PBs are more like blaster/tanker/defender, WS's are more like blaster/tanker/controller.
SoAs are tankmages. One tree goes more stealthy, the other tree goes more pets.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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It's been a while since I've played my SoA, but generally Crabs are seen as tough, good AoE damage and good debuffs, whereas Banes are more like a stalker lite. Both have good to excellent team buffs, and they can doubled up Leadership which is seen as a big boost to teams.
Both have the option of making a "Huntsman", where you keep the gun attacks from the pre-24 levels. I can't give you specifics on DPS but a lot of folks prefer this approach. It's like a 3-in-1 AT. Plus, with 2nd builds, you can have both a Bane and a Crab.
The other SoAs are Fortunatas and Night Widows. NW are like claws/SR scrappers, with less damage but again good team buffs. Forts are Psi blasters with less damage and better personal defense. Both have good team buffs. Both can double up on Leadership like all SoA. Once Mind Link is perma (fairly easy on NW and only somewhat harder on Forts) their team buffs are also pretty much over the top.
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Originally Posted by The MFing Warshade
So what the hell is The MFing Warshade?
I know that's what you're thinking. As mentioned earlier, The MFing Warshade is not a build or even a certain play style. It is a state of mind. It is one that embraces the jack-of-all-trades nature of the beast and makes the most of it. It is one that never stops and never fears. It is one that can fit any role and sometimes all of them. It is one that, in its prime, causes the team to pause for a moment of reverence and think to themselves, "Wow, that is one MFing warshade." At its height, The MFing Warshade will have 300% damage bonus, 85% resist all, well over 50% tohit bonus, three damage dealing pets in tow, a ranged AoE attack chain, and the ability to refill both bars more often than I blink. It can also perma stun ten targets, perma hold one, and even stun bosses in a single shot. It has mez protection with an 80% hitpoints bonus on demand. It can even shrug off defeat twice every five minutes. |
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i have a full on aerial assault Crab who focuses on massive AoE from range and a Huntsman build bane who opens up with AoEs before moving in closer. Both are quite fun for me.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Both have the option of making a "Huntsman", where you keep the gun attacks from the pre-24 levels. I can't give you specifics on DPS but a lot of folks prefer this approach. It's like a 3-in-1 AT. Plus, with 2nd builds, you can have both a Bane and a Crab.
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| The other SoAs are Fortunatas and Night Widows. NW are like claws/SR scrappers, with less damage but again good team buffs. Forts are Psi blasters with less damage and better personal defense. Both have good team buffs. Both can double up on Leadership like all SoA. Once Mind Link is perma (fairly easy on NW and only somewhat harder on Forts) their team buffs are also pretty much over the top. |
And from what i've read well built Night Widows are more like Claws/SR Scrappers with even more damage and good team buffs.
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I have a level 50+3 Fort with perma-Hasten and perma Mind Link, and I'd hesitate to compare a Fort to a Dom. The Fort AoE controls are on very long timers (5 minutes, base, I believe) and even with perma-Hasten those AoE controls take like 1 minute 30 seconds to recharge. (I'm going from memory here, not looking at Mids or the character).|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Fortunatas are closer to Mind/Psi Doms with powerful team buffs than Blasters in my experience. At least mine uses a fair bit of control in addition to psi blasts and buffs.
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The way I use my Fort is more like a blaster. I go for damage. I can control in a pinch, but so can a Psi blaster (their control powers are almost identical to the Forts). So I go for the blaster comparison. It's not 100% accurate, but it does I think communicate the role of the Fort well.
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| And from what i've read well built Night Widows are more like Claws/SR Scrappers with even more damage and good team buffs. |
BTW, I have four SoA for role-play purposes mostly, but if you don't want to level that many, you can just use the second build to get the other half. Get a Fort, and 2nd build as a Night Widow. Ditto with Crab/Bane. If you like one much better, then you can respec both builds to be the same.
And in case you are wondering why they bring up Arachnos Widows -
The term "Soldiers of Arachnos" applies to both Arachnos Soldiers and Arachnos Widows.
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Fair enough. Admittedly most of my use of controls is single target hold and confuse when soloing, so on teams i do play my Fort more like a more durable softcapped Blaster with Defender level team buffs as well.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
I have a level 50+3 Fort with perma-Hasten and perma Mind Link, and I'd hesitate to compare a Fort to a Dom. The Fort AoE controls are on very long timers (5 minutes, base, I believe) and even with perma-Hasten those AoE controls take like 1 minute 30 seconds to recharge. (I'm going from memory here, not looking at Mids or the character).
The way I use my Fort is more like a blaster. I go for damage. I can control in a pinch, but so can a Psi blaster (their control powers are almost identical to the Forts). So I go for the blaster comparison. It's not 100% accurate, but it does I think communicate the role of the Fort well. |
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| Again, my level 50 NW probably doesn't do as much damage as a scrapper. I'd have to double check, but I think base damage is less, and the crits are only from hide, and the crits add 50% damage, not 100% like a scrapper. NW are fun but they're not quite as versatile as Forts imo. |
Night Widows are particularly effective against Carnies, or at least that's been my experience due to the combination of high lethal damage and softcapped positional Defense and strong psionic defenses.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Shameless self plug: What you really want is an MFing Warshade.
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* WARNING: MFing Warshades can be addictive.
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Yeah, I don't mind any of that. I just wanna know about both EATs before I start creating some. So, any and all info on them helps. |
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
And in case you are wondering why they bring up Arachnos Widows -
The term "Soldiers of Arachnos" applies to both Arachnos Soldiers and Arachnos Widows. |
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To be honest there's not much point trying to separate between the two, Forts sit somewhere between Blasters and Domis (and where depends on playstyle), and then get the aforementioned Team Buffs lobbed in on top. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Fair enough. Admittedly most of my use of controls is single target hold and confuse when soloing, so on teams i do play my Fort more like a more durable softcapped Blaster with Defender level team buffs as well.
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Night Widows are again somewhere between a scrapper and a stalker in terms of playstyle (although in fairness the scapper/stalker playstyle gap has narrowed a lot recently). You do get the option of sticking some cone attacks on top of that too
Both are pretty fun though, especially with Dual Builds allowing to to flit between them.
All the SoAs get access to Tank and Brute APP/PPPs I think (or is it just the PPPs?). My Fort build has Gloom and Dark Oblit as well as Darkest night. Her NW alter-ego went with Mu (but honestly doesn't use it much)
You'd find everything you need to know in those AT's respective forums, whether through searching the threads or making your own and asking specific questions about each.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Fair enough. Admittedly most of my use of controls is single target hold and confuse when soloing, so on teams i do play my Fort more like a more durable softcapped Blaster with Defender level team buffs as well.
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This is a good point. Solo, I play my Fort a lot like I play my controller. Control first, damage second. It's ungodly safe, and that's on top of my very high defenses. Confuse does not break Mask Presence, so you can easily confuse a spawn of 3 or 4 before becoming visible to attack.
On a team, you're more of a buffer plus damage. And you have some AoE control for emergencies. I try to hit as much of the team as possible with Mind Link (without the "group hug") and then toss AoEs at the spawn.
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| Ah, well my estimate of Night Widow damage was based on a performance comparison thread in the Scrapper forums from about a year ago which mentioned that Night Widows could achieve higher DPS than a Claws/SR along with better defenses and strong team buffs. |
This may be true, but I expect it's not out of the box for a NW. Probably a fairly high end build. It's fair to bring up, but it might be misleading to tell folks NW are higher DPS than Scrappers, because until you get all the buffs you won't be (I assume).
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I have two high-end Night Widows and they are indeed awesome. They play a lot like a claws/SR scrapper with less hit points but inherent stealth and great team buffs, and are easy to softcap defensively. One of my favorite ATs to play, which is why I have two now. ^_^
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
This may be true, but I expect it's not out of the box for a NW. Probably a fairly high end build. It's fair to bring up, but it might be misleading to tell folks NW are higher DPS than Scrappers, because until you get all the buffs you won't be (I assume).
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I'm not sure to be honest. My NW isn't high end at all, middle of the road at best (frankenslotted mosly with a few set bonuses and one or two LOTG) and she's got excellent single target damage.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
This is a good point. Solo, I play my Fort a lot like I play my controller. Control first, damage second. It's ungodly safe, and that's on top of my very high defenses. Confuse does not break Mask Presence, so you can easily confuse a spawn of 3 or 4 before becoming visible to attack.
On a team, you're more of a buffer plus damage. And you have some AoE control for emergencies. I try to hit as much of the team as possible with Mind Link (without the "group hug") and then toss AoEs at the spawn. This may be true, but I expect it's not out of the box for a NW. Probably a fairly high end build. It's fair to bring up, but it might be misleading to tell folks NW are higher DPS than Scrappers, because until you get all the buffs you won't be (I assume). |
I think the difference is the ridiculous single target DPA attacks she has. I mean you get most of the attacks from Claws, which all have decent DPA, and then you get Lunge on top of it.
So I wouldn't say she's got better DPA than a scrapper, but it's very, very nice overall.
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This is certainly true. I don't like to get into "X is better than Y" because that argument is subjective. But NW are fun, and their single target damage is certainly darn good. It's more about what you like to play. But NW have the crit from hide mechanic, which is fun, great team buffs and their ST damage does not suck. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
So I wouldn't say she's got better DPA than a scrapper, but it's very, very nice overall.
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Is that "better?" Maybe, or not depending on the player. I just say NW are worthy in their own right.
I've made a bane/huntsman, a NW/Fortunata, and a PB (human form and dual form).
As far as SoA go, one of the funnest parts is their utility. My bane plays like a scrapper/stalker, except with a lot of pets and ranged AoE attacks. The power Surveillance is a great debuff, but it has the hidden aspect of revealing the enemies stats. This is invaluable during AE arcs, where the final AV may have Rise to the Challenge or something that you need to play around. Though he didn't get all of the leadership powers, since I needed to make room for all the other stuff he does. The huntsman build for him does, however, have double leadership and vengeance. The damage output isn't as high, but increasing the whole team's defense by 20% by himself more than makes up for it. Although the huntsman can't solo an AV like the bane can.
The NW also plays like a scrapper/stalker, except they have great mezz protection/resistance, and a really high psionic resistance. I have a lot of fun with the smoke grenade power, and it has uses since it greatly decreases the aggro range of whomever it hits. Mind Link and Maneuvers gives the whole team a lot of defense, as well as psionic resistance. My fortunata build is slightly strange in the sense that it is built solely around the nukes. The AoE mezz and AoE damage powers are set up to recharge as fast as possible, and with all of them it essentially lets me have the enemy group constantly be either nuked or disabled. Though the NW can't do that, the NW has enough damage output to solo an AV.
The PB is a jack of all trades. PBs learn pretty much every kind of attack, and this is a great thing if you have the recharge to back it up. The KB is fun, and comes in handy strangely. You'll need to build it for recharge, but if you can do so you can accomplish things like permanent lightform (85% resists to everything), permanent inner light (30% damage boost with 100% surges in damage) permanent essence boost (+400 Max HP with bursts of 800 heal). You can heal others and yourself rather easily, and all of your powers have -defense so you can help against tougher targets. I haven't tested my PBs offensive power, but their defensive power is high enough that I was able to tank the UG trial. If you want to actually see my PB in action, the three trial guide videos I have at the bottom all feature my PB doing her thing. /shamelessplug
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
So, because of my alt-itis, I've been wanting to create a Peacebringer and a Soldier of Arachnos. I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on any of these 2 archetypes? Maybe, some pros and cons of each. I wanna see what they're both like before I start making them into projects. (i.e.- Differences between Crab and Bane Spider, how the different PB builds work, what powers to take and/or avoid, etc, etc.)
Thank you,
Polypro Ninja