Oil Slick Arrow "Afraid" Bug
By
Codewalker,
Posted on: 2012-02-16 11:51 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I've deleted my Demon/TA MM because frankly the set was just pretty worthless, even after I got her fully IO'd and all iPowers to T4. Otherwise, I'd test this again.
However, in the last few months I did play her, I don't recall a single time when my Demons ran out of OSA or it failed to light. Yes, that's anecdotal but the set was SO VERY WEAK that I tended to notice little problems with it a LOT to the point I became OCD with ******** about it. I think I'd have noticed if my pets ran out of OSA....as they + OSA were about the only two damaging attacks I had.
/em shrug
I'll take your word that its broken but personally, never experienced either effect.
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Maybe at the time. Now? Not by a long shot. |
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Oil Slick Arrow, Castle explained to us, is perhaps the single most complicated power in the game,
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| and suffers from the fact that the game engine doesn't handle it well when a pseudo-pet uses a power that spawns yet another pseudo-pet. |
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| One is the Oil Slick itself. It is friendly to the caster, hostile to the caster's enemies. It targets any hostile within the sphere every two (I think?) seconds with a chance to knockdown. It also targets any hostile within the sphere with a movement slow effect. It also targets any hostile within the sphere with a defense debuff effect. It also targets any hostile NPC within the sphere with an Afraid status attack: the urge to run in a straight line directly away from the center of the sphere until outside the sphere. |
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| [*]When the Target pseudo-pet dies (to hostile damage only, not when its timer expires), it does two things: it kills the Oil Slick pseudo-pet, and it spawns a new Flaming Oil Slick pseudo-pet. |
It was probably done to avoid the unreliability of a dead entity summoning something, which ironically I think was just fixed for Beam Rifle's Disintegration spread to work right (and which many Kinetics users are immensely grateful for).
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| [*]The Flaming Oil Slick Pseudo-Pet has all of the same powers as the Oil Slick: defense debuff, movement slow, recurring chance to knockdown, and afraid status. However, it also has a fire damage (or damage over time?) proc that goes off every 2 (I think?) seconds.[/list] |
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Bug number two: the Afraid status attack from the Flaming Oil Slick affects all NPCs, not just hostile ones. This one is not intermittent; it happens every time. I beggars belief to think that bug number two can't be fixed, because the Flaming Oil Slick knows not to slow friendly targets. It knows not to defense-debuff friendly targets. It knows not to burn friendly targets. How does it NOT know not to "afraid" status attack friendly targets? |
So if there's a bug, I don't think it's on the power design side, which looks solid. Possibly an engine bug with the Avoid effect itself? Note that this is not the Afraid status that powers like Hot Feet or Arctic Air use, it's a different one called Avoid. Perhaps changing it to Afraid would work around the issue in an acceptable way.
There's only a handful of other powers that use Avoid: Blizzard, Ice Storm, Rain of Fire, and Sleet. I'm curious, do these also cause friendly NPCs to run out of them?
As Codewalker stated, the first bug has been fixed. I believe it was Black Scorpion that fixed it during Issue 18 beta and I haven't experienced it failing ever since.
The second one... I know pets go crazy when Oil Slick gets lit, but I really have no explanation for why. The "Foes Affected" field lists "Foe" so it should only affect NPC enemies (players aren't affected by Avoid). Unfortunately, I have seen Fire Imps stop what they're doing the moment Oil Slick gets lit on fire, run just to the point where they're outside of the AoE of the flames, and do nothing until the Oil Slick's lifetime ends.
It's one of those weird bugs where I'd normally think someone was exaggerating when they explained it to me if I didn't see it so often myself (and have to apologize for it over teamspeak :B).
Just chiming in as yet another person giving you the official answer to bug number 1: It does not exist anymore. It will always light.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
I've got a Ninja/TA Mastermind, and when I run SSA 2 and have to take out the Final Boss, I use Oil Slick Arrow. It lights every time, and my Ninjas are (reliably) terrified of standing in it while it's on fire.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Bug #2 definitely still occurs for my fire/trick arrow controller 100% of the time. When the imps are standing in the slick and it gets lit, they run to the edge.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
Since Synapse was the guest on this week's Coffee Talk, I brought up an old, old bug, one that I try to bring up with the dev team about once a year. Imagine my annoyance that Synapse doesn't even remember that this bug exists. So I guess it's time to review this, in writing.
Note, by the way, that there are actually two bugs with Oil Slick Arrow: intermittent failure to ignite, and the fact that it causes friendly NPCs, as well as hostile ones, to go "Afraid" and try to run out of the ignited slick.
Oil Slick Arrow, Castle explained to us, is perhaps the single most complicated power in the game, and suffers from the fact that the game engine doesn't handle it well when a pseudo-pet uses a power that spawns yet another pseudo-pet. Here, as best as it has been explained to us, is how Oil Slick Arrow really works:
- You fire OSA at a spot on the ground. Upon activation, the game engine creates two pseudo-pets.
- One is the Oil Slick itself. It is friendly to the caster, hostile to the caster's enemies. It targets any hostile within the sphere every two (I think?) seconds with a chance to knockdown. It also targets any hostile within the sphere with a movement slow effect. It also targets any hostile within the sphere with a defense debuff effect. It also targets any hostile NPC within the sphere with an Afraid status attack: the urge to run in a straight line directly away from the center of the sphere until outside the sphere.
- The other is the Target pseudo-pet, spawned slightly above the center of the oil slick pseudo pet. It has no attacks of its own. As far as I know, it can't be missed when attacked? It is immune to all damage types except energy and fire. It has 1 hit point.
- When the Target pseudo-pet dies (to hostile damage only, not when its timer expires), it does two things: it kills the Oil Slick pseudo-pet, and it spawns a new Flaming Oil Slick pseudo-pet.
- The Flaming Oil Slick Pseudo-Pet has all of the same powers as the Oil Slick: defense debuff, movement slow, recurring chance to knockdown, and afraid status. However, it also has a fire damage (or damage over time?) proc that goes off every 2 (I think?) seconds.
Bug number one: sometimes killing the Target fails to spawn the Flaming Oil Slick pseudo-pet. There was a bug fix that reduced this happening, a while back, and it hasn't happened to me lately, but some users are still reporting it happening occasionally. Yes, I know, intermittent bugs are a pain to debug.Bug number two: the Afraid status attack from the Flaming Oil Slick affects all NPCs, not just hostile ones. This one is not intermittent; it happens every time.
I beggars belief to think that bug number two can't be fixed, because the Flaming Oil Slick knows not to slow friendly targets. It knows not to defense-debuff friendly targets. It knows not to burn friendly targets. How does it NOT know not to "afraid" status attack friendly targets?
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This bug goes all the way back to issue 5, at the very least; it has been a problem for Trick Arrow masterminds for as long as there have been Trick Arrow masterminds. This means that the only masterminds that can use Trick Arrows are those that either only use ranged pets (roboticists, mostly, although mercs are also mostly possible) or who skip the single best power in the powerset.
I bring this up now, because, we're about to get the first new mastermind primary powerset since Thugs, and even more than Thugs (and even more than Ninjas), it is a melee minion only powerset. Worse luck, it's one that fits, thematically, with Trick Arrows. Which means that as soon as the first Beasts/Arrows mastermind hits level 35, they're going to have to re-roll in a fit of rage, or else give up on OSA, just like just about every ninjas/arrows or thugs/arrows or demons/arrows mastermind already does.
Can we please get this fixed? Sooner would be better than later, but for crying out loud, can we at least get it back onto the priority bug fix list even if it's at the bottom, so that the guy in charge of powersets at least knows that the bug exists?