I have a Claws/Fire because I already had a couple of SS toons with different secondaries. I don't know about the exact numbers but since my Claws/Fire is fast enough and fun that's what I use.
I think that you need to pick a farming toon that you enjoy playing since you will be on it so much. This is why I am going to make a Staff/Fire Brute for farming because it is fun.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I'll pm u later tonight or tommorrow when I get on ukase, I can test this for you but Yoshima doesn't have that mission. My initial thought would be no its not worth the time since you already have the tank, however a well built ss/fa is such a beast once it gets rolling, anyway worth testing as I'm curious to how much faster a brute is than a tank.
Either I misrepresented the question or you misunderstood.
I do have a fire/fire tank -true.
But, I also have a fire/fire/energy brute.
My SS/FA is now level 30. Just wondering if it was that much better than the brute.
Given the nerf to AE tickets lately, probably not.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Side note, if the ss seems lackluster its because you don't have footstomp yet at 30.
I'd say that you're plenty fine as an F/FA broot if all you're interested in is having a moderately fast farming experience and an enjoyable teaming experience, but what I think is being ignored here (and on the forums at large) is just how great a properly built SS/FA is in regular content.
With my SS/FA I've completely solo'd the MoITF, a whole load of pylons, breezed through everything at 2/8 other than Arachnos (they're a pain in the ****, but I'm fine with them if I'm willing to chug inspirations), and can safely tank the majority of things if needed by teams whilst still outputting giant damage. It's a pretty excellent combination for proper team play if built correctly, unfortunately we mainly just see utterly gimped 'farm' builds so people end up thinking that all SS/FA is good for is farming. Built for 32.5% positional defense, it can basically take on everything (other than GMs; we're not ill/rad!). It goes without saying that it's also ludicrous in farms -- less than 2 minutes for a full entrance and ambushes clear in FIRE! -- but that's besides the point I'm trying to make.
I'm coming up on 700hrs just with SS/FA: it's that awesome. But if you're finding your fire/fire good enough for what you want to do, then stick with it. It's still plenty good DPS, so if you're farming fast enough for your current needs then you're farming fast enough.
edit: As a side note, it doesn't take fifty hours to get an SS/FA to 50, it actually took me 6 via self-PLing with AE.
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SS/FA is more survivable than a fm/fa, due to knockdown/stun/holds. The fire/fire does quite a lot more damages.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Either I misrepresented the question or you misunderstood.
I do have a fire/fire tank -true. But, I also have a fire/fire/energy brute. My SS/FA is now level 30. Just wondering if it was that much better than the brute. Given the nerf to AE tickets lately, probably not. |
If you're tooled up, the fire/fire is likely plenty survivable, although fa is not super durable on a brute, compared to a tank.
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I find that really, really unlikely. Double rage + fiery embrace makes my knockout blow strike AVs for roughly 1.5k damage. For one hit. Footstomp does around 400-500 and burn's initial burst damage, not even factoring in DoT, is over 600. I'm almost always above 280% damage bonus.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
The fire/fire does quite a lot more damages.
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If Fire/Fire does more damage, I'd love to see how.
SS/Fire is king of purple farming aswell. Im softcapped to S/L on mine and i just run my def toggles to save on endurance. at 0x8 and running rage and reds that drop footstomp wipes out everything and burn kills bosses - simples
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Thanks to all of you who took the time to give me your insight.
Descend -- Obviously, you meant level 32 for footstomp, but we won't hold that against you. 
Mauk2 -I think, in the context of farming, the fire/fire brute is more survivable than the fire/fire tank. Both have the same fire resistance, but the brute deals out more damage. As for SS vs Fire, your pointing out the stun,kd, hold - that is an aspect I hadn't taken into account.
Aneurysmo - Obviously, I could PL my toon, but since I've never used Superstrength powerset before, that would make me a pretty inept player, not knowing if I need to slot more for end recovery or accuracy. Besides, even if I got my toon level bumped, I still need to get my toon the accolades. Even a speed synapse tf is gonna take 40 minutes. The formation of the tfs takes time, in forming of iTrials on my server takes almost as much as the trial itself except on weekend evenings. One thing I don't need to do is powerlevel. If I miss all the agony of leveling up, I could easily forget to choose one power sooner over another.
Black-Assassin - Purple Farming? Any content level 47 and up run at */8 is purple farming, correct? My fire/fire performs as you describe, only I run at +4/8 because I want more inf, prestige and the little extra I get for the resell of level 53 enhancements.
Here is a tentative build, just in case any glaring errors pop out. With the new ATOs, this will probably get the Armegeddons removed from footstomp in favor of the brute ATO set. (and they will have the catalyst used on them)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1523;708;1416;HEX;| |78DA65945B4F135110C7CFB25B8152A4B55C0AF48ED0D2D295724BBC852888D140A| |CD4F8669A02C776154AD9DD4678F4C12FE0833EE867F0CDBBDFC3C4F815BC3CF8E6| |659DEEFC294DBA69F33B67CECCECFFCC9CB31B87ABBE57D71F2F0BA56F65B76C59A| |5AB66C3969E8D72C5D816F4786F6DD90D4BC637E561374DC7DCE5D286DC95522F36| |EAD22C156D53D62A7635C44BABF2BEAC59525F33A47954BAD230CB811BB5AA241F5| |B3F1E780BFBFBBB7AB12EE58ECF1DAECB72DDA855FADDC99A51A9DA341B385EDA91| |A65535EA816B75635B2F1C99F4FEB26553FA1029CAD03FA9083C8E260A4D8326BA6| |E839B4CED0E73E6499710794DBC6EBABB718E47446990229F04F354129C60F6CCA9| |6E4C7C84E6114DBC6986726C97B227DCB59E03A6F711F32D41852635CCF1BE08186| |59E8E817166924AECE1BC8A27CB79FCE024D9BB399FA73BC57BF0A79967A6C10C73| |30CB1CC35E8729B017797BFD0AEB1C6236B7D8C779D53ED42E8CDA8551BB6891394| |179FAD957F47FE5DCEF6936C0B9D501D47118750CA18E21D4314508B8457794C04B| |8A0F92C617CC0F640DF29A1A34B08F07CCE843708FA9908E21681E82E6043427A03| |9817EABE43B027D23D0178F3173D099834E8D7C47D1D751D4298E3ACD0C323FD2EA| |38FA30FE9BF59CFDC39CFA0BFE031D664A707F03943F823E44903785BCD38418F2C| |6CE73DCC405F0227809EFBB0CA2BF9F5A77C05192382F39708AEC93C83B5963FFE9| |7DB00E1E30332668313F93EC34FA9D5E2268AAF8E513220B5BD6B509F185FC749C7| |57D8E63CFCD830BE02233BFC47C47DEB3AC59CC2E720DC25AEB1EABC7F778187DCD| |A3AF79F43573E24B3F7AC46C8725DF6199EFB02C7458D6B4D697C159EF582D68582| |48BE25A7AFDAD9BEE7CF3B6BE0C42C971077E9CD814E52E4ED34D3E71DFDBFDD3EC| |FFD3DBF675798A8E3CC7497AC6DCF2BA8ADC7716DAC6F7DAC6E5B6F17290C230FE0| |F196AE090| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Quote:
So....|
Originally Posted by Aneurysmo
I find that really, really unlikely. Double rage + fiery embrace makes my knockout blow strike AVs for roughly 1.5k damage. For one hit. Footstomp does around 400-500 and burn's initial burst damage, not even factoring in DoT, is over 600. I'm almost always above 280% damage bonus.
If Fire/Fire does more damage, I'd love to see how. |
Super Strength is doing more damage than fire, while ALSO adding more survivability? How is that fair to fire melee?
Isn't fire supposed to do more damage? Because it's "the best at damage"? And it pays for having the best damage by losing its mitigation?
And yet, super strength beats it handily?
Fire needs a buff.
Fire armor already had to be heavily buffed to get it in front of shield defense, it sounds like fire melee needs another look at too.
Hello? Devs? Why is fire melee eclipsed IN DAMAGE by a heavy-mitigation set like super strength, or street justice?
Quote:
It depends on the map.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Mauk2 -I think, in the context of farming, the fire/fire brute is more survivable than the fire/fire tank. Both have the same fire resistance, but the brute deals out more damage. As for SS vs Fire, your pointing out the stun,kd, hold - that is an aspect I hadn't taken into account. |
Many AE maps use under-strength baddies, to avoid the worst survivability problems. To get to 100 percent rewards, it's almost a given you need to give AE baddies defenses or to-hit buffs.
If they get bonuses to-hit, a tankers edge is very noticeable. In 'live' maps, your point stands.
Also, have the Dev's tweaked MARTy? (frowns at results on screen)
Quote:
I don't think MARTy comes out unless there's some seriously extreme circumstances. A tier 4 judgement is about as much damage as any of us can expect to dish out - if that doesn't bring MARTy out, what would?
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Originally Posted by mauk2
It depends on the map.
Many AE maps use under-strength baddies, to avoid the worst survivability problems. To get to 100 percent rewards, it's almost a given you need to give AE baddies defenses or to-hit buffs. If they get bonuses to-hit, a tankers edge is very noticeable. In 'live' maps, your point stands. Also, have the Dev's tweaked MARTy? (frowns at results on screen) |
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Yeah I know you get footstomp at 32. You said the toon was level 30. It all comes down to if you can handle the rage crash, some cant. Fire will do more consistant damage becuase there isn't a period of no damage. But ss will do more damage overall.
Quote:
Yeah, SS just basically overpowers everything in terms of damage, but as others have said, it's not that SS itself is good, but that rage adds 160% damage bonus when double stacked. At a steady 80% fury (which isn't too hard to achieve on SS/FA), an SS/FA will be permanently at 320% damage.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
So....
Super Strength is doing more damage than fire, while ALSO adding more survivability? How is that fair to fire melee? Isn't fire supposed to do more damage? Because it's "the best at damage"? And it pays for having the best damage by losing its mitigation? And yet, super strength beats it handily? Fire needs a buff. Fire armor already had to be heavily buffed to get it in front of shield defense, it sounds like fire melee needs another look at too. Hello? Devs? Why is fire melee eclipsed IN DAMAGE by a heavy-mitigation set like super strength, or street justice? |
But SS does have its extreme downside: endurance. It's a heinously endurance heavy powerset. I'm talking full bar to nothing in 8 seconds at 50 with an SS/FA, if you go all out. It really requires T4 Ageless to be worth having, otherwise it just isn't possible to get the benefits I previously mentioned (because it forces you to ignore survivability and build solely for recharge; if you don't have T4 Ageless, you need Consume to be popping up continuously).
There's already a downside built in to SS. Yeah, it has much better damage than everything else, but it has far nastier endurance issues. Really, pick what you're willing to put up with. If you're willing to put up with lower damage in a trade for steadier endurance, then go fire. If you want the absolute highest damage for absolutely retarded endurance consumption (Knockout Blow alone takes one fifth of your blue bar per activation -- same with Foot Stomp), then go SS.
SS isn't a heavy mitigation set, it's a heavy damage set with a little bit of mitigation (good luck using a low level KD in Foot Stomp to mitigate AVs or even most bosses...), but that nice package comes at the cost of endurance consumption that's unmanageable without either gimping one's build or going for Ageless.
EDIT:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Aneurysmo - Obviously, I could PL my toon, but since I've never used Superstrength powerset before, that would make me a pretty inept player, not knowing if I need to slot more for end recovery or accuracy. Besides, even if I got my toon level bumped, I still need to get my toon the accolades. Even a speed synapse tf is gonna take 40 minutes. The formation of the tfs takes time, in forming of iTrials on my server takes almost as much as the trial itself except on weekend evenings. One thing I don't need to do is powerlevel. If I miss all the agony of leveling up, I could easily forget to choose one power sooner over another.
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If you're just looking for us to talk you into making a decision you've already made i.e. to play your SS/FA again, then you don't need our advice. Do whatever you find most enjoyable. If you want us to tell you which is a better farmer, then that's SS/FA, but as I mentioned, for your needs (sporadic farming every week), F/FA is more than good enough. We're not debating MA/FA vs SS/FA farming here: we're debating two very top-notch AoE melee attackers. If you're fine with what you've got, then why change it?
I am aware that for farming and powerleveling and such that because of rage, the SS/FA Brute is considered to be better than Fire/Fire.
What I am not aware of is how much better. I currently have an incarnated Fire/Fire/Energy Brute.
What I am curious about - looking at no other criteria besides time - would it really be worth it to make an SS/FA Brute if I'm only "farming" a council mission 10 times a week and doing AE for max tickets about once a week. (9999, not 1500 per map)
My toons are not "just" farmers though. My brute has taunt, and has all the accolades that impact endurance and health.
So, compared to say....50 hours to level a brute up to 50, and possibly, depending on the rng another 20-30 hours of trialing to get the t4 in lore, judgement, interface and 2 Destiny powers.
If I'm not distracted by tells, I don't think it takes my brute much more than 15-20 minutes to get through the council map at +4/8. (the one with the drums in the background.)
Is SS/FA so much faster that instead of 15 minutes, I'd get through in 5? 10? Or would it be more like 12?
Is there a statistically valid way to compare these 2 different primaries?
I know a lot depends on the attack chain and recharge rate. The SS seems to have superior ST damage, but it also seems to have superior endurance usage.
If I'm playing this game for long enough to grind out this farm for another 1000 runs - is using SS/FA over Fire/Fire going to save me 150 hours? (accolades, incarnate grind, tf's, etc.)
In short, given a "Standard" attack chain for a softcapped to s/l defense SS/FA brute, is it going to get through that map 9 minutes faster than the F/F brute I have now?
I ask this because the SS/FA I have now is level 24, and so far, I'm not impressed. I am going to play it until level 35, just to see how it does with burn, tough and weave, and maneuvers, but if anyone has played both and has some insight, I'd like to hear it.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase