I think of blasters being able to easily reach their hp cap as a feature, personally. Granted, this does make Hoarfrost an odd power to have in the Cold pool. But I don't think the reasoning for buffing the Stalker HP cap applies to Blasters here.
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It applies in every way. Stalkers and blasters have the same job (damage) and the same HP base and the same HP cap. If one were to have their HP cap raised, for the reasoning that it is easy to reach making certain buffs worthless, why wouldn't the other set get the same?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I think of blasters being able to easily reach their hp cap as a feature, personally. Granted, this does make Hoarfrost an odd power for them to have in the Cold pool. But I don't think the reasoning for buffing the Stalker HP cap applies to Blasters here.
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Because blasters don't HAVE those buffs.|
Originally Posted by MallNinja
It applies in every way. Stalkers and blasters have the same job (damage) and the same HP base and the same HP cap. If one were to have their HP cap raised, for the reasoning that it is easy to reach making certain buffs worthless, why wouldn't the other set get the same?
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How many stalker secondaries have HP buffs? Four out of eight. Three of the four HP buffs put a stalker over the current cap with no accolades or slotting at all. This is a serious limitation to the usefulness of core powers. It's not "we can reach the hp cap with a good build, could you raise it?" so much as "did you even know what our powers were when you chose our hp cap?" A very large fraction of stalker builds run into the HP cap, hard.
How many blaster primaries or secondaries have HP buffs? Zero. Blasters have access to two HP buffs: Rebirth Core (which almost nobody uses anyway because it's terrible) and Hoarfrost, in an epic pool.
What is the purpose of a cap if not to cap something?
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The Devs don't consider simply solo factors. There are outside buffs that raise total hit points (like Frostworks) these are a waste to use on stalkers and blasters (the ATs that actually benefit most from team buffs) at the moment. If the devs plan on adding more of these type powers then the blaster HP cap should be looked at as well.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Because blasters don't HAVE those buffs.
How many stalker secondaries have HP buffs? Four out of eight. Three of the four HP buffs put a stalker over the current cap with no accolades or slotting at all. This is a serious limitation to the usefulness of core powers. It's not "we can reach the hp cap with a good build, could you raise it?" so much as "did you even know what our powers were when you chose our hp cap?" A very large fraction of stalker builds run into the HP cap, hard. How many blaster primaries or secondaries have HP buffs? Zero. Blasters have access to two HP buffs: Rebirth Core (which almost nobody uses anyway because it's terrible) and Hoarfrost, in an epic pool. What is the purpose of a cap if not to cap something? |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Well, I don't know, I'm making pretty decent progress to my healing badges with rebirth core. |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
How many blaster primaries or secondaries have HP buffs? Zero. Blasters have access to two HP buffs: Rebirth Core (which almost nobody uses anyway because it's terrible) and Hoarfrost, in an epic pool.
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A thought occurs to me. Since blaster's HP buff is in an epic pool instead of either a primary or secondary then doesn't that almost make it easier for a blaster to get a HP buff than stalkers? I mean I'm aware that's a bit of a stretch, but still any blaster that wanted to could get Hoarfrost. It's relatively easy to pop in and out epic pools whenever you want after all.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Frostwork, as far as I know, is the only one besides Rebirth Core. It's also a single-target buff. I can count on my fingers the number of times I've ever had anyone put Frostwork on me, across all my characters (admittedly, that's probably partially due to me not noticing). Most ATs cannot benefit fully from Frostwork due to their HP caps, but they're not getting their caps raised either.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
The Devs don't consider simply solo factors. There are outside buffs that raise total hit points (like Frostworks) these are a waste to use on stalkers and blasters (the ATs that actually benefit most from team buffs) at the moment. If the devs plan on adding more of these type powers then the blaster HP cap should be looked at as well.
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Originally Posted by Oliin
Since blaster's HP buff is in an epic pool instead of either a primary or secondary then doesn't that almost make it easier for a blaster to get a HP buff than stalkers?
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Again, what is the purpose of a cap if not to cap something? Other than Hoarfrost, the cap does not severely limit the usefulness of any blaster powers, and I'd rather see Hoarfrost changed (say, to a heal/resist buff instead of heal/hp buff, which functionally is very similar anyway) than the health cap.
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My point basically being that any blaster regardless of what primary or secondary they've chosen can take Hoarfrost. If a blaster has chosen not to take the cold mastery epic pool they could change their mind and easily respec into it. On the other hand not all stalkers can take self +max HP powers (outside of rebirth).|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
No, it doesn't make it easier. An /ice or /regen stalker can go past their current HP cap at level 4 with no slotting, and later can pretty easily make that perma. A blaster cannot take Hoarfrost until 41 at earliest, and requires considerably more recharge to make it perma.
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| Again, what is the purpose of a cap if not to cap something? |
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If for some reason you think that last bit was a serious comment please think again.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Doms get Hoarfrost and Trollers get Earth's Embrace so they obviously should be buffed too, my fire kin hits the cap with only rech slotting >:/
(j/k I don't think Ats should have HP caps raised because of one epic power)
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The issue isn't the HP cap being raised, or really just the one power personally. It's more that way back blasters got a significant HP boost, but their HP cap wasn't changed at all. This wasn't much of an issue since there wasn't a way to buff their HP cap at the time. Currently though with accolades and a couple IOs (about 90 hps from 5 bonuses) I'm 66hp away from the blaster HP cap on my energy/dev.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Doms get Hoarfrost and Trollers get Earth's Embrace so they obviously should be buffed too, my fire kin hits the cap with only rech slotting >:/
(j/k I don't think Ats should have HP caps raised because of one epic power) |
It's just absurdly easy to cap a blaster's HPs as compared to (with the buff for stalkers going in) every other AT. What's so special about blasters that they have to be penalized like that? What would be harmed by bringing their HP cap in line with the other ATs?
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Like you said, blasters got their HP raised a long time ago, but not their cap. I don't think that was an accident. Thus, I think of being able to easily cap a blaster's HP as a feature, not a problem.
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At the time there was also no real way for a blaster to easily get to that cap so it was a non-issue. If there's no way for them to easily get to the HP cap then why bother raising it right? Now that there is why shouldn't it be revisited?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Like you said, blasters got their HP raised a long time ago, but not their cap. I don't think that was an accident. Thus, I think of being able to easily cap a blaster's HP as a feature, not a problem.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Originally Posted by Oliin
The issue isn't the HP cap being raised, or really just the one power personally. It's more that way back blasters got a significant HP boost, but their HP cap wasn't changed at all. This wasn't much of an issue since there wasn't a way to buff their HP cap at the time. Currently though with accolades and a couple IOs (about 90 hps from 5 bonuses) I'm 66hp away from the blaster HP cap on my energy/dev.
It's just absurdly easy to cap a blaster's HPs as compared to (with the buff for stalkers going in) every other AT. What's so special about blasters that they have to be penalized like that? What would be harmed by bringing their HP cap in line with the other ATs? |
Still trying to get my head around your logic here. Or, lack of it. How is blasters being the easiest AT when it comes to hitting the hp cap..a PENALTY? Oh darn it, I was slotting my blaster for acc, rech and def, and I hit the hp cap AGAIN! Poor me.
As people are saying, stalkers can also hit the cap as easy, but have a larger number of secondary powers that give +hp..that do nothing but a heal with the current cap. Listening there? Secondary powers. Not one little power in an epic pool.
Why should it be changed? They are not a 'tough' AT. When you hear blaster, do you think..oh bags and bags of hp! Gotta have as many as melee ATs, for sure. More to the point..I know I have seen a heap of 'stalkers need something' threads in my time here. I bet you have too. How many have you seen asking (with logical reasons) to buff blasters? Could be a reason for that difference?
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actually there was: IO's.
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Originally Posted by Oliin
This wasn't much of an issue since there wasn't a way to buff their HP cap at the time.
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Although I disagree with Oliin's reasoning, he's got the facts right: Blaster HP was buffed in i5, IOs didn't exist until i9.
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Originally Posted by recalx
actually there was: IO's.
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I'm failing to see how the easy ability to cap HP is in any way a benefit. The ability to hit a cap does not add anything special to my character (or anyone's). |
Originally Posted by MisterD
Still trying to get my head around your logic here. Or, lack of it. How is blasters being the easiest AT when it comes to hitting the hp cap..a PENALTY? Oh darn it, I was slotting my blaster for acc, rech and def, and I hit the hp cap AGAIN! Poor me.
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Blasters (and Stalkers until the buff goes in) have the same HP cap as most of the ATs without defense sets (Dominators, Controllers, Defenders, ect) but have more base HPs. That's a survivability benefit on the low end without any +hp buffs/IOs/ect, but once you start factoring those buffs in that benefit disappears and in some cases buffing a Blaster's (and currently a Stalker's) max HPs is nearly pointless as they'll barely get any benefit out of it at all.
Please, explain to me how that's a positive thing. It's certainly not a gigantic 'needs to be fixed now' sort of thing either, but it's also not really a good thing.
Don't think I begrudge Stalkers their HP buff (or any of their upcoming buffs) since I don't, but I don't really know why Blasters have to have such a low HP cap for their base HPs.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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wanna ask the same about doms then?
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Originally Posted by Oliin
I'm failing to see how the easy ability to cap HP is in any way a benefit. The ability to hit a cap does not add anything special to my character (or anyone's).
Blasters (and Stalkers until the buff goes in) have the same HP cap as most of the ATs without defense sets (Dominators, Controllers, Defenders, ect) but have more base HPs. That's a survivability benefit on the low end without any +hp buffs/IOs/ect, but once you start factoring those buffs in that benefit disappears and in some cases buffing a Blaster's (and currently a Stalker's) max HPs is nearly pointless as they'll barely get any benefit out of it at all. Please, explain to me how that's a positive thing. It's certainly not a gigantic 'needs to be fixed now' sort of thing either, but it's also not really a good thing. Don't think I begrudge Stalkers their HP buff (or any of their upcoming buffs) since I don't, but I don't really know why Blasters have to have such a low HP cap for their base HPs. |
Blasters and stalkers on live are far closer to their HP caps than dominators are, is the thing. Stalkers' cap is being raised and this is being touted as a fix. It does make you wonder what part of "Blaster" says "can't buff your HP very much," conceptually.
However, to answer that question in the way I suspect Oliin might as well, what if they did up the HP caps for everyone who currently caps at 1606? Would that be a bad thing? One thing it would do for everyone is make frostwork suck less.
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Why do you hate blasters so much?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
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Um. Because dominators don't have the same problem that Blasters and Stalkers have when it comes to their base HPs and capped HPs.|
Originally Posted by recalx
wanna ask the same about doms then?
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Of course, if you're saying they should revisit HP caps across the board then that'd be just fine. I'm sure all sorts of arguments could be made about HP caps for different ATs. This one just happens to apply to Blasters and Stalkers(until it's fixed for the latter in I-22 anyway).
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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oh so you're saying blasters should just get the same hp as doms then?
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Originally Posted by Oliin
Um. Because dominators don't have the same problem that Blasters and Stalkers have when it comes to their base HPs and capped HPs.
Of course, if you're saying they should revisit HP caps across the board then that'd be just fine. I'm sure all sorts of arguments could be made about HP caps for different ATs. This one just happens to apply to Blasters and Stalkers(until it's fixed for the latter in I-22 anyway). |
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You asked a question, I answered it, and provided my guess at the reasoning behind it, namely, that the Blaster and Stalker HP cap situations are not identical. If you want to argue that HP caps in general should be looked at, sure, go ahead. I just don't think "because Stalkers got buffed" is much of a reason by itself.|
Originally Posted by MallNinja
Why do you hate blasters so much?
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Or you could attack and vilify me, I guess.
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I have to say I'm not sure what your thought processes is here.
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Originally Posted by recalx
oh so you're saying blasters should just get the same hp as doms then?
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Hopeling is a MAD MAN and he will lead us all to our DOOM. Follow not the words of this vile trickster! :O
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Or you could attack and vilify me, I guess. |
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why not?|
Originally Posted by Oliin
I have to say I'm not sure what your thought processes is here.
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i mean, both have hoarfrost right?
So stalkers HP cap is getting buffed to 2000ish, so that they can actually benefit from Dull Pain, Hoarfrost, High Pain Tolerance, etc.
Blasters start at the same HP base and have the same cap of 1600, are they getting their HP cap buffed?
I recently started playing a blaster, and between accolades and IO bonuses it isn't hard to reach the cap of 1600hp. Hoarfrost, for my blaster, will be a heal with a really long recharge.
Are my numbers off? Are we getting the same buff and I just missed it?