+End proc in stamina
By
Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2012-01-18 19:34 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
The good thing about the performance shifter proc in stamina is that even if your recovery is being debuffed it still has a chance to fire. Other than that, I think it gets you around the same end as one common IO would.
IIRC Perf shifter = .2% endurance per second on average per proc. Can be more, can be less, but around .2%/sec sounds about right.
Note: Unslotted Stamina is .4%/sec if that shows you a good comparison.
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Honestly, the first two slots give better results from EndMod IOs. The third slot is usually the best place to drop a +End proc.
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Originally Posted by Papaschtroumpf
I have been slotting the performance shifter chance for +end in stamina but Mid's doesn't show its effect (that I can tell) so I'm not sure I'm using it it best.
compared to a lvl50 common IO, does it make more diff than the 1st one, 2nd one 3rd one? i.e. would I be better slotting 2 lvl50 IOs in two slotted stamna, or one lvl50 IO plus the proc? |
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Also, it proc's for 10% of your current maximum endurance. So if you have no +end accolades or bonuses it will proc for 10 pts. If you have your end maximum pushed to say 115, it will proc for 11.5 points, etc.
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You might as well put an endmod IO in the first 2 slots in stamina (The resultant end-over time is very similar) you are better slotting the perf shifter in either the 3rd or 4th slot (if you have the slots to spare)
The Performance Shifter proc is also good in things like Superior Conditioning and Physical Perfection.
The values are low enough on both that the +End is a better choice than an End Mod. (Superior Conditioning actually increases your max End instead, so the +End gives it something it doesn't normally do)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
According to Mids, the +End proc delivers, on average, more End recovery than a lvl 50 EndMod IO. And as a bonus, it still delivers its End bump even when recovery is debuffed. Plus, since the level of the +End proc IO is irrelevant, you can (and should) slot a lvl 21 version of it (the lowest level of it that exists), making its effects useful to a greater degree at lower levels than the lvl 50 EndMods.
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Actually, that's not true. For your averaged end/s gain, the proc is better than a lv. 50 endmod IO even in the first slot.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Honestly, the first two slots give better results from EndMod IOs. The third slot is usually the best place to drop a +End proc.
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
According to Mids, the +End proc delivers, on average, more End recovery than a lvl 50 EndMod IO.
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10joy
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Because I think numbers are always helpful:|
Originally Posted by Tenjoy
Actually, that's not true. For your averaged end/s gain, the proc is better than a lv. 50 endmod IO even in the first slot.
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Slotting a single lvl 50 end mod IO: .177%end/sec
Base Recovery is 1.67%/sec.
Stamina is a +25% recovery buff (so .42%/sec)
A single lvl 50 IO provides 42.4% buff, so that's (.424*.25*1.67) = .177%/sec
Slotting Performance Shifter: .20%end/sec
The +Stamina proc on the other hand is a 20% chance for +10% endurance every 10 seconds, so it will proc, on average once every 50 seconds. Thus the expected endurance recovery from Performance Shifter is .20%/sec.
The Miracle Unique on the other hand provides a 15% recovery buff so (.15*1.67)= .25%end/sec
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Originally Posted by Tenjoy
Actually, that's not true. For your averaged end/s gain, the proc is better than a lv. 50 endmod IO even in the first slot.
This. Its only drawback is that the endurance it provides doesn't arrive as a constant stream but in random chunks. In a moment of extreme bad luck, you might need endurance urgently but the proc doesn't fire soon enough. 10joy |
Okay, the proc gives on average, .2 end/sec.
A level 50 EndMod IO gives .18 end/sec.
If you want to draw a .2 > .18 conclusion, then yeah. But that isn't quite the whole story.
As you've already said, barring recovery debuffs, the stock IO slotting is a more dependable stream of endurance.
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it makes sense thanks
the end proc is better number wise...but remember it could just not go off in that 1 minute time. :/
On average it's better, but it has it's drawbacks.
That said, I have yet to find a build that shouldnt slot QR or Stamina with at least 2 IOs worth of EndMod and a Proc.
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Originally Posted by Draggynn
Because I think numbers are always helpful:
Slotting a single lvl 50 end mod IO: .177%end/sec Base Recovery is 1.67%/sec. Stamina is a +25% recovery buff (so .42%/sec) A single lvl 50 IO provides 42.4% buff, so that's (.424*.25*1.67) = .177%/sec Slotting Performance Shifter: .20%end/sec The +Stamina proc on the other hand is a 20% chance for +10% endurance every 10 seconds, so it will proc, on average once every 50 seconds. Thus the expected endurance recovery from Performance Shifter is .20%/sec. |
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
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And boost the two EndMods to +5. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
the end proc is better number wise...but remember it could just not go off in that 1 minute time. :/
On average it's better, but it has it's drawbacks. That said, I have yet to find a build that shouldnt slot QR or Stamina with at least 2 IOs worth of EndMod and a Proc. |
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I was playing around with boosters yesterday, not specifically in stamina. Turns out that just boosting the first of two level 50 commons in a power does like 75% of the work. The difference is 91.8% versus I think 95.6%. Since the only way to get them is via real money, I'd recommend just using five rather than ten on a power slotted with two level 50 commons. That was kind of a tangent.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
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Both?
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Not entirely accurate and somewhat biased opinion. There is an equal chance that the power will activate six times in a row within the period of a minute and greatly out-perform a standard endurance recovery IO. Unfortunately (and fortunately) there is a very small chance for both of those scenarios to take place. Minor fluctuations around the average are a far more likely occurrence, which is precisely why we use an average as the most accurate prediction of what actually happens. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
the end proc is better number wise...but remember it could just not go off in that 1 minute time. :/
On average it's better, but it has it's drawbacks. That said, I have yet to find a build that shouldnt slot QR or Stamina with at least 2 IOs worth of EndMod and a Proc. |
Regardless, it's a somewhat superfluous debate. I assume most people have *at least* two slots in stamina with the majority having three. So long as one of those slots has a performance shifter: chance for endurance, and the rest are filled with the most powerful endurance modification enhancement you can use than the power is operating optimally.
That's really why I asked. if I want to 2-slot stamina rather than 3-slot it, I wanted to know if the proc was worth it it not.
I got the info I wanted
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Worth noting that a level 50 Performance Shifter proc will work even when you are exemped to level 1 - A level 21 can simply be slotted at level 18, as opposed to a level 50 being slotted at 47.
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
According to Mids, the +End proc delivers, on average, more End recovery than a lvl 50 EndMod IO. And as a bonus, it still delivers its End bump even when recovery is debuffed. Plus, since the level of the +End proc IO is irrelevant, you can (and should) slot a lvl 21 version of it (the lowest level of it that exists), making its effects useful to a greater degree at lower levels than the lvl 50 EndMods.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
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Is this accurate? If you have a lvl 50 IO slotted and you exemp down below 47, does the proc and/or bonuses still work? If so, why do people love the low-lvl ones so much (other than being able to use them as they lvl)?
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Worth noting that a level 50 Performance Shifter proc will work even when you are exemped to level 1 - A level 21 can simply be slotted at level 18, as opposed to a level 50 being slotted at 47.
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Procs that go off (or have a chance to go off) when a power is clicked or continuously on (through toggling on or being auto-on) will always fire with the power regardless of its level. Low level ones are worth more because they can be slotted at a lower level.|
Originally Posted by Xyzor
Is this accurate? If you have a lvl 50 IO slotted and you exemp down below 47, does the proc and/or bonuses still work? If so, why do people love the low-lvl ones so much (other than being able to use them as they lvl)?
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Global Bonuses from IO Sets, or Special Single IOs that act like Global Bonuses (e.g. Luck of the Gambler:+Rech) always work even when the power is not firing or even when the power is greyed out unless you go more than 3 levels lower than the level of the IO. This is where the level of the IO counts and why low level ones are worth more. (Purpled and PvP IOs however don't lose their bonus when exemplaring. Attuned IOs keep the bonuses down to their minimum level-3.)
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This is the distinction I was looking for, thanks. So, procs (DMG, +End, etc) never stop working, but special bonuses (LoTG +Recharge, Steadfast +Def, etc) do. Good to know!
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Procs that go off (or have a chance to go off) when a power is clicked or continuously on (through toggling on or being auto-on) will always fire with the power regardless of its level.
Global Bonuses from IO Sets, or Special Single IOs that act like Global Bonuses (e.g. Luck of the Gambler:+Rech) always work even when the power is not firing or even when the power is greyed out unless you go more than 3 levels lower than the level of the IO. |
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...as long as the power they're in is working.|
Originally Posted by Xyzor
This is the distinction I was looking for, thanks. So, procs (DMG, +End, etc) never stop working,
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Obviously, if you exemplar low enough and the power is now grey to you, the power can't run, and therefore, neither will those procs.
(And Global Bonuses will indeed work in greyed out powers as long as you don't exemplar more then 3 levels under the level of the IOs involved.)
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I have been slotting the performance shifter chance for +end in stamina but Mid's doesn't show its effect (that I can tell) so I'm not sure I'm using it it best.
compared to a lvl50 common IO, does it make more diff than the 1st one, 2nd one 3rd one?
i.e. would I be better slotting 2 lvl50 IOs in two slotted stamna, or one lvl50 IO plus the proc?