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/unsigned|
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master
There are a number of recipes and IOs that now sell for more than 2 billion Inf each. These transactions necessarily take place outside of the market (go to the Marketplace board, you'll probably see solicitations for several of them right now) because they involve more than one character sending money to more than one character.
When you've got market forces pushing prices up like that, it doesn't do anyone any good to force players to go outside the system to buy and sell. It means the auctionhouse can't take its 10% cut of the Inf, for one thing, and for another it means that people who want to buy or sell these recipes at "market value" have no choice but to risk the other party reneging on the agreement after they've handed their half over. It would be simplest all around if you'd raise the cap, at least for VIP players. People probably would still go outside the market to trade, but at least they'd have the choice of selling within it. |
1. The market isn't forcing prices higher than 2 billion. Players are.
2. If players choose to exceed the price cap on the market that's their choice. If they get burned that's the price they pay for being greedy.
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That's like saying that inflation would go away if people just stopped spending more money for things.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
/unsigned
1. The market isn't forcing prices higher than 2 billion. Players are. |
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| 2. If players choose to exceed the price cap on the market that's their choice. If they get burned that's the price they pay for being greedy. |
And those over-2-billion rates are often the only prices at which those things are available, because if they're sold for less than the going rate marketeers will buy them at those "low" prices and sell them at the >2 billion ones to make inf in arbitrage.
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Are you sure about that? Are you REEEEEEEEAAAALLLLYYYYY sure? |
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master
It would be simplest all around if you'd raise the cap, at least for VIP players.
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Because that's not an arbitrary decision. As I recall prior discussions about that, it's a hard limit based on the type of value used for that figure. (Like how 32-bit Windows is far more limited in the amount of memory (even when not artificiallly restricted) than 64 bit is.)
Changing that would not necessarily be "simple."
That said, everything being sold at those prices has at least one other non-market way of being obtained. Your choice is to spend INF, or spend time. Be patient and use one of the other methods.
Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.
Yes there's at least a long standing player-accepted "theory" that the 2 billion INF cap has something to do with software-based data types. As the theory goes 2 billion was picked by the Devs simply because that value can be cleanly represented by a single 32 bit signed Integer. It does admittedly seem reasonable to accept that.
But you have to remember back when this game was being launched almost 8 years ago 2 billion INF was a totally astronomical amount of INF to horde on one character. Without any market and a manual INF trading cap set at 9999 per trade the idea of being able to accomplish trades in the millions let alone in the billions was practically unthinkable. Basically this game existed for many years under the working paradigm that 2 billion was a far larger amount than anyone ever would or could need.
Obviously with the introduction of the market and IOs all that changed. From a coding point of view it would not be impossible to raise the cap. Depending on exactly what data type they did in fact use changing the cap could be more or less problematic. But no matter the details the INF cap could be increased beyond 2 billion if the Devs were willing to spend the time on it.
That leaves us with the real question: Will the Devs ever decide that it's worth the effort to increase the cap? Maybe, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon despite the current market realities. You have to remember that even though there are probably several hundred players out there who routinely throw around billions of INF there are still many thousands of others who for whatever reason will probably never see 100 million INF on their characters much less 2 billion. For the overwhelming majority of players the 2 billion cap will continue to be more than sufficiently high. Also when you consider the prices of some of the top PvP IOs the only reason they go for around 2-3 billion INF now is that they are pegged to the current cap. If you hypothetically increased the cap to 10 billion it's quite likely those top IOs would simply jump up in price to around 10 billion and stop again. There's no substantive reason to raise the cap other than to see the number get bigger - the intrinsic "value" of the most valuable things in the game would not change.
So while the INF cap could be increased I suspect the Devs have decided there's not enough justification for it yet, if ever.
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I hope and pray they do not.
The result will be like it was when they changed the cap previously. The price on everything just shot straight up.
Another way to look at is that people are not precisely saying they will spend over 2 billion for a PvP recipe. The other way to look at it is that they (the purchasers of these items) have decided that a PvP recipe is worth 10% over the influence cap.
I am certain this will still be the case, regardless of what that cap may be. If I am correct, this means that the result of raising the influence cap is that the influence you and I now own will be worth much less.
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I agree with what you said about PvP IO prices but the top 2 billion INF cap has never been changed. That's been the top INF cap since the beginning of the game.|
Originally Posted by _eeek_
I hope and pray they do not.
The result will be like it was when they changed the cap previously. The price on everything just shot straight up. Another way to look at is that people are not precisely saying they will spend over 2 billion for a PvP recipe. The other way to look at it is that they (the purchasers of these items) have decided that a PvP recipe is worth 10% over the influence cap. I am certain this will still be the case, regardless of what that cap may be. If I am correct, this means that the result of raising the influence cap is that the influence you and I now own will be worth much less. |
What did change a couple of times was the max amount of INF you could manually trade to another player per trade. When the game launched you could only trade 9,999 INF per trade. Then they raised that limit to 99,999. After another year or so they finally raised the limit to the current 999,999,999 per trade.
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Changing the basic data type for inf would be a non-trivial programming task. There would be inevitable bugs that caused people to lose inf during market transactions and trades. That in itself isn't reason to not do something, but the potential for bugs should be taken into consideration when there are multiple solutions.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Depending on exactly what data type they did in fact use changing the cap could be more or less problematic. But no matter the details the INF cap could be increased beyond 2 billion if the Devs were willing to spend the time on it.
That leaves us with the real question: Will the Devs ever decide that it's worth the effort to increase the cap? Maybe, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon despite the current market realities. You have to remember that even though there are probably several hundred players out there who routinely throw around billions of INF there are still many thousands of others who for whatever reason will probably never see 100 million INF on their characters much less 2 billion. For the overwhelming majority of players the 2 billion cap will continue to be more than sufficiently high. |
One solution that's been mentioned before is the idea of a new type of salvage that would convert to inf. Think of this as a gold bar or a bearer bond. These could be traded freely among players (unless it caused you to exceed your F2P or premium inf limit), and could come in several denominations.
A new kiosk could be added to Vault Corporation that let you convert a million, 10 million, 100 million or a billion inf to one of these nuggets of inf for a small fee, providing another one of those inf sinks that everyone seems so fond of. The kiosk would let you convert the nugget back to its face value free of charge.
This would allow us to exceed the inf cap without the inherent risks of putting the inf into actual physical items like purple IOs, which can fluctuate in value and are difficult to carry around in large numbers. It would also avoid changing a basic data type that could have negative effects that ripple throughout the system.
/unsigned
There's a reason why the market is the way it is. No one's buying a PVP IO for 2.6 bil/3.0 Bil? Yeah. Wonder why. Put it in Auction and see it go for 2 bil even in less than 1 min's time span. Why? Because that little extra is ducking lulzworthy on a scale that can't be measured.
No to raising the bar.
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You'll note that I didn't say changing the underlying data type would be simple. I just stated that it would not be impossible. |
Originally Posted by Rodion
Changing the basic data type for inf would be a non-trivial programming task. There would be inevitable bugs that caused people to lose inf during market transactions and trades. That in itself isn't reason to not do something, but the potential for bugs should be taken into consideration when there are multiple solutions.
One solution that's been mentioned before is the idea of a new type of salvage that would convert to inf. Think of this as a gold bar or a bearer bond. These could be traded freely among players (unless it caused you to exceed your F2P or premium inf limit), and could come in several denominations. A new kiosk could be added to Vault Corporation that let you convert a million, 10 million, 100 million or a billion inf to one of these nuggets of inf for a small fee, providing another one of those inf sinks that everyone seems so fond of. The kiosk would let you convert the nugget back to its face value free of charge. This would allow us to exceed the inf cap without the inherent risks of putting the inf into actual physical items like purple IOs, which can fluctuate in value and are difficult to carry around in large numbers. It would also avoid changing a basic data type that could have negative effects that ripple throughout the system. |
We obviously don't know the exact details of how hard it would be for the Devs to make this change. But we can assume there would be some amount of effort and risk involved and clearly that would have to be factored into any decision the Devs made about this. Even your idea with coming up with a new system of "salvage to represent chunks of INF" would have a certain amount risk involved. Basically -any- change would have to be justified as far as the Devs are concerned.
I simply don't believe the desire to surpass the cap has outweighed the reasons we're better off without such a change - at least yet at any rate.
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Not even CLOSE to the same thing. |
Originally Posted by Robotech_Master
That's like saying that inflation would go away if people just stopped spending more money for things.
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In a real world store you have the option of A) paying what the store is charging for the item you want, or B) not getting the item you want.
In CoH's market, the item goes to whoever is willing to pay the most for it. It that environment, you can pay the "I want it NOW" price, or you can guess what the average set price is and place a bid, and eventually you will get your item for the price you are willing to pay.
In the real world, inflation is caused by many things. In CoH's world, it's caused by the players throwing a pile of money at something until they get it. The devs and the game have nothing at all to do with how much players pay for items in the auction house.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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You forgot these:|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Not even CLOSE to the same thing.
In a real world store you have the option of A) paying what the store is charging for the item you want, or B) not getting the item you want. In CoH's market, the item goes to whoever is willing to pay the most for it. It that environment, you can pay the "I want it NOW" price, or you can guess what the average set price is and place a bid, and eventually you will get your item for the price you are willing to pay. In the real world, inflation is caused by many things. In CoH's world, it's caused by the players throwing a pile of money at something until they get it. The devs and the game have nothing at all to do with how much players pay for items in the auction house. |
Option C: Tell a friend you're looking for it. They may help you do whatever to get it (PVP, farm, etc.) Or just give it to you.
Option D: Save A-merits. (Or, depending on item, use the AE to get tickets, try reward merits, etc.)
Option E: Just play the game.
Choice: Spend time, or spend INF.
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"It's never that easy" or trivial when programming. If you're imaginging bugs already then it's a good reason not to change it in the first place. The original reason it wasn't the maximum 32-bit integer was this returned a negative value once it was exceeded making people instantly broke|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Changing the basic data type for inf would be a non-trivial programming task. There would be inevitable bugs that caused people to lose inf during market transactions and trades. That in itself isn't reason to not do something, but the potential for bugs should be taken into consideration when there are multiple solutions.
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It also won't change anything as it'll just mean being able to store that much more on an individual alt. Sales would only reflect the sales which could be on the market up to the new cap and there'd still be black market Market sales of IOs.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
One solution that's been mentioned before is the idea of a new type of salvage that would convert to inf.
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Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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You know, the government could fix everything if they'd just print more money.
I mean, constantly introducing more and more currency into an economy at a rate exponentially greater than the rate at which it's removed couldn't possibly have any kind of downside, right?
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
Raise the cap????
how about make PVP IOs more accessible? put them on the reward merit vendor list.
or, wait a short while, once issue 22 is released you'll get yet another means to earn Empryean Merit and oh lookie, you can buy PVP IOs with those
Give me more ways to obtain my Glad proc what are the odds i spend 2.5billion to buy yours?
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The chances of ME buying it are exactly......0%. |
Originally Posted by Celestial Might
Give me more ways to obtain my Glad proc what are the odds i spend 2.5billion to buy yours?
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I can build my characters just fine without it.
You know, there IS another option to deal with prices on the market. Learn how to build your characters cheaper. Why would I spend that much on a 3% defense IO when I can take Maneuvers for free?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
There are a number of recipes and IOs that now sell for more than 2 billion Inf each. These transactions necessarily take place outside of the market (go to the Marketplace board, you'll probably see solicitations for several of them right now) because they involve more than one character sending money to more than one character.
When you've got market forces pushing prices up like that, it doesn't do anyone any good to force players to go outside the system to buy and sell. It means the auctionhouse can't take its 10% cut of the Inf, for one thing, and for another it means that people who want to buy or sell these recipes at "market value" have no choice but to risk the other party reneging on the agreement after they've handed their half over.
It would be simplest all around if you'd raise the cap, at least for VIP players. People probably would still go outside the market to trade, but at least they'd have the choice of selling within it.