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Sorry, that was a bit unclear. By "market" i meant wentworths/Black market. You can get a recipe for a "stun grenade" temporary power. It's pretty useful for annoying enemies, and it's a targeted AoE as well. (if you're a free player, sadly you can't access the invention system.)|
Originally Posted by RogerWilco
Bionut911 also mentions Stun grenades. I tried to find what he meant on the Paragon Wiki, but I can only find ones for PvP and Arena.
When he says to buy them on the Market does he mean the Black Market/Woolworths? |
Since you're level six, check the Wentworth's right next to the AE building. Once you have the recipe, and the salvage needed for it. Go to the south end of steel canyon (from the train) and the university where you can craft your recipes will be right there.
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Another notable detail about nova form is that it gives a damage and to-hit boost to all of your nova attacks. It's around 50-60% damage increase (don't quote me on that I dont remember exactly at the moment) and the to-hit is good as well.
Aside from that, the nova attacks have pretty good range, so you can easily fly above a group, or across the room and hit them from afar before they can get to you.
I find this strategy very useful for nova form.
EDIT:
1. Use emanation on the center of a group, hit the guy inthe back for maximum targets
2. use detonation on the center of the group to scatter them
3. Single targets to clean up
When you reach the correct level, GRAB GRAVITY WELL. Aside from the superior damage, it's a single target hold. This basically makes voids a thing of the past
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
Sorry, that was a bit unclear. By "market" i meant wentworths/Black market. You can get a recipe for a "stun grenade" temporary power. It's pretty useful for annoying enemies, and it's a targeted AoE as well. (if you're a free player, sadly you can't access the invention system.)
Since you're level six, check the Wentworth's right next to the AE building. Once you have the recipe, and the salvage needed for it. Go to the south end of steel canyon (from the train) and the university where you can craft your recipes will be right there. _________________________ Another notable detail about nova form is that it gives a damage and to-hit boost to all of your bright nova attacks. It's around 50-60% damage increase (don't quote me on that I dont remember exactly at the moment) and the to-hit is good as well. Aside from that, the nova attacks have pretty good range, so you can easily fly above a group, or across the room and hit them from afar before they can get to you. I find this strategy very useful for nova form. 1. Photon Scatter, center of group, target the guy in the back. 2. Luminous detonation on the center of the group 3. Use the single targets to pick off the bad guys while they're on the ground. When you get to level 8-10 grab radiant strike. Aside from the high damage. the Knock back from it is great against voids. It knocks them off their feet, giving you those few precious seconds needed to crush them before they can fire off an attack. (this combo works well with stealth, so u can sneak in and deck him) |
Why are you using the names of sub-par Kheldian powers? This guy is playing a WARSHADE,not a KBbringer
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If you weren't a regular, I'd be pissed |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Why are you using the names of sub-par Kheldian powers? This guy is playing a WARSHADE,not a KBbringer
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Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
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Yeah... He has a point, though.... I love my PB to death, but the nickname "KBringer" contains more truth than I care to admit. I wish it weren't true, but it is. :/|
Originally Posted by Timeshadow
If you weren't a regular, I'd be pissed
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"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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I love the knockback from it! My first character was an energy/energy blaster, then my second was my peacebringer. So it was a great transition.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
Yeah... He has a point, though.... I love my PB to death, but the nickname "KBringer" contains more truth than I care to admit. I wish it weren't true, but it is. :/
"Alien" |
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
I love the knockback from it! My first character was an energy/energy blaster, then my second was my peacebringer. So it was a great transition.
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You also need KB to keep you alive because you're a child.
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There's a decent amount but not to the extent that I've heard anyone complain about it outside the forums. Personally, the only time KB really gets on my nerves is when it gets an enemy stuck in the geometry (Especially when said enemy can still take pot shots at you |
Originally Posted by AlienOne
Yeah... He has a point, though.... I love my PB to death, but the nickname "KBringer" contains more truth than I care to admit. I wish it weren't true, but it is. :/
"Alien" |
)Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You also need KB to keep you alive because you're a child.
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Wanna play a Peacebringer? Don't believe the hype. Check out my guide and get the real truth:
PEACEBRINGERS SUCK!!! (Now fully up to date for i21+
)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Timeshadow
There's a decent amount but not to the extent that I've heard anyone complain about it outside the forums. Personally, the only time KB really gets on my nerves is when it gets an enemy stuck in the geometry (Especially when said enemy can still take pot shots at you
) |
I stripped down and retired my human form Peacebringer because I just couldn't take it. I spent a crapload of inf. on his build, got him to a point that seemed perfect on paper... And then I still hated him. I wanted to like him so badly, but here's the problem.
My Warshade solos 54x8 Rikti like they're a joke. To me, that's the 'starting point' for testing out a new build. When I ran my Peacebringer through Borea caves, it was just a nightmare. I mean, sure, he killed everything, but the scattering drove me insane. I had a constant AOE chain, but one of those AOE's was Solar Flare. That meant I had to be in melee range to use it, and it recharged quickly....
It's sort of hard to use a melee AOE consistently when the AOE itself (plus your other three, in the cone, the TAOE, and seekers) scatter everything out of melee range. It also comes with inherent Hover, which I used because I'd be stupid not to take the free defense. Hovering from scattered group of three to scattered group of three for Solar Flare isn't even logical.
So, in a nutshell, I scattered mobs everywhere which made it harder to kill them- I had to resort to using single target attacks in many cases instead of the fast AOE cycle I built for because the enemies were all over the freaking map after 2 powers.
It's not fun for me. It's messy and it's ugly and it doesn't have anywhere near the "flow," the perfect synergy and harmony, that good old fashioned Warshade destruction has.
Edit: Because I forgot to mention the LF crash. The HP crash is a non-issue because of the instant HP recovery tools available to Peacebringers.... But man, that endurance crash every 90 seconds is the worst. I can't stand it. You're always going to be reliant on blue inspirations, no matter how tough the fight is. Conserve can only be up every other crash. I don't like indiscriminately relying on inspirations.
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Well, you could always join the Triform fold. Perhaps, it is your true calling.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I stripped down and retired my human form Peacebringer because I just couldn't take it. I spent a crapload of inf. on his build, got him to a point that seemed perfect on paper... And then I still hated him.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=266653
Late
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Originally Posted by AIB
Well, you could always join the Triform fold. Perhaps, it is your true calling.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=266653 Late |
The Bright Nova is still susceptible to teammate griefing, and Human Form does more AOE damage than Tri Form can. The only benefit I could see would be a Human/Dwarf build that used Dwarf Flare (KD) instead of Human Flare but that would require instant form shifts and toggle suppression, and even after all of that, the Dwarf Flare would still be griefed by the KB in other attacks- I'd only be able to use it and hit max targets for the initial attack against a spawn. After that, it'd be back to the insane scattering. No thanks.
And maybe nova form is good to take because it's fun :P
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lol, i've seen what you look like. Your argument is invalid... |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You also need KB to keep you alive because you're a child.
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
And maybe nova form is good to take because it's fun :P
lol, i've seen what you look like. Your argument is invalid... |
I might look twelve, but I'm still older and more clever than you.
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Can I haz his stuff? |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I stripped down and retired my human form
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I have read the guide, but half of it uses terms I don't know.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Self plug, I recommend checking out the MFing Warshade guide in my signature. Warshades can be a lot of things, but simple is not one of them.
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I've gotten my WS to level 10 and did a few missions with using the Dark Nova form. I don't find that it helps me much. The flying sometimes outranges melee enemies, but the real problem are still the Quantum dudes.
Each time I encounter one, I get a hospital trip.
I also don't like the looks and the sounds, so for now I'm just giving up on the Warshade, I have 13 other toons that are much more fun to play. I've tried everything except Peacebringer, and find this by far the hardest and least interesting to play.
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What terms, for example? You say half, so I'm guessing it's just a matter of learning the lexicon we use in this game, but perhaps we can help shed the light on some of them.|
Originally Posted by RogerWilco
I have read the guide, but half of it uses terms I don't know.
I've gotten my WS to level 10 and did a few missions with using the Dark Nova form. I don't find that it helps me much. The flying sometimes outranges melee enemies, but the real problem are still the Quantum dudes. Each time I encounter one, I get a hospital trip. I also don't like the looks and the sounds, so for now I'm just giving up on the Warshade, I have 13 other toons that are much more fun to play. I've tried everything except Peacebringer, and find this by far the hardest and least interesting to play. |
And yes, soloing a kheldian for your first several levels can be painful. It's not something I would recommend to new players. You should probably find a team for it, if you're interested in continuing. Once you get Gravity Well, I find that things become a bit easier.
Personally i think the kheldian difficulty curve is to steep(too hard early to lategame, then wham easy). Too many essential abilities coming way to late on one hand, and too many unbalanced bumps in enemy group difficulty because of the "quantum dudes". Unbalanced refers here to the automatic difficulty system btw, not the existance of quantums per se.
Yes sure, "gravity well" will help, unless there is a mezzer AND a quantum dude in a group(which pretty much amounts to two mezzers, which is pretty steep considering it will happen even on low difficulty settings). No matter how you set the difficulty, its either too easy or too hard early-midgame. Too hard if a normal group without quantums is just doable, too easy if a normal group with quantums is doable and you meet 95% groups without them.
I also do not see the purpose in randomly throwing enemies at a player before giving him the tools to handle them. I just came back from a 2+ year hiatus, and grouping has gotten quite a bit harder on my old server(and im respectfully declining the offer to buy servertransfers for my 10+ chars).
Imho no other AT suffers from this, some other have a hard time aswell, but its continiously hard and you simply set the difficulty accordingly which will keep things interesting instead of frustrating. Im a bit sad about that, since i always love the hybrid/jack-of-all-trades types of chars in other games, but i just can't grow to like the khelds ingame(i like them fine on paper).
On a somewhat unrelated note, maybe it would be a good idea to implement automatic bar switching for forms, its almost a basic prerequsite for playing a tri- or dualformer and players not aware of binds, reading forums or playing a localised client can get mighty frustrated without it. Afaik this AT doesn't require a prior lvl 50 anymore, there is nothing in the ingame description to prepare new players for all the pitfalls of khelds, and the rough ride they sign up for early on.
Edit: For me the journey to 50, aswell as the results at 50 are equally important. Im aware khelds can do awesome things at 50 with proper IOs, but so can other ATs. Also i don't like how the forms get pretty much left by the roadside, first with the whole pool powers and now with the incarnate system. If they want us to just hop into form to fire single ability or two and then switch back to human they should make formchange instant imho.
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You'll notice that I said it becomes a bit easier, not "wham easy." Also, I'm pretty sure break frees still drop at early levels. Plus, you know, teaming. Teaming helps.|
Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
Yes sure, "gravity well" will help, unless there is a mezzer AND a quantum dude in a group(which pretty much amounts to two mezzers, which is pretty steep considering it will happen even on low difficulty settings). No matter how you set the difficulty, its either too easy or too hard early-midgame. Too hard if a normal group without quantums is just doable, too easy if a normal group with quantums is doable and you meet 95% groups without them.
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Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
I just came back from a 2+ year hiatus, and grouping has gotten quite a bit harder on my old server(and im respectfully declining the offer to buy servertransfers for my 10+ chars).
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Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
On a somewhat unrelated note, maybe it would be a good idea to implement automatic bar switching for forms, its almost a basic prerequsite for playing a tri- or dualformer and players not aware of binds, reading forums or playing a localised client can get mighty frustrated without it.
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Breakfrees do drop sure, but try seeing it from the perspective of someone who doesn't have 4 wide rows of inspirations but only 2 smaller ones. I somehow never have the kind of inspirations i need when i need them on my low chars since you don't always have enough random stuff to combine into whatever you want. Also inspirations drop alot less, since the groups you fight are alot smaller aswell.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
You'll notice that I said it becomes a bit easier, not "wham easy." Also, I'm pretty sure break frees still drop at early levels. Plus, you know, teaming. Teaming helps.
Do you use the global channels for your server? I find that the community (at least on my server) has by and large moved to that for teaming, instead of sending out random tells to people. Also, you realize that VIPs get a free server transfer every month with their subscription? That could be useful, if implemented correctly, and was able to be hidden if the player didn't want to use them. |
And global channels do not help that much if there is no team going(literally not even one). For example if there are only 4 people online between 20-40 and none of them wants to team... then the advice to team won't help you much. And yes im in the process of moving my chars slowly over to a busier server with the free transfer, but my high chars have priority.
Most on this board agree that kheldians are awesome at 50, i don't see how it could hurt them to be a little bit less annoying early on. I probably would have a different opinion if i was on a busy server like freedom, but my reality is that teaming isn't possible anytime, not even close to it. And leveling a kheld solo is imho very frustrating, slow and boring.
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You're missing the whole point. Global channels. You get on one, ask if there is a tf/team that you could get on (or start one yourself), and voila. People don't have to be in your level range to join you with something. Anyone in the channel will be able to see your post, and will be able to team up with you. If you're not using the tools available to you (that everyone else is using), of course you will have difficulty finding teams.
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Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
Breakfrees do drop sure, but try seeing it from the perspective of someone who doesn't have 4 wide rows of inspirations but only 2 smaller ones. I somehow never have the kind of inspirations i need when i need them on my low chars since you don't always have enough random stuff to combine into whatever you want. Also inspirations drop alot less, since the groups you fight are alot smaller aswell.
And global channels do not help that much if there is no team going(literally not even one). For example if there are only 4 people online between 20-40 and none of them wants to team... then the advice to team won't help you much. And yes im in the process of moving my chars slowly over to a busier server with the free transfer, but my high chars have priority. Most on this board agree that kheldians are awesome at 50, i don't see how it could hurt them to be a little bit less annoying early on. I probably would have a different opinion if i was on a busy server like freedom, but my reality is that teaming isn't possible anytime, not even close to it. And leveling a kheld solo is imho very frustrating, slow and boring. |
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Im on the global channels with my 50s, they do not help with my low chars. Right now, saturday evening europe time, there are 9 people on my server(villain side), of which 2 are 50 and 6 are below level 15. |
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
You're missing the whole point. Global channels. You get on one, ask if there is a tf/team that you could get on (or start one yourself), and voila. People don't have to be in your level range to join you with something. Anyone in the channel will be able to see your post, and will be able to team up with you. If you're not using the tools available to you (that everyone else is using), of course you will have difficulty finding teams.
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/watching reports 2 players in the global channel, of which i am one. Apparently the other person doesn't care to team atm. Now TRY to imagine how it looks on weekdays and you understand why im having a hard time teaming.
I get it that its different on the big servers, you just speak up on a channel and get a team. Thats nice for you. It doesn't work like this on mine and i have a SG basis and a bunch of chars im kinda attached to on this server. But all of this is completely besides the point, "get a team" is sound advice for every char that has problems, but its more a bandaid than a solution.
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I wouldn't call Protector a "big server." Which server are you on? If you're logging in at European evening time on an already small NA server, I could possibly see the problem there. If you're on a EU server, well, I'm afraid I don't know what it's like over there--I've only visited once.|
Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
Im on the global channels with my 50s, they do not help with my low chars. Right now, saturday evening europe time, there are 9 people on my server(villain side), of which 2 are 50 and 6 are below level 15.
/watching reports 2 players in the global channel, of which i am one. Apparently the other person doesn't care to team atm. Now TRY to imagine how it looks on weekdays and you understand why im having a hard time teaming. I get it that its different on the big servers, you just speak up on a channel and get a team. Thats nice for you. It doesn't work like this on mine and i have a SG basis and a bunch of chars im kinda attached too on this server. But all of this is completely besides the point, "get a team" is sound advice for every char that has problems, but its more a bandaid than a solution. |
Is it possible you are not using the main channel for the server? There are quite a few server channels per server, and you'll want to make sure you're on the channel with the highest average population for that server.
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To focus directly on this--I would argue that there are many power combinations that suffer in low levels solo. Getting a team is generally the best way to get through those levels too. I can agree, to an extent, that kheldians have things a bit more difficult than most, but it is by no means impossible. Just difficult.
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Originally Posted by Jeremia_Bane
But all of this is completely besides the point, "get a team" is sound advice for every char that has problems, but its more a bandaid than a solution.
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Thats all i said, that its difficult. But actually i wouldn't care about difficult(difficult doesn't exist, you can set mobs to 1/-3, how could they be difficult?), thus i called it frustrating because you can't level at the difficulty setting you feel is appropiate for your char. And personally i disagree that other chars have it equally hard, khelds imho are the only ones that are given problems without a solution(at the time). Its a leftover from years ago, and the fact it doesn't get adressed is imho a general sign of the neglect this AT receives. Im aware of the changes they got, but if you compare it to the attention other ATs receive, ATs that are already extremely well off... i just can't be happy about it and see no purpose in pretending i am.
And about my server, zukunft(the german one), i appreciate your help really, but im already in the progress of moving over to union. Thats a move i actually started before my break 2 years ago. Ironically a server named zukunft(=future), lacks exactly that.
I can see its a whole different matter here on union as far as teams are concerned, but im leaving behind old friends(that are currently not playing) who will most likely not follow me due to the language barrier. So again, im not happy about that either. But the server discussion is offtopic anyway, there is a point when it doesn't matter which channels you are in because simply put you are mostly alone in them anyway. Im saying this as someone who remembers how it was years ago, when you couldn't even go 15min without getting an invite and you could simply start a new team and have it full in 5 min anytime(unless everyone was already in a team).
I think if they moved up Gravitic Emanation (maybe switch it with the tp foe at level 8), most of the problems would be alleviated. It would be so much easier dealing with voids/quantums/mezzers at low levels with my trusty stun cannon.
It's unfortunate to hear about your server 
If you find union not working out for you, my server hosts all kheldian activities every Friday at around 9/10pm EST. Plus, it's a bit more active (yet still nice and close knit).
I've looked up those Nemesis Staff and Sands of Mu. I don't have those, maybe they make up some of the difference? How strong are those compared to the standard Bolt and Eye attacks? I can see the advantage of a separate couple of cooldowns. You get them from the monthly Paragon Rewards, right?
As I said, the reason I made this post, is that I couldn't kill the Quantums before they could kill me.
I will take Nova and see how I fare with that. If that solves things, it's just the first six levels that are a pain.
How do you respec? I thought you had to buy that on the Paragon Market?
Bionut911 also mentions Stun grenades. I tried to find what he meant on the Paragon Wiki, but I can only find ones for PvP and Arena.
When he says to buy them on the Market does he mean the Black Market/Woolworths?
The Nemesis Staff and Sands of Mu (while also being available as temporary powers from some older missions) are usually taken to mean the Paragon Rewards attacks. You actually can get your reward tokens faster than once a month now, because you get them for buying certain amounts of points in the Paragon Market.
There are a number of ways to respec. For a lot of us, we have free ones from Paragon Rewards to use. There are also "trials" (the old kind, not the new kind) you can run at level 24, 34, and 44 (I think those are the levels, been years since I've actually had to run one.) Like you said, you can buy respec tokens on the Paragon Market. It is also possible to find/buy and craft a respec recipe. However, those are rare and tend to cost a lot of influence at Wentworth's. For you, I'd suggest talking to a trainer when you want to respec and simply switching to your second build. It will need to be trained up from level 1-6 the first time you do so and is effectively a respec as a result.
Stun Grenades can be purchased as a recipe at Wentworth's. I don't recall how expensive they are, but they would certainly be useful for you. It's a targeted AoE stun. I'm not certain of the magnitude or accuracy, but it usually stuns a good portion of a spawn. There's no guarantee it will stun the quantum, but it would reduce incoming damage from other sources.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian