Tpn

I do it because for various reasons I sometimes get roped into leading, and I have zero desire to type a novel every time I run content. Not in a million years do I want to deal with the time and fallout of leading the newer trials. Meanwhile, I can fill a BAF or Lambda in minutes, because there are lots of people waiting around for trials to form but don't want to lead. So they get to play what I'm comfortable leading, and that is going to be BAF or Lambda. Even Keyes gives me heartburn like I'm running a nursery.

I disagree.

To the OP:

While I think TPN could benefit from some minor improvements, I think you'll find that after running it a few times, it is actually a very simple trial. I would not give up on a trial after one bad experience.

If you think the TPN could use some of the improvements Snow Globe listed then you do agree. I have run ALL of the trials many times on my 35 50's all to T3 or 4 in all of the slots. I have had good and bad trials as I have mentioned more than once. The issue has NOTHING to do with running the trials once or twice NOTHING.

I feel the same way too. I don't mind leading a trial but I don't feel like typing out pages and pages of instructions every time I form a league for the newer trial.

BAF is definitely least problematic because it is really just simple.

Lamba used to be much harder. Most people didn't even want to do Lam when BAF/Lam came out because they weren't familiar with the routes.

I don't think TNP is that hard. It just takes several tries to get familiar with it.

The only way, in my opinion, that can get people to do the new trials is to make them the only option to unlock later Incarnate abilities. That is really the only way because if they allow BAF/Lam to drop salvages that are good for unlocking the later abilities, then people will just keep farming these two.

And really, it makes sense. Your Incarnate grows/level up from the first two trials and then becomes strong enough to handle the later trials. It's just human nature to farm the easiest trials for the similar rewards because I know when my gaming time is limited, I only want to form BAF team because it is the easiest to form a large team.

I'll be okay doing TNP/MoM with other +2 and +3 incarnates because the chance of winning is usually higher. And if that's the only way to advance further as an Incarnate, then it should be easier to form a large team.

I still have mixed feeling about being "forced" to do the later trials to advance because do we have enough people to do that? I think we just need to give it more time before more people are familiar with TNP/MoM. I mean I remember hearing ******** threads about how hard "BAF" was... T_T

The thing is when the BAF came out it was harder not just because it was new but its because you had mainly 50's in the league. A 24 man league with all 50's and no lore pets is really a different animal than what teams on the average are facing now with TONS of people running around +2-3 and T3-4 lore pets, TOTALLY different animal.

My point was made over the holiday when TONS of 50's and no lore pet groups were failing the BAF right and left.

I think we just need to give it more time to see if more people can get more familiar with the new trials.

I don't think TNP is that unreasonable but MoM has higher "requirement", meaning the team must have some decent psionic protection/Barriers or else they are going to get wiped by Penelope. More level shifts also help a ton.

I actually failed TNP the other day when I formed the team. I wasn't being particularly picky about teammates because it's hard enough to get people to do TNP. Anyway, we had some people that have done it. I asked 4-5 people to kill off Telepaths. We finished the first part and got 60 Threads and many people were happy. However, the 2nd part has Maelstrom and the group outside was getting murdered by him. I wasn't even looking at the bar as I was trying to rush through the buildings. Anyway, we failed but I made sure I explained what was going on. I told them that it is ok to fail as long as they learned something in the trial.

I made it pretty clear that we may fail TNP because many players were first timers. I just want people to get familiar with it.

As far as "instruction" goes, I haven't done much of WoW raids except for some of the low level ones and I don't recall seeing any instruction as well. It's basically just killing elites and trying to figure out little by little. I am sure higher level raids are more complicated.

I can certainly agree with this statement. The TPN or MOM trials are not something I find enjoyable at all because the gimmicks get in the way of my fun, but they can be completed successfully for sure.

Saying that TPN could benefit from some of the suggestions listed by a given poster is not the same as saying that I agree with said poster's assessment of the trial in its entirety or the manner in which they expressed it. With that said, I disagree that the devs should pay special attention to their opinion (and others like it) and implement changes accordingly, which is what your posts seemed to suggest they should be doing. I would hope that they'd take a variety of opinions into consideration before adjusting a trial.

The second part of my post was addressed to the OP, as I indicated, and was not a reference to the number of times you have personally run all of the trials.

Haven't run it yet - do the building icons not show up on the map? They do in the Keyes trial (and that's the only reason it's playable).

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

There are no icons on the map in TPN as of last time I ran it.

...I guess I need to do some recon in Imperial City before doing this then.

Originally Posted by Shubbie Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.

Make macros of instructions. They really minimize how many instructions you have to type.

This is what I have for UGT:

/macro Targ1 "lc Throughout the trial we will be fighting 3 Warwalker AVs. Each Warwalker uses a special mechanic that targets random members of the league. If you are targetted you will see bright red text under your hp bar saying 'targetted'"
/macro Targ2 "lc It is extremely important that you constantly watch your hp/status bar for targetted status. If you are targetted you need to move FAR away from every other league member, stay away until your targetted status is gone."
/macro Glowies "lc I will be collecting the Glowing Lichen that are used on the Regenerating Warwalker. For ease of use I will be the only one collecting these, no one else needs to bother with them"
/macro Pull1 "lc We will be fighting WW AVs next. $target will be pulling the Regenerating WW towards us where we come in. Please wait at the elevator until called to move up and attack."
/macro Pull2 "lc When the Regenerating WW dies $target will pull the Lichen Infested WW into the far left corner of the room, stay where you are until called to move up and attack"
/macro Trap "lc The Crystal Trap room is ahead. We will need to defeat all 4 crystals to move on. Start with the Crystal on your left as you enter. If you have a taunt, pull DE away from the crystals to stop its regeneration"
/macro Bomb "lc Continue clearing mobs. $target will be running ahead to trigger bombs. When we reach the Spore Tunnel run to the end of it, if you have Desdemona make sure not to lose her. When you reach more mobs, start clearing them again."
/macro Avatar "lc We will be fighting the Avatar soon. During this fight he will use [Grasp of Gaea] aka Will of the Earth on 1 random league member. If this is you, you will need to quickly move away from everyone else or he will be healed."
/macro Final "lc This is the final floor. There are 3 mobs on this floor followed by Avatar of the Hamidon. When we reach the 3rd mob STOP and do not go any further. Gather close, we will buff up first. Save all uses of Destiny and Lore until called for."


And this is what I have for keyes:
(I also split the teams into high dps/high level shifted toons onto the reactor team and low dps/low lvl shifted toons onto the cells team, and I use a targetting macro to call out those who are disinitgrating when fighting antimatter)

/macro Reactor "lc Team $target will be clearing Warworks off the 2nd and 3rd floor of the reactor, Warworks on the first floor do not need to be killed."
/macro Cells "lc Team $target will be responsible for collecting and using power cells on the 2nd and 3rd floor of the reactor. Do Not use any power cells on the first floor"
/macro MyGrp "lc My team will be clearing Warworks off the 2nd and 3rd floor of the reactor, Warworks on the first floor do not need to be killed. When antimatter spawns $target will pick him up. Please keep $target buffed"
/macro 2nd "lc At this Reactor all 3 teams will focus on killing the EB Warwalkers as quickly as possible. If you get a power cell use it on the 2nd and 3rd floor of the reactor ASAP, do not use any power cells on the first floor"
/macro Tag "lc If possible, use 1 power cell on each of the top 6 Terminals to keep them unlocked when antimatter spawns. After all of the top 6 are tagged start filling them up"
/macro 3rd "lc At this Reactor all 3 team break into Bunkers. After all 3 Bunkers are broken into, dps teams head up to clear the top 2 floors of the reactor, cell collection team continue to collect power cells from bunkers as they restock"
/macro USE "lc Use any power cells you have acquired NOW! Only use power cells on the top 2 floors of the reactor, do not use any cells on the first floor"
/macro Dsnt "lc We will be fighting Antimatter next. If you are targetted by disintigration back away from other players and Antimatter. SHOUT OUT so that people know you are disintigrating. Pop Greens if necessary to survive."
/macro Pull "Bring Antimatter to the next Terminal at my location. Everyone back off of Antimatter and come to me. Use Taunts if necessary to move him over.

I don't have any macros for Lam and Baf because of their aforementioned lack of needing instruction. But yeah, the whole having to type out a novel thing doesnt really matter when you have macros to do it for you. Mine are just an example and fill my needs when I lead, you can of course make the macros however you want if you choose to do so.

I suggested they listen to Snow Globe in particular because his posts encompass the views of many of the players that he has led trough these trials and is not just his personal opinion.

In addition, if you look at what he is saying he is in fact right about these things and like it or not the devs "DO" need to listen to what he is saying. Failure to do so will in fact lead us further down the road we already know the majority of players don't want to go down.

I do Keyes now because I can actually do it with my squishy iTrial badger and not die with every other pulse and end up raging face down until the reactors are shut off. I even understand what's happening now that I'm not dieing all the time.

So while I understand that the elite gamers think it's been dumbed down, if it mean =I'm= playing it now, that means others are too. And that's good for the game.

And while I found the TPN iTrial to be very confusing, I know that'll go away as I do it a few more times.

--NT

I wasn't playing back before they softened Keyes, so I don't have anything to compare the current experience to. But I like Keyes the way it is now, at least in terms of the "difficulty factor". I'm not overly fond of the repetitive nature of the assaults on the three reactors, or the fact that the complex rules that deal with how you can or can not unlock the terminals are not very clearly laid out, but in terms of time spent vs. rewards gained I think Keyes hits something of a sweet spot for me. Though with TPN now "mastered" by leagues, it may become the new Keyes in this regard.

The current preferred strategy for TPN, as I understand it and have experienced it at least once so far (very recently), makes it very simple to understand and execute, though it also has elements of needless repetition and certain annoyance factors that can be irritating.

Basically it comes down to this: beat up stuff in the beginning until you are allowed in the buildings. Go into each building in turn, taunt the IDF away from the terminals and beat them up while "technician killers" take down the technicians and build up popular opinion. Ignore the citizens and telepathists outside. You keep cycling through the buildings doing this until popular opinion reaches 500 and everyone is teleported outside to defeat Maelstrom. Take him down (jump out of LOS if you are Marked for Death and wait for the red badge to go away before re-engaging). Go back and repeat the whole buildings-with-terminals phase again. Take down Maelstrom again. Done.

Repetitive, yes. Simple, definitely. Annoying, for sure, in that Maelstrom and the angry citizens will be hounding you (and one-shotting you) as you bounce from building to building, but even if a member or two of the league has trouble getting into any given building because of this, there is usually still enough firepower able to reach the terminal rooms to get the job done.

I have found that this process is so straightfoward as to be almost boring, and the rewards are monstrous. Astral merits and threads like any other trial, but you get 60 threads for the initial take-down of Maelstrom, and then you benefit from the 2/1 Empyrean merit schedule, and extra component drops at the end. If it weren't for the importance of +2/+3 level shifts, I really think TPN would replace BAF as the go-to trial to farm.