Invulnerability: Capped Smash/Lethal Without Tough
By
Caulderone,
Posted on: 2011-12-17 12:31 in Tankers
I like how it calls a 1.89% resistance bonus "Huge". 
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
The new proc in the Tanker ATIO set will net you 5-15% Resist to All quite easily.
So, you can use Cardiac and still be at the 90% cap.
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5-15%?|
Originally Posted by Caulderone
The new proc in the Tanker ATIO set will net you 5-15% Resist to All quite easily.
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Try upgrading it to Superior with an Enhancement Catalyst for a 20% max.
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How does the proc work? Does it make ALL of your attacks trigger it or just that one?
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
The new proc in the Tanker ATIO set will net you 5-15% Resist to All quite easily.
So, you can use Cardiac and still be at the 90% cap. |
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Just that attack, which IMO is a little unfair because the Brute (and AFAIK Scrapper) one is global and not tied to the attack it's slotted in. The Stalker one, AFAIK, is tied to the attack though.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
How does the proc work? Does it make ALL of your attacks trigger it or just that one?
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Personally, I tried it in Punch and then switched out to Haymaker for testing purposes.
It was not not hard to maintain stacked to max in either when attacking single targets.
It's a bit of a pain to juggle both it and Bruising if you have them on two different attacks, but mine is a special case because I can't slot the ATO/proc into Jab without a build revamp.
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So it can be enhanced via catalyst? And it gives 20% res all? For 10 seconds? Is it 100% chance to proc? Or is it like 100% chance for 5% res for 20 sec but stacks?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Just that attack, which IMO is a little unfair because the Brute (and AFAIK Scrapper) one is global and not tied to the attack it's slotted in. The Stalker one, AFAIK, is tied to the attack though.
Personally, I tried it in Punch and then switched out to Haymaker for testing purposes. It was not not hard to maintain stacked to max in either when attacking single targets. It's a bit of a pain to juggle both it and Bruising if you have them on two different attacks, but mine is a special case because I can't slot the ATO/proc into Jab without a build revamp. . |
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Each iteration of it is 5% res to all. It stacks up to three times. 3x5=15%.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
So it can be enhanced via catalyst? And it gives 20% res all? For 10 seconds? Is it 100% chance to proc? Or is it like 100% chance for 5% res for 20 sec but stacks?
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Enhancing it with a Catalyst makes it 3x6.7=20.1%
I don't think it has a 100% proc rate. I remember it whiffing a couple of times. The duration on each stack isn't listed, but I count 20 Mississippi's.
Also, it looks like it's currently bugged. The standard version of the proc doesn't proc at all, ever. It works if you upgrade it to Superior though.
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I'm still unclear on what those IOs availibility will be since I won't be buying those random packs. Hopefully I can get a set from the auction house and try it out.
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
The new proc in the Tanker ATIO set will net you 5-15% Resist to All quite easily.
So, you can use Cardiac and still be at the 90% cap. |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Each iteration of it is 5% res to all. It stacks up to three times. 3x5=15%.
Enhancing it with a Catalyst makes it 3x6.7=20.1% |
If this makes it live, it's quite awesome.
Also, as I recall, this can go into an AOE attack, yes? Does it proc per target?
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I disagree.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
If this makes it live, it's quite awesome.
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If anything, I proves my point about Tankers.
"Sure, give them 20% res to everything. It's not like they're going to do anything serious, they're already nigh unkillable. They're not suddenly going to start soloing Hamidon with it."
Look, ATOs are probably something most people will only do for their most important characters and their mains. My main Tank doesn't get killed by anything that's affected by damage resistance anyways, and besides he gets capped resistance to everything but Psi with Unstoppable already.
The procs for Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers help them out considerably regardless of build or power set combo, so I consider the Tanker proc the lame duck of the bunch. You're going to get a lot less out of it depending on your primary, and that's bogus IMO.
And don't drag thematics into it. Even Controllers got a damage proc and they're not about damage either. They're even less about damage than Tankers, they don't have a damage primary or secondary.
I see it as Tankers being told, yet again, "here's your shiny beads and $24, GTF back in your place".
I'm not surprised because we've known about this proc since last summer, but I am sure still not impressed by it regardless of the numbers.
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Welll.... I dunno.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I disagree.
If anything, I proves my point about Tankers. "Sure, give them 20% res to everything. It's not like they're going to do anything serious, they're already nigh unkillable. They're not suddenly going to start soloing Hamidon with it." Look, ATOs are probably something most people will only do for their most important characters and their mains. My main Tank doesn't get killed by anything that's affected by damage resistance anyways, and besides he gets capped resistance to everything but Psi with Unstoppable already. The procs for Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers help them out considerably regardless of build or power set combo, so I consider the Tanker proc the lame duck of the bunch. You're going to get a lot less out of it depending on your primary, and that's bogus IMO. And don't drag thematics into it. Even Controllers got a damage proc and they're not about damage either. They're even less about damage than Tankers, they don't have a damage primary or secondary. I see it as Tankers being told, yet again, "here's your shiny beads and $24, GTF back in your place". I'm not surprised because we've known about this proc since last summer, but I am sure still not impressed by it regardless of the numbers. . |
I just got the crap kicked outta me on my favorite invuln tank on the MoM. (Boy, wasn't THAT fun. )
An extra 20 percent +res would help.....
Well, except, against psi. FFFFFfffuuuuuu.......
Okay, how about tankers get a default 1 percent resists versus everything? Give this proc something to build off of....
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I was going to suggest you getting this proc over in the other thread. 20% to psi will help a bit.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Welll.... I dunno.
I just got the crap kicked outta me on my favorite invuln tank on the MoM. (Boy, wasn't THAT fun. ) |
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+20% to Psi would be the best part. I already have about 20% resistance in my build, it does make a difference (the 20% defense is probably a big part of that too.) Most Psi attacks seem to do a little less damage, or heal back if it's illusionary, so it doesn't take as much resistance to really notice a reduced effect.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
An extra 20 percent +res would help.....
Well, except, against psi. FFFFFfffuuuuuu....... |
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Actually Aracanaville just proved the Brute proc is useless. It does not do a thing to help them out.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I disagree.
If anything, I proves my point about Tankers. "Sure, give them 20% res to everything. It's not like they're going to do anything serious, they're already nigh unkillable. They're not suddenly going to start soloing Hamidon with it." Look, ATOs are probably something most people will only do for their most important characters and their mains. My main Tank doesn't get killed by anything that's affected by damage resistance anyways, and besides he gets capped resistance to everything but Psi with Unstoppable already. The procs for Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers help them out considerably regardless of build or power set combo, so I consider the Tanker proc the lame duck of the bunch. You're going to get a lot less out of it depending on your primary, and that's bogus IMO. And don't drag thematics into it. Even Controllers got a damage proc and they're not about damage either. They're even less about damage than Tankers, they don't have a damage primary or secondary. I see it as Tankers being told, yet again, "here's your shiny beads and $24, GTF back in your place". I'm not surprised because we've known about this proc since last summer, but I am sure still not impressed by it regardless of the numbers. . |
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10% increased fury generation on your own attacks will not increase your max fury substantially. It will increase the rate at which you reach it, but if you were hitting the 80s before, the increase in maximum will likely be negligible. If I remember correctly, the fury generation formula for your own attacks is this: 0.5 * [(100 - Fury)/20] ^ 2 That's the number of points of fury you gain per attack, with two limits: you cannot get credit for more than 10 attacks per second (essentially an irrelevant limit) and you cannot get more than five points of fury per attack even if fury is zero (the formula would imply 12.5 points of fury per attack when the fury is zero). You also get credit for attacks that hit you (its half the value per attack against you). Setting that aside for the moment, suppose you were generating one attack per second, which is a fairly high attack rate for a brute. Your attacks would be generating 1.56 fury per second at 50 fury, 1.0 fury per second at 60 fury, 0.56 fps at 70 fury, and only 0.25 fps at 80 fury. At 85 fury its only 0.14 fps. Another way to look at that is that it takes 79% higher fury generation activity to raise the equilibrium point of max fury from 80% to 85%. You have to more than double fury generation ability to get from 85% to 90%. You have to triple it to get from 90% to 95%. To get from 80% to 95% you have to figure out a way to generate 11 *times* more fury. And those are *total* increases, not just increases from your own attacks. Factoring in the fact that most brutes generate a substantial amount of fury from being attacked, increasing only the fury you generate with your own attacks has an even smaller effect on maximum fury equilibrium than those calculations above imply. __________________ |
And if you want the numbers Johnny I have them here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=1#post4043230
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I've got the world's smallest violin right here.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Actually Aracanaville just proved the Brute proc is useless. It does not do a thing to help them out.
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Just saying, couple posts up you are saying how it helps brutes considerably. The truth is, the Tanker probably gets the best proc of all the ATO's procs.
I'm not a fan of the Fighting Pool on Tanks, or any Melee AT really, because more melee attacks and toggles is just boring. So I don't take it, and I've gotten along fine without it.
When the Cardiac Alpha power came out, I noticed you could hit the Smash/Lethal resistance cap (90%) without Tough, but it took a crazy amount of overslotting and set bonuses. But with the new Resilient power, it was much more reasonable. I didn't have to overslot anything. The Shield Wall IO was obviously very expensive though, and I also used three Gladiator's Strike sets. But I did it:
I still prefer the Cardiac. Once you get used to that Endurance Reduction bonus, it's hard to live without. And my S/L resistance only drops to 85.91. I just did this for fun.