changing a set so that an unneeded power becomes a needed power is looked upon as a nerf by most players
as devs you have limited bad choices with bad powers in a set:
you can make them better and make the set better overall - bad if the set is already balanced
or you can rework the set to make the power better but nerf something else in the set - players do not like this
I'm not saying your idea is bad, but any change has to make a big improvement simply to be worth overcoming the automatic negative "it's a change" that the players have
Quote:
Only a daft player thinks that making a primary/secondary power more useful is a nerf.
|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
changing a set so that an unneeded power becomes a needed power is looked upon as a nerf by most players
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I'd love for Repulsion Field to be as nice as Hurricane, but I'd be careful about giving forcefields more Defense. And as someone who likes forcefields, it might seem odd, the the point is... that forcefields won't benefit much from more Defense. Why? Because a lone forcefield Defender can already near softcap the entire rest of the team with the single target bubbles, Dispersion Bubble, and Maneuvers.
So adding more defense, while nice to have, will only really have an effect in Incarnate content, and there it's not unusual to see Barriers and Leadership powers being slinged around casually. Add to that the use of Power Boost/Power Build Up/Clarion Destiny to boost the defense even further, and forcefields really has an overkill of Defense. What forcefields want is Defense Debuff Resistance. Now that would be nice to have.
To change Repulsion Field and Force Bubble, it would be best to look at the positioning and area denial aspects of it. I'd say adding a slow to Force Bubble for the few enemies that can resist the repel would be nice. Maybe a moderate ToHit debuff like it had way back when, but it's a fairly situational power, and sadly, when a situation where it would be nice appears, it's 50/50 on whether the targets get made resistant to repel.
I do like the -range of Repulsion Field. It's dirty. A repel/KB power that makes the enemy want to get closer. I'd perhaps make its radius a bit biger as some enemies can slip through and hit the bubbler in melee still, which really shouldn't happen with this thing on. A wild idea would be to make it a pseudo-pet you can drop. An enemy-free area on the battlefield. Could see some characters appreciating that.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
I've got to agree with McNum. Forcefield already has great defense. Giving it more won't improve the set.
What the set could really use is,.. well, just about anything else. Damage buffing. Some form of Debuffing ability (Other than -tohit really, since that's basically the same net effect as +Defense).
Forcefield's biggest problem is that it's essentially a 1 trick pony. While FF does have more tools than +Defense, they're a widely hated effect (Knockback).
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I've got to agree with McNum. Forcefield already has great defense. Giving it more won't improve the set.
What the set could really use is,.. well, just about anything else. Damage buffing. Some form of Debuffing ability (Other than -tohit really, since that's basically the same net effect as +Defense). Forcefield's biggest problem is that it's essentially a 1 trick pony. While FF does have more tools than +Defense, they're a widely hated effect (Knockback). |
Yes and no. Forcefield's real trick is allowing the user to simply "set and forget" with their big bubbles and concentrate out dishing out damage with the secondary, ancillary and epic pools (as well as Incarnate powers).
There's really not another set out there that allows you to do so. Doing it on most other sets or "rocking the aura" is frowned upon as "wasteful".
Sonic comes close, but it's more buff/debuff-oriented than FF.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Aha, you want to discuss the whole of Force Fields. Then I have a bit more to say. I see your point(s) that adding to the overall defense value is too simplistic, and - as you point out due to the soft caps - not very effective. I'm also very puzzled why the Devs always want to balance 'delivery' tags with 'type' tags. So...
Things I would suggest changing in the FF set:
Personal Force Field
Add +20% resistance(defense debuff) not enhance able
Deflection Shield
Change defense tags to only include: melee, AoE, smashing
Add +10% resistance(defense debuff) not enhance able
Insulation Shield
Change defense tags to only include: ranged, energy
Add +10% resistance(defense debuff) not enhance able
Dispersion Bubble
Change defense type to: base (drop all tags)
Add +10% resistance(defense debuff) not enhance able
Repulsion Field
Change radius of effect to 25 and these powers affect you and your teammates inside the radius:
Add +30% resistance(defense debuff) not enhance able
Add -25% range debuff not enhance able
Add -10% to hit debuff
Enhancements: Endurance, Knockback, Recharge, To Hit Debuff
Enhancement sets: Knockback, To Hit Debuff
Force Bubble
Change radius of effect to 30 and these powers affect you and your teammates inside the radius:
Add +10% defense(AoE, energy, smashing)
Add +10 protection(knockback) not enhance able
Add +20% resistance(defense debuff) not enhance able
Enhancements: Defense, Endurance, Range (increases radius), Recharge
Repel is a rare power and seems to only exist at a magnitude of zero or ten (most significantly, Controllers are not better with this control type power than Defenders or Masterminds). I feel there should be some gradient to this power. Allowing the radius of effect to be enhanced provides this gradient. Yours works at 30 feet, mine works at 36 feet (by slotting range), so when I push (i.e. move) you get repelled first.
Repulsion Field and Force Bubble now provide another layer of team protection on top of the Dispersion Bubble and not by just increasing the defense values. They combine for 50% defense debuff. The Repel and Knockdown effects interfere with melee opponents. The Range Debuff gives these effects a chance to interfere with opponents using Ranged attacks, and so the Defense boost is only needed against AoE attacks. And of course, the To Hit Debuff adds a completely different flavor of Defense.
Just call me "The Pool Guy" - cause I believe that power pools are the ultimate in powerset proliferation. Fewer powers to develop and available to all.
"ADVERBS - we define action!"
"ADVERSE - we are action!"
what i would do most is add a little bit more dmg to force bolt [and Gale for that matter] - nothing too intense but enough that should i choose to enhance well, it can be added to my attack chain, and i'd also add minor dmg to repulsion field for that matter.
i'd simply adore the set then.
Repulsion Field/Whirlwind/Hurricane
These three powers are conceptually similar in that the user generates a constant (or pulsing) outgoing force to counteract any and all incoming attacks. Yet they are not similar in game effects.
Hurricane provides a to-hit debuff, a range debuff, a Repel, and a knockback attack against all foes. Whirlwind offers a paltry knockback in comparison, and imposes speed and endurance penalties on the user. And while you might expect a Pool power to compare poorly to a Set power, the same is true for Repulsion Field. This power imposes an endurance penalty on the user and only produces a knockback attack against any foe (which is weaker than Hurricane). But the sad thing is that all three powers contain a flaw in their concept that makes their inequality pointless.
As any good comic book hero knows, when the target makes itself somehow unassailable, you switch to the indirect (area effect) attack. And yet returning to the concept, such a change in the enemys tactic should be meaningless. No sleet, smoke cloud, fumes, caltrops, rain of arrows, nor any other AoE attack should stand much chance of overpowering the waves of outgoing force.
My recommendation is to give all these powers the same baseline capability, that being:
+10% AoE defense
-20% ToHit debuff
-30% Range debuff
5.0 Knockback
1.0 Repel
For Hurricane: make the ToHit Debuff and Knockback enhanceable, double the Range debuff.
For Repulsion field: make the Defense and Knockback enhanceable, double the Repel.
For Whirlwind: make the Knockback enhanceable, add the self Slow(movement), and then add 3.0 Hold Protection and 30% Slow(movement) Resistance.
Make the appropriate adjustment for Class (ie Defenders would have 13.5% defense, Controllers 6.5 KB, etc).
Force Bubble
Lets also rethink this power. It too is missing key features. The PBAoE Repel provided by this power is the top PUSH power in the game, and yet it provides zero defense in kind. It needs knockback protection, it even needs Repel protection. It needs AoE defense improvement for the same reason the three powers above do. And it could certainly stand to have a little ToHit Debuff. Lets go with:
10.0 Repel
7.0 Knockback protection
5.0 Repel protection
-10% ToHit debuff
+15% AoE defense
Make the Defense and ToHit debuff enhanceable.
My main point here is that top end Bubblers rarely take (and never use) Dispersion Field, Repulsion Field, and Force Bubble together. Redesign the powers in this set so these three powers overlap and interlock into a comprehensive and powerful defensive package that makes the top end Bubbler the go to toon for area denial and point control. Of course, running all three of those powers at the same time will consume a lot of endurance forcing the Bubbler to focus on the thing they are best at - Defense!
Just call me "The Pool Guy" - cause I believe that power pools are the ultimate in powerset proliferation. Fewer powers to develop and available to all.
"ADVERBS - we define action!"
"ADVERSE - we are action!"