Dear Devs.. please read this.


Aggelakis

 

Posted

Why is it that when people join a Task Force and log out after 1 mission, still get rewards if the Task Force is completed. The people on the Task Force will enter missions designed for teams that include the people who logged out making it harder for the team, while the person who logged out, will get all the rewards as if he was there the whole time.
However, people on an Incarnate trail, who are there for the entire duration, but either crash or freeze at the end, don’t receive anything. I had this happen to me several times, and always get the same response from Customer Support how they can’t reward people who are not there at the end of a trail.

Last night was the straw for me, I lead a successful Mother of Mercy trail, however, the game crashed right at the end, and when I got back, they just finished it. I did not get the badge, Empyrean Merit and/or Astral Merit for completing this, while I only missed the last few minutes of the entire trail, basically meaning I wasted a good 45 minutes or more of my limited playing time, and that is not counting the time to build the solid league we had.

It is also a concern for people who want to try the Underground trail. They fear they might Crash or DC, and therefore will not get the Rare or Very Rare reward table. So instead of that, they just don’t run it out of fear of wasting an hour, or more, of their time.

Can we find a way to stop people’s frustration regarding this, since I know I’m not the only one who got cheated out of rewards. I understand that a Reward table is hard to provide, but I’d be happy with 10 or more threads, the Astral Merits and if necessary the Empyrean Merit and any earned Badges from that trail.
Either this, or remove the ’cheat version’ on the regular Task Forces.

Signed,
A very unhappy customer.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
Why is it that when people join a Task Force and log out after 1 mission, still get rewards if the Task Force is completed. The people on the Task Force will enter missions designed for teams that include the people who logged out making it harder for the team, while the person who logged out, will get all the rewards as if he was there the whole time.
No they won't. They will only get the rewards if they are present for enough of the last mission to get the end of mission bonus.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
Why is it that when people join a Task Force and log out after 1 mission, still get rewards if the Task Force is completed. The people on the Task Force will enter missions designed for teams that include the people who logged out making it harder for the team, while the person who logged out, will get all the rewards as if he was there the whole time.
Been playing since Issue Zero; never seen this happen. In fact, it should work the same as iTrials - if you don't participate enough or don't finish it with everyone else, you aren't rewarded.*

*Unless everyone else drops the TF, leaving you as the sole TF member, and you complete the TF solo.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
No they won't. They will only get the rewards if they are present for enough of the last mission to get the end of mission bonus.
Not to my knowledge, but even if that is the case, who not on Incarnate Trails? I know several people DC'd, crashed or what not during trails and even during the final fight. Esp the latter one sucks, cause it will take away all rewards.

I even crashed on a Lambda fighting Marauder, got back in game, click the 'Rejoin Last Event' and at the time i was loading they completed it. Leaving me without rewards and even the 'Exit' button didn't show up.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
Been playing since Issue Zero; never seen this happen. In fact, it should work the same as iTrials - if you don't participate enough or don't finish it with everyone else, you aren't rewarded.*

*Unless everyone else drops the TF, leaving you as the sole TF member, and you complete the TF solo.
I got kicked from a STF cause i didn't want to keep fighting the ship for merits while Reculuse and his towers get back to full health.
My friend and SG mate quit cause i got kicked, 30 minutes later we both got the reward pop up, and he even got the badge, i had the badge already.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
Been playing since Issue Zero; never seen this happen. In fact, it should work the same as iTrials - if you don't participate enough or don't finish it with everyone else, you aren't rewarded.*

*Unless everyone else drops the TF, leaving you as the sole TF member, and you complete the TF solo.
Just to point out, if everyone else drops the TF, the TF disbands entirely. Everyone but one person can drop out, the other teammate can log off and leave you in a "solo built for two" TF.

There is content that utilizes the TF mechanic that you can play solo, like architect and SSA...not real TFs though.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

Wait do you're complaining people get rewards on TFs they exit and don't get rewards on Trials they leave?

The TF reward thing is wrong anyway, as Aggelakis and Obsidius said. Dual boxers who solo TFs leave the second toon on the entrance of every mission to get double rewards.

You should see why you're crashing, the game interprets that like you logged out. My client basically never crashes (unless I use the Mac one, which is just awful).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
I got kicked from a STF cause i didn't want to keep fighting the ship for merits while Reculuse and his towers get back to full health.
My friend and SG mate quit cause i got kicked, 30 minutes later we both got the reward pop up, and he even got the badge, i had the badge already.
I'd classify that as a bug then. That's NOT WAI.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
I'd classify that as a bug then. That's NOT WAI.
Maybe not a bug.

As I understand it, getting the rewards for a TF are based pretty much entirely on if you spend a sufficient amount of time on the map of the last mission in the TF. They might have spent enough time in the final mission to qualify before being kicked.

I didn't know the reward system still tracked you after leaving the TF though. Maybe that's some new anti-griefing code? (to prevent a TF leader from kicking everyone in the last few seconds of the last mission)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
However, people on an Incarnate trail, who are there for the entire duration, but either crash or freeze at the end, don’t receive anything. I had this happen to me several times, and always get the same response from Customer Support how they can’t reward people who are not there at the end of a trail.
If you've truely crashed (and not logged out), you know that the trial is about to end, and you won't be able to return in time to get back into the trial before it ends, then I have a suggestion that I've tried once and had work that once (because I don't crash much in trials anymore).

-Don't- log back in (i.e. enter your credentials in the log in screen) until after you believe the trial is over.

If you do enter your credentials, the moment the little box pops up saying your character is logged in is the moment that your character gets kicked from the trial, and you won't get any chance at rewards unless you manage to get through all the loading screens and back into the trial.

If, on the other hand, you wait - your character will still be online, in the trial, and doing nothing (the server-side disconnected timeout is several minutes). When you do log back in you will get the rewards box (and as I said, I've managed to do this once).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siluria View Post
If you've truely crashed (and not logged out), you know that the trial is about to end, and you won't be able to return in time to get back into the trial before it ends, then I have a suggestion that I've tried once and had work that once (because I don't crash much in trials anymore).

-Don't- log back in (i.e. enter your credentials in the log in screen) until after you believe the trial is over.

If you do enter your credentials, the moment the little box pops up saying your character is logged in is the moment that your character gets kicked from the trial, and you won't get any chance at rewards unless you manage to get through all the loading screens and back into the trial.

If, on the other hand, you wait - your character will still be online, in the trial, and doing nothing (the server-side disconnected timeout is several minutes). When you do log back in you will get the rewards box (and as I said, I've managed to do this once).
As much as i'd hate myself for leaving my team alone, and having them fight without me, i'll try it to see what it does.
With all honesty, i thought about this so many times, i just can't patiently wait, thinking my league run into a hiccup, are waiting for me or think i'm just being a ******. I know most on the server know be by just that toon, they know how i am, but it's just how i feel.. fall in battle, get your behind back to the front line asap, same reason why i hate that timer in the trail hosps.

But yeah, i'll try it out, and i hope that people will understand.

Thnx for the tip



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

Earlier this year I was having a lot of crashes from memory leaks near the end of trials, and missed out on several reward tables. So I sympathize.

I don't know if this is still the case, but years ago I was on a mission and the leader kicked me for some silly reason. Afterwards I was running down the street and all of a sudden I got an end of mission reward out of the blue and I leveled.

It would be interesting to test whether that still works. If so, the logic for detecting this kind of problem is obviously there and the intention is that you get the end of mission reward if you're there long enough and still logged on. The only problem with crashing is that you're disconnected and your session information is lost, as well as the trial data if everyone else exited.

Obviously the devs could add code that would decide whether you were on the trial long enough to deserve a reward when a disconnect or kick is detected, and if so remember this and bring up the appropriate reward table when you next log in.

The question is whether it's worth the effort doing this. I'd rather have them spend the time fixing the crashes than implementing kludges to correct for them. So the questions are:

How frequently do people disconnect due to Internet connectivity problems under these circumstances?

And what constitutes "being on the trial long enough to deserve a reward?" Many of the trials already have significant rewards (astrals in all and 60 threads in some) for partial completion of the trial, so to get the end reward table you pretty much need to complete most of the final conflict. For Lambda and BAF it would seem that you'd have to be present for most of the final AV encounters, say, until they were down to 20%.

Since that last 20% goes by pretty fast, probably only a minute or so, the number of people who disconnect in that short window is very small relative to the number of people running trials.

Is it worth the effort? If the devs had considered this issue during the initial design of the system it probably wouldn't have been a big deal to implement. But adding new design hooks like this to an existing system is messy, and is often the source of future bugs.


 

Posted

I just tested this out, and if you're kicked from a team you still appear to get all the rewards at the end of the mission if you were on the team long enough.

To test this I ran a tip mission with one account and invited a character from my 99-cent second account. I completed the defeat objectives (two named NPCs, Flambeaux and Blast Furnace, I think), and then kicked the second character, who was ejected from the mission after 10 seconds.

I then defeated one spawn around the two glowies and clicked the glowies. The character that had been kicked got normal end-of-mission rewards, including credit for completing a tip mission:

Code:
You gain 1,237 experience and 1,485 influence.
Federation of Superheroes gains 95 prestige.
You were kicked from the team
[NPC] Jimmy: I know it'll be okay. I just saw La Flamme Fatale.
You gain 4,167 experience and 3,751 influence.
Federation of Superheroes gains 568 prestige.
You gain 4,167 experience and 3,751 influence.
Federation of Superheroes gains 568 prestige.
Congratulations! You earned the Walking the Path badge.
Congratulations! You earned the Ear to the Street badge.
Congratulations! You earned the Collector badge.
Congratulations! You earned the Kaolin Legacy of Earth badge.
It seems that, at least at one point, the devs made an effort to give characters rewards for participation if they aren't actually present at the end of the mission, at least if you were still logged in. Another test that should be conducted is to log out or DCing just before completing the mission, and then log back in, then have the character in the mission complete it without inviting you back.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
I just tested this out, and if you're kicked from a team you still appear to get all the rewards at the end of the mission if you were on the team long enough.

To test this I ran a tip mission with one account and invited a character from my 99-cent second account. I completed the defeat objectives (two named NPCs, Flambeaux and Blast Furnace, I think), and then kicked the second character, who was ejected from the mission after 10 seconds.

I then defeated one spawn around the two glowies and clicked the glowies. The character that had been kicked got normal end-of-mission rewards, including credit for completing a tip mission:
Thank you Rodion for reaffirming what i always said.
It should be either both, or none.

As i said, the 1st MoM i did, i led, and it was a success, yet i have nothing to show for it, nothing at all.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
Thank you Rodion for reaffirming what i always said.
I just want to point out that Rodion didn't reaffirm what you said, but what *I* said. You said you could log out with the first mission, never come back, and still get the rewards at the end. I said you have to be present for enough of the last mission to get the rewards. Rodion proved me right, not you.

The Trials work differently, most likely due to the participation metric (there is no participation metric in a TF).


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
I just want to point out that Rodion didn't reaffirm what you said, but what *I* said. You said you could log out with the first mission, never come back, and still get the rewards at the end. I said you have to be present for enough of the last mission to get the rewards. Rodion proved me right, not you.

The Trials work differently, most likely due to the participation metric (there is no participation metric in a TF).
Also, a TF is a series of missions, whereas a Trial is usually just one long mission. Therefore, the participation metric will be different between these two activity types.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Energon View Post
I got kicked from a STF cause i didn't want to keep fighting the ship for merits while Reculuse and his towers get back to full health.
My friend and SG mate quit cause i got kicked, 30 minutes later we both got the reward pop up, and he even got the badge, i had the badge already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
I'd classify that as a bug then. That's NOT WAI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
I just want to point out that Rodion didn't reaffirm what you said, but what *I* said. You said you could log out with the first mission, never come back, and still get the rewards at the end. I said you have to be present for enough of the last mission to get the rewards. Rodion proved me right, not you.

The Trials work differently, most likely due to the participation metric (there is no participation metric in a TF).
Let us give credit where it is due, we can share it, i have no issue with that.. i'm not a spotlight hog :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
Also, a TF is a series of missions, whereas a Trial is usually just one long mission. Therefore, the participation metric will be different between these two activity types.
Second, Now with the new MoM trail, the solo mission isn't true anymore.
MoM is 4 missions, the 'rest' period with Des is not part of the mission, and we con +1, not +2 or +3 during our time there.



Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Posted

I tested the following:

Ran a radio mission with two characters. Do everything including getting the glowie, but not defeating the boss. Logged out character B. Logged back in without inviting character B back to team. Had character A defeat the boss, ending the mission.

Character B gets inf and prestige out of the blue for having participated in the mission.

I'll try ending the mission with character B still logged out, but I'm guessing I won't get anything when I log back in.