Few suggestions for a PvP initiate
By
Black_Assassin,
Posted on: 2011-11-24 08:28 in Everything about PvP
with burnout and the EA buff, it makes very little sense to roll anything other than an /EA stalker unless you're broke.
elec, spines and claws should the primaries you're choosing from.
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I am just curious but why is /EA the only way to roll? They still have a gaping psi hole don't they?
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Originally Posted by recalx
with burnout and the EA buff, it makes very little sense to roll anything other than an /EA stalker unless you're broke.
elec, spines and claws should the primaries you're choosing from. |
@-Kurgain
-FAP-Renegades-Whirligig-Velocity-Bedlam
not while in overload.
and with burnout, you'll be in overload for well over half the match.
on top of that you get a good heal.
repel resists.
and a defense secondary which allows you to actually get into hide while you're being spiked.
Quote:
I didn't realize overload fixed the issue. I guess I will have to look into this and possibly dust off my nrg/ea.
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Originally Posted by recalx
not while in overload.
and with burnout, you'll be in overload for well over half the match. on top of that you get a good heal. repel resists. and a defense secondary which allows you to actually get into hide while you're being spiked. |
@-Kurgain
-FAP-Renegades-Whirligig-Velocity-Bedlam
Ninjitsu can be tough too and can also do burnout/retsu. Although, you shouldn't really be dying on a Stalker, regardless the secondary.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
You can also try Willpower or Elec Armor. WP is just super easy to build, though it you can make EA or Ninjitsu far more survivable on a decent build with burnout. Elec Armor is the only decent res based secondary for Stalkers, and it can be fairly sturdy.
As Mr. Recalx over there said, Elec Melee, Spines, or Claws are your best bets for primaries. I am personally a fan of Spines.
Also, in-case you weren't sure, the strategy to a Stalker is more hit and run then anything. If you're sitting around after ASing or getting some sort of attack chain off then you are doing it wrong.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
If you are just getting started and don't want to spend a lot of Inf, go Sharks/WP stalker. Mage can attest to how easy it is to use a WP stalker, there are a lot of arena goers that have so'd or minimally io'd out WP stalkers that we use to zone. And your primary does not matter, learn to AS or just be a Shrak blaster with capped stealth. The choice is yours and yours alone here on the legends of zone pvp.
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Sorry but your wrong.... |
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
If you're sitting around after ASing or getting some sort of attack chain off then you are doing it wrong.
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AS,Shark Hold,Pyronic Judgement = 1605 hp or less dead
I would recomend having reactitve with dmg resist/fire dot and tier 4 dmg alpha also.
You won't always prevent a heal or phase but I get pleanty of kills with that attack chain and the animations are short enough that you can still evade. If your AS procs you don't even need the shark hold.
@-Kurgain
-FAP-Renegades-Whirligig-Velocity-Bedlam
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I think maybe you took what I said too literally; the point of what I said isn't to say what your exact method of attacking should be, just that you are best suited for hit and run. However you get your kills no matter what attack chain doesn't really matter, as long as you are in the mindset that Stalkers are burst damage hit and run damage dealers. If you are playing it like a Blaster or any other Melee toon, then you are doing it wrong, that's really all I was getting at.|
Originally Posted by Like_Woah
Sorry but your wrong....
AS,Shark Hold,Pyronic Judgement = 1605 hp or less dead I would recomend having reactitve with dmg resist/fire dot and tier 4 dmg alpha also. You won't always prevent a heal or phase but I get pleanty of kills with that attack chain and the animations are short enough that you can still evade. If your AS procs you don't even need the shark hold. |
Also, relying on Judgement for kills is not the way to go imo. It won't be up for every attack chain unless you are only attacking every 90 seconds, which would be kind of a waste. Stalkers are best suited for teams where they are dishing out massive amounts of damage very quickly to solidify kills. Stalkers generally have a harder time soloing then most other damage dealing ATs, especially when you are fighting a zone full of incarnated Scrappers and Blasters that will just rebirth if you get them low solo and then proceed to kill you. The only real effective way to play a solo Stalker in zone is to just steal kills, more or less.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Other thing to keep in mind is that Stalkers are apparently scheduled for some sort of major buff in i22, which is more geared towards PvE, but would yield some obvious benefits to PvP Stalkers.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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I think your outlook on a stalker is a bit narrow minded and if you run off from anything right off the bat if it has 1605 hp or less your missing out on possible kills. While I agree its not smart to generally mess with hp capped scrappers you forget there are more than enough baddos in this game to pick off. Anything under 1605 hp is fair game. I mearly mentioned that chain combo because you said using combos of any kind = your doing it wrong. Since stalkers started in pvp they have needed to combo to get kills even when it was as simple as AS+ET. As far as Pyronic not being worth it, you said yourself stalkers are opportunistic so Pyronic is up when I actually have an opportunity to use it without 5 people jumping on me. If you play your stalker right you have a few diff ways to evade/hide...Hibernate, Phase, Barrier, Placate, Fly pack and Teleport. The pvp point system is a joke and there is no tally of kill to death ratio so if you die 3 times but get 6 kills then hey that is 6 chances at a rare pvp IO. If you wait and only get 2 kills and zero deaths, good job on a self accomplishment but who wouldn't want 4 more chances at a rare. I know this AT is in sad shape but there is no need to paint the AT as a strick kill stealer to be zone viable solo. Stalkers do have a small nitch but a good one and can still be very nasty to cope with in a zone for any player minus a few very well built tanks.
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Originally Posted by The Katalyst
Also, relying on Judgement for kills is not the way to go imo. It won't be up for every attack chain unless you are only attacking every 90 seconds, which would be kind of a waste. Stalkers are best suited for teams where they are dishing out massive amounts of damage very quickly to solidify kills. Stalkers generally have a harder time soloing then most other damage dealing ATs, especially when you are fighting a zone full of incarnated Scrappers and Blasters that will just rebirth if you get them low solo and then proceed to kill you. The only real effective way to play a solo Stalker in zone is to just steal kills, more or less. |
@-Kurgain
-FAP-Renegades-Whirligig-Velocity-Bedlam
Quote:
I don't understand where you get narrow minded, I ammended what I said to be "Anything you have to do to get kills within the playstyle of a Stalker" basically. I never said that combos of any kind means you are doing it wrong, that first statement was a bit of hyperbole to try and get the point across. There's no 1 correct way to play any toon, but there are ways to play toons that are proven effective and ways that are not.|
Originally Posted by Like_Woah
I think your outlook on a stalker is a bit narrow minded and if you run off from anything right off the bat if it has 1605 hp or less your missing out on possible kills. While I agree its not smart to generally mess with hp capped scrappers you forget there are more than enough baddos in this game to pick off. Anything under 1605 hp is fair game. I mearly mentioned that chain combo because you said using combos of any kind = your doing it wrong. Since stalkers started in pvp they have needed to combo to get kills even when it was as simple as AS+ET. As far as Pyronic not being worth it, you said yourself stalkers are opportunistic so Pyronic is up when I actually have an opportunity to use it without 5 people jumping on me. If you play your stalker right you have a few diff ways to evade/hide...Hibernate, Phase, Barrier, Placate, Fly pack and Teleport. The pvp point system is a joke and there is no tally of kill to death ratio so if you die 3 times but get 6 kills then hey that is 6 chances at a rare pvp IO. If you wait and only get 2 kills and zero deaths, good job on a self accomplishment but who wouldn't want 4 more chances at a rare. I know this AT is in sad shape but there is no need to paint the AT as a strick kill stealer to be zone viable solo. Stalkers do have a small nitch but a good one and can still be very nasty to cope with in a zone for any player minus a few very well built tanks.
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My main point was and still is if you are playing a Stalker like anything but a Stalker, as a burst damage hit and run type of toon, then you are doing it wrong. That doesn't mean that all you can do is AS and run, though that is a strategy. I'm honestly not sure why this is even a disagreement, because I don't disagree that playing Stalkers is not 1 dimensional, but they do have limitations, and as you said, a particular niche in PvP.
Also, as far as k:d ratio type of things go, a lot of people do take personal pride in their ability to survive in PvP while still getting kills. Just because it's not reflected in points doesn't mean people should just forget about it, that is more of a narrow minded concept then saying Stalkers are limited to some limited optimal playstyles.
EDIT: k:d in caps showed up as K
, bad forums are bad.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Also, any advice given on the forums regarding playstyle for either PvP or PvE should probably be taken with a grain of salt, whether it's from me or not. My playstyle may not appeal to other people and vice versa, and just because I say "this is what it is" doesn't make it undeniably true. Playstyle's evolve as time goes on, what we know as the "best way to play x AT" may be outdated in the future.
That doesn't mean it's worthless to share your views on the way you think something should be played, it just means that you should take what you can from it that you like and reformulate on your own what you don't.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Katalyst
Also, any advice given on the forums regarding playstyle for either PvP or PvE should probably be taken with a grain of salt, whether it's from me or not. My playstyle may not appeal to other people and vice versa, and just because I say "this is what it is" doesn't make it undeniably true. Playstyle's evolve as time goes on, what we know as the "best way to play x AT" may be outdated in the future.
That doesn't mean it's worthless to share your views on the way you think something should be played, it just means that you should take what you can from it that you like and reformulate on your own what you don't. |
I guess my challenge comes from being curious as to your history of playing a stalker in pvp. For example I play my stalkers about 50% of all the pvp time I put in. the rest is on a dark/em blaster, and have been regarded highly by many of the better old and current players for my stalker playing ability. ( I certainly won't make that claim on my blaster) I have also leveled more than 5 different stalkers with various primaries and secondaries and played most of them in either arena officials or heavy zone use. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers and I learn new stuff every day but I try to be careful to only post about things that I feel certain of or just troll in troll bait threads. With that being said you have stated multiple things that from my stand point make me think you haven't played the AT much outside of some limited zone experience. For example in another thread you stated you wouldn't completely proc out AS or Sharks.... to me that is just blasphemy, as you use both of those powers more than any other attack a stalker has. Then you post a build with 21% dmg increase and still tell him to go with the dmg alpha. Tier 4 dmg alpha offers a 45% dmg increase...why even direct bonuses towards dmg then with the effects of DR when a proc will net better results? Depending on your secondary and with the addition of incarnates the only thing you MUST do is max out your HP and recharge and have a stealth IO. Alpha for dmg and work on other stats seccondary such as range/regen/resists. Everything else is more play style related. Do you need any of what I just posted to be pvp relevant...no, but it will give you a better shot at getting a kill. Certain things have always been true about pvp in this game and should be taken as truisms IE: If your going to pvp on a blaster why would you not take Aim and Build Up? Same with maxing out your AS with 3 hami Acc/dmg and 3 procs...even if they only has a 20% proc rate that is still 1 out of 5 and will do more dmg on average than an AS with over a 61% dmg increase from Alpha and bonuses that just gets DRed into the ground .
TLDR: Be ready for people to take what you said literally when they are looking for advice. Its different to think you know how to play a class vs knowing your playing the class the best of its ability by all current standards. I would also like to mention that my opinion of playing the class the best is to maximize my k : d ratio and pvp drops. As you pointed out before, if your Rping or play in pvp for different reasons than that, ignore what I posted.
@-Kurgain
-FAP-Renegades-Whirligig-Velocity-Bedlam
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I've PvP'd in this game since i6 bro, my first PvP toon ever was a Stalker. Just because I didn't start doing arena PvP until recently doesn't make my advice invalid. I've literally played every AT in this game in zone, and many of them in 8v8 after i13. I've played a lot of the FotMs and had a good measure of success in zone PvP with most toons I've ever PvP'd with. I've played all the Blaster FotMs, my main PvP toon was a Stalker before IOs when ET was still good, and not ASing on a Stalker was considered unheard of for a succesful Stalker. I played Forts in i12, I had a Rad/Sonic before i13, and I currently have most of the main FotMs for post-i13, and can play them all competently. I'm not claiming to be really good at everything I play, but I have a pretty good understanding of how each AT works, especially in a team environment, especially in a post-i13 setting.|
Originally Posted by Like_Woah
I guess my challenge comes from being curious as to your history of playing a stalker in pvp. For example I play my stalkers about 50% of all the pvp time I put in. the rest is on a dark/em blaster, and have been regarded highly by many of the better old and current players for my stalker playing ability. ( I certainly won't make that claim on my blaster) I have also leveled more than 5 different stalkers with various primaries and secondaries and played most of them in either arena officials or heavy zone use. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers and I learn new stuff every day but I try to be careful to only post about things that I feel certain of or just troll in troll bait threads. With that being said you have stated multiple things that from my stand point make me think you haven't played the AT much outside of some limited zone experience. For example in another thread you stated you wouldn't completely proc out AS or Sharks.... to me that is just blasphemy, as you use both of those powers more than any other attack a stalker has. Then you post a build with 21% dmg increase and still tell him to go with the dmg alpha. Tier 4 dmg alpha offers a 45% dmg increase...why even direct bonuses towards dmg then with the effects of DR when a proc will net better results? Depending on your secondary and with the addition of incarnates the only thing you MUST do is max out your HP and recharge and have a stealth IO. Alpha for dmg and work on other stats seccondary such as range/regen/resists. Everything else is more play style related. Do you need any of what I just posted to be pvp relevant...no, but it will give you a better shot at getting a kill. Certain things have always been true about pvp in this game and should be taken as truisms IE: If your going to pvp on a blaster why would you not take Aim and Build Up? Same with maxing out your AS with 3 hami Acc/dmg and 3 procs...even if they only has a 20% proc rate that is still 1 out of 5 and will do more dmg on average than an AS with over a 61% dmg increase from Alpha and bonuses that just gets DRed into the ground .
TLDR: Be ready for people to take what you said literally when they are looking for advice. Its different to think you know how to play a class vs knowing your playing the class the best of its ability by all current standards. I would also like to mention that my opinion of playing the class the best is to maximize my k : d ratio and pvp drops. As you pointed out before, if your Rping or play in pvp for different reasons than that, ignore what I posted. |
I think the reason you don't understand the advice about AS procs or the Musculature is because you don't understand the math behind them. The melee procs outside of the Heca proc and the Glad Strike proc have a lower chance to proc then any other damage proc in the game. That makes a huge difference. Is it ridiculous to put them in a build? No, they do proc sometimes, but AS is not an attack that you spam so it won't be often. Is it ridiculous to NOT put them in a build? No, you can get some set bonuses in AS that you can only get by omitting the 3rd proc. My reasoning for not procing out Sharks wasn't that it wasn't a smart idea, but that doing it can be very expensive since the Glad Jav proc can be upwards of 1 bill influence. If you have the money and want to spend it, go for it, it will help. If not, then don't.
As for Alpha, you are completely wrong on that one. Alpha and Set Bonuses work on completely separate totals. Alpha adds to your enhancement values directly, while Set Bonuses multiply them by whatever percentage the set bonus offers. That is the math of it, you can argue against it all you want, but unlike playstyle, math is not subjective. DR also effects both of those totals separately.
As for you continuing to insist on disagreeing with my advice on playstyle, I've said twice now that I don't disagree with the playstyle you suggested. I offered a very vague way to play a Stalker, and said anything within the realm of that playstyle is the way I would do it. The way you suggested would be within that realm, as you are attempting to deal a lot of damage very quickly from Hide.
This is also a really dumb argument to be having in a thread where somebody is asking for PvP advice. This is probably the type of thing that people cite when saying that the attitudes of PvPers turn them off, and in this case, I would say it is justified.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Thanks for the suggestions, folks! I already have a Stalker in mind (KM/WP). We'll see how it works out.
I would also like to build a toon to be a "pain in the ****" to the opponents. A debuffer/sapper. Something like an Elec/Therm Corruptor or maybe even Rad/Psi. Any suggestions?
Thanks again.
Edit: I would be willing to spend a decent amount of inf on this second toon.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
Kat, you can't kill a capped squishy with a double AS without procs. And those 2 33% procs go off so often I'd say something crazy like 1/3 of the time.
Btw this pissing match can be won by walrus of CotD since he had the most AS's in the match vs Renegades.
To the OP just run around in hide mocking other pvpers, it's really fun.
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is walrus zero?
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Originally Posted by daknah
btw this pissing match can be won by walrus of cotd since he had the most as's in the match vs renegades. . |
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somewhat incorrect.|
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
As for Alpha, you are completely wrong on that one. Alpha and Set Bonuses work on completely separate totals. Alpha adds to your enhancement values directly, while Set Bonuses multiply them by whatever percentage the set bonus offers. That is the math of it, you can argue against it all you want, but unlike playstyle, math is not subjective. DR also effects both of those totals separately. |
i'll elaborate when i'm not at work.
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I wasn't trying to turn it into a pissing match, just seems to happen around here.|
Originally Posted by Daknah
Kat, you can't kill a capped squishy with a double AS without procs. And those 2 33% procs go off so often I'd say something crazy like 1/3 of the time.
Btw this pissing match can be won by walrus of CotD since he had the most AS's in the match vs Renegades. To the OP just run around in hide mocking other pvpers, it's really fun. |
In terms of the proc thing, what you just said supports my point more then anything. I was saying the only 2 procs that you need are the 33% ones, while the Mako/ToD procs are more optional because the chance for them to go off is much lower, like 10-15% depending on which proc you're talking about if I'm remembering correctly.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Quote:
The most obvious answer for that type of toon, which is what we usually call disruption, is a grav/TA or some other type of TA corr or troller. That's basically a straight disruption toon, not good for much else... Poisons have the potential to be fairly disruptive also. Therms can obviously be very annoying as well with HE, and can also do decent offense and some limited Support.|
Originally Posted by False_Fiction
Thanks for the suggestions, folks! I already have a Stalker in mind (KM/WP). We'll see how it works out.
I would also like to build a toon to be a "pain in the ****" to the opponents. A debuffer/sapper. Something like an Elec/Therm Corruptor or maybe even Rad/Psi. Any suggestions? Thanks again. Edit: I would be willing to spend a decent amount of inf on this second toon. |
You can play a lot of toons to be disruptive, a lot of what goes into disruption is the mindset... For just straight up chaotic disruption, TA is still the obvious choice, but whether or not you want to dedicate a toon to solely that playstyle or not would determine what choice you make. Rad/Psy is a great toon, but I wouldn't categorize it as any type of disruption... It's less of a pain in the *** type of toon and more of an offensive debuffer, but obviously one of the best for that. They can be pretty annoying in zone I guess, with their debuff toggles causing indefinite TS.
Also, if by pain in the *** you just meant something that was so dangerous that it has to be killed, and meant less of a pain in the *** in terms of just pure annoyance, then this post is probably less helpful for you then I thought it would be.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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Thanks. And yes, I was talking about pure annoyance factor. I didn't expect the answer to be TA, even though I understand why. I doubt I'd have fun with it, honestly. So, I'll give some sort of debuffer with damage potential a try instead.|
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
The most obvious answer for that type of toon, which is what we usually call disruption, is a grav/TA or some other type of TA corr or troller. That's basically a straight disruption toon, not good for much else... Poisons have the potential to be fairly disruptive also. Therms can obviously be very annoying as well with HE, and can also do decent offense and some limited Support.
You can play a lot of toons to be disruptive, a lot of what goes into disruption is the mindset... For just straight up chaotic disruption, TA is still the obvious choice, but whether or not you want to dedicate a toon to solely that playstyle or not would determine what choice you make. Rad/Psy is a great toon, but I wouldn't categorize it as any type of disruption... It's less of a pain in the *** type of toon and more of an offensive debuffer, but obviously one of the best for that. They can be pretty annoying in zone I guess, with their debuff toggles causing indefinite TS. Also, if by pain in the *** you just meant something that was so dangerous that it has to be killed, and meant less of a pain in the *** in terms of just pure annoyance, then this post is probably less helpful for you then I thought it would be. |
Again, thanks for the input.
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
don't be dumb.
with judgement and reactive, everything has damage potential.
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Sounds like something like a Fire/Posion would suit you.
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Originally Posted by False_Fiction
I doubt I'd have fun with it, honestly. So, I'll give some sort of debuffer with damage potential a try instead.
Again, thanks for the input. |
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Hello all.
I thought I'd give PvP a try after all this years PvEing on and off.
I know very little about PvP, so I'd thought I'd just ask for a few combos to start with. I won't be investing 10bil on a build since I'm not aiming to be a hardcore PvPer anyway.
So, I'd like to have a support/debuffer toon and two hard hitting toons (ranged and melee). I do have a Ice/Cold corr and a Psy/Em put aside - guess I could dust'em off if they're any good.
Seems Stalkers are getting a very decent boost on I22, so I thought I would roll one of those aswell.
I'll probably end up asking for a build aswell, but for now all I'd just ask for help deciding the combos.
Thanks in advance,
Falsey
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]