I agree. A -regen debuff and/or a mez protection clickie power would be great.
In fact, with new powers like, that I'd have to consider specing out of the medicine pool.
If I did spec out of the med pool I'd have three powers...so, yeah, Dechs' pony idea too.
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-Regen, gotcha|
Originally Posted by AIB
I agree. A -regen debuff and/or a mez protection clickie power would be great.
In fact, with new powers like, that I'd have to consider specing out of the medicine pool. If I did spec out of the med pool I'd have three powers...so, yeah, Dechs' pony idea too. |
I was considering this on the 'shade side of my idea. and -resist on the 'Bringer sideQuote:
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
What they said, and a purple pony.
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Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
What he said, and a Mezz protection click, like Psi Mastery's Indomitable Will.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
My Warshade taps into the essence of your soul to debuff your regen by 500%.
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Alot of what might benefit a Kheld is there to be had as an Incarnate I thought.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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It is, this "research" thing kind of got thrown off of topic...*COUGH*SEP,STONE,DECHS*COUGH*
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
Alot of what might benefit a Kheld is there to be had as an Incarnate I thought.
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While I do agree that the incarnate abilities are there to patch some of the holes in different ATs, like the clarion destiny patching the status protection hole on WSs, I do think that maybe having a click power along the lines of like practiced brawler from Super Reflexes might be a nice addition, if they don't give us a toggle.
My circle is more like an egg. . .a handicapped egg. - A math professor
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I was considering that. After learning some "new" information from Stone. I decided to re-vamp my idea...It involved WAY to much work to be accomplished. |
Originally Posted by Kemphler
While I do agree that the incarnate abilities are there to patch some of the holes in different ATs, like the clarion destiny patching the status protection hole on WSs, I do think that maybe having a click power along the lines of like practiced brawler from Super Reflexes might be a nice addition, if they don't give us a toggle.
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I'll be sure to include a click mez-protection power.
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You must really play on some crappy PUG teams. Not to underestimate a WS (the 'so' easy to make 2 billion ws, naturally they are VERY common) I'd love to see how one WS makes the entire team worthless. A kin using FS and giving the TEAM capped damage, not just yours? Worthless. A sonic giving everyone almost capped res, not just yours? Worthless. The meat shield, able to get aggro and hold it? Doesnt contribute anything. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I do feel that VEAT's have a greater ability to contribute to a team in terms of buffs, but they can't be like Kheldians- Killing everything, out-surviving everyone, and in essence, becoming the team. When I play my Warshade on standard PUG teams, the most I've ever seen anyone contribute is pronouncing themselves Veng Bait and providing entertaining conversation.
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Oh wait, but there's the fluffy ball that causes extra Bosses to spawn, and cysts. THAT is what you are contributing.
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Sorry to say, but I'm asking everyone here for their opinion based on my research questions. Like i said in the OP I don't want this becoming a troll-fest. If you have something to say about Kheldians, then say it. |
Originally Posted by MisterD
You must really play on some crappy PUG teams. Not to underestimate a WS (the 'so' easy to make 2 billion ws, naturally they are VERY common) I'd love to see how one WS makes the entire team worthless. A kin using FS and giving the TEAM capped damage, not just yours? Worthless. A sonic giving everyone almost capped res, not just yours? Worthless. The meat shield, able to get aggro and hold it? Doesnt contribute anything.
Oh wait, but there's the fluffy ball that causes extra Bosses to spawn, and cysts. THAT is what you are contributing. |
This thread was created to gather useful data on where Kheldians needed improvement, not a place for you to yell at someone because you don't agree with their opinion.
If you have something to say, Look at the questions I stated in the OP and at least be helpful.
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I do need to interject quickly to inform you that my Warshade has a current market worth of ~20 billion. You missed a zero. |
Originally Posted by MisterD
You must really play on some crappy PUG teams. Not to underestimate a WS (the 'so' easy to make 2 billion ws, naturally they are VERY common)
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| I'd love to see how one WS makes the entire team worthless. A kin using FS and giving the TEAM capped damage, not just yours? Worthless. |
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| A sonic giving everyone almost capped res, not just yours? Worthless. |
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| The meat shield, able to get aggro and hold it? Doesnt contribute anything. |
Edit: Wanted to elaborate on this...
I believe in Karma. As such, I believe that it is relevant to COH. Warshades are grieved by Peacebringers knocking things out of their buff radius with their silly and 100% unnecessary knockback. Likewise, though, I think that Tanks are grieved by Warshades. When a tank gets to a Warshade spawn, everything is either stunned, dead, or an extracted soul working for his team.
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| Oh wait, but there's the fluffy ball that causes extra Bosses to spawn, and cysts. THAT is what you are contributing. |
Wow, you need to spend 20 billion to make a 'good' warshade?! Awesome!
Did you ever consider that maybe the kin/sonic/tank ALSO spent 20 billion..and WONT die? I guess not.
And if you are first to a spawn, first time, every time, that just means your not helping to finish mobs off. Or maybe..others arent first cause they are using TEAM buffs? You know..contributing?
A khled is the ONLY AT in the game, that can make a mission harder, just by being there. That's right, adding a boss/lt/minion or cyst. Does not matter how much longer it takes said team to kill it..its more time, therefore that much harder.
Seriously, get over your love fest with your khled.
(Oh and clearly you NEVER have actually teamed with a kin..or you would know, even if the kin dies..everyone STILL has capped damage for 30 secs..good argument though!)
And also, apoligies to the OP, but seriously, someone needs to stop inviting a bunch of lvl 1 AE babies so he can show of his 20 billion toon and feel like he is doing it all.
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Nope! But I chose to, because I can.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Wow, you need to spend 20 billion to make a 'good' warshade?! Awesome!
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| Did you ever consider that maybe the kin/sonic/tank ALSO spent 20 billion..and WONT die? I guess not. |
(An edit to say that tanks are better at one thing, which is holding high level enemy aggro. When it comes to even level enemies I can control them effectively, making the role of a tank irrelevant, but during certain content it becomes more difficult to consistently apply the needed mez to *completely* fill that void.)
Surely a Kin/Buff Bot/Whatever you're talking about can contribute a lot to a team... That is, a team who has a use for their contribution. My Warshade solos some of the hardest enemies and enemy groups in the game, on the highest settings. He doesn't need buffs to be god. He's just god all the time.
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| And if you are first to a spawn, first time, every time, that just means your not helping to finish mobs off. Or maybe..others arent first cause they are using TEAM buffs? You know..contributing? |
I'm sure that the dazzled Scrappers can handle at least a few enemies without me... Or did you need help with those too?Quote:
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A khled is the ONLY AT in the game, that can make a mission harder, just by being there. That's right, adding a boss/lt/minion or cyst. Does not matter how much longer it takes said team to kill it..its more time, therefore that much harder. Seriously, get over your love fest with your khled. |
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| And also, apoligies to the OP, but seriously, someone needs to stop inviting a bunch of lvl 1 AE babies so he can show of his 20 billion toon and feel like he is doing it all. |
Again..sorry to the OP..but some things are just too silly not to comment on.
News just in...'20 Billion Warshade solos a cyst!' Singing, cheering is the streets. So, you can solo something, in a pug team (I assume you can also do it alone, but since we are talking a team setting). Do you know how many cysts would be in that pug team, if you werent on it? Go on, guess. It is a number between zero, and zero.
And you also now mention a tank being as 'useful' as your WS on a team. Keyword, useful. It went for your magic WS making they other 7 people 'not contribute anything at all' to you being..useful. Uh huh.
So your WS has NO use for anything? Mmmm what about an enemy that has capped negative energy res? Could you use some -res debuffs to kill it faster? No, of course you can't..because you dont see anyone else as offering anything at all.
Still didn't answer the question about the kin/sonic/tank with 20 billion builds either..
Your ws is THAT good, all the time? Ok then, go do an oro flashback, a cot arc (all those -to hit debuffs and negative resistant mobs) at +4 and 8, with you at level 10. Remember, you said..you are that good ALL the time. (note, I am in no way saying other builds CAN do this..but you clearly can).
Just curious..I assume your build is great, considering the cost and that you can solo an AV. So, tell me..why can't say..a scrapper, have just as expensive build, and do exactly that, but easier..since they dont NEED dead bodies to heal, make pets, or huge mobs to buff their damage and res? Oh wait wait, I know the answer to this! THEY CAN!
Oh and..I will take your bet. Did you forget the claim?
'My Warshade solos Cysts in his sleep'
I want to see you using rest in front of a cyst, and kill it. Come on, must have done it before to make that statement.
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You might want to redirect your cheers towards said Warshades (Plural) soloing high level Arch Villains, 54x8 Malta, Arachnos, and Carnies. Warshades are able to compete with any high end set at max investment- Just like Fiery Aura, the most overpowered Melee secondary at the same investment threshold. Are you gonna rag on FA too?|
Originally Posted by MisterD
News just in...'20 Billion Warshade solos a cyst!' Singing, cheering is the streets. So, you can solo something, in a pug team (I assume you can also do it alone, but since we are talking a team setting).
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| Do you know how many cysts would be in that pug team, if you werent on it? Go on, guess. It is a number between zero, and zero. |
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| And you also now mention a tank being as 'useful' as your WS on a team. Keyword, useful. It went for your magic WS making they other 7 people 'not contribute anything at all' to you being..useful. Uh huh. |
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| So your WS has NO use for anything? Mmmm what about an enemy that has capped negative energy res? |
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| Could you use some -res debuffs to kill it faster? No, of course you can't..because you dont see anyone else as offering anything at all. |
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| Still didn't answer the question about the kin/sonic/tank with 20 billion builds either.. |
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| Your ws is THAT good, all the time? Ok then, go do an oro flashback, a cot arc (all those -to hit debuffs and negative resitanct mobs) at +4 and 8. Remember, you said..you are that good ALL the time. (note, I am in no way saying other builds CAN do this..but you clearly can). |
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| Just curious..I assume your build is great, considering the cost and that you can solo an AV. So, tell me..why can't say..a scrapper, have just as expensive build, and do exactly that, but easier..since they dont NEED dead bodies to heal, make pets, or huge mobs to buff their damage and res? Oh wait wait, I know the answer to this! THEY CAN! |
ST oriented Scrappers though, would be hard pressed to accomplish the other things I've pulled off with my Warshade.
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Oh and..I will take your bet. Did you forget the claim? 'My Warshade solos Cysts in his sleep' I want to see you using rest in front of a cyst, and kill it. Come on, must have done it before to make that statement. |
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So a WS can just waltz through the toughest factions in the game on the hardest settings w/o breaking a sweat? After reading this I fail to see how anyone can be serious about further buffs to WS's, esp regarding something ridiculous like a -500% regen debuff (what melee toon wouldn't want that?).|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You might want to redirect your cheers towards said Warshades (Plural) soloing high level Arch Villains, 54x8 Malta, Arachnos, and Carnies. Warshades are able to compete with any high end set at max investment- Just like Fiery Aura, the most overpowered Melee secondary at the same investment threshold. Are you gonna rag on FA too?
Uh. I hope you don't hurt yourself. What did you just say? For your magic WS making they... I don't even think there's any point in quoting you anymore. I'm hoping you do better this time! Good thing my Warshade stacks resistance debuffs... And Super Strength, in case you were wondering, is widely considered the most powerful melee set in the game. Spoiler: It also does one of the most commonly resisted damage types. So does Dual Blades, if I'm not mistaken, which is the current king of DPS. Warshade damage output is less resisted than both of these examples, which are obviously great ones... So I hardly feel that you can use potential NE resistance as something to negate a Warshades ST potential. I have a FOTG -Res proc in my Damage aura and a 25% -Res from my t4 reactive. That means I'm capable of stacking resistance debuffs. I don't think that team mates are completely useless- For end game content they're obviously necessary. You originally quoted a post that I made to demonstrate the self sufficiency of my Warshade during soloable content set for teams and with teams. What? Sure I did. ......HAHAHA. Your "big challenge" is Circle of Thorns? My Perma Sunless Mire buffs my toHit through the roof. I just... I can't even take you a little bit seriously anymore. I mean. Come on. Circle of Thorns? Sure, Scrappers put out the best ST damage in the game. I never disputed that. I just said that my Warshade can compete with Scrappers- Not touching the highest sets numbers but surpassing many of the lower combinations, and keeping level with the moderate combinations. ST oriented Scrappers though, would be hard pressed to accomplish the other things I've pulled off with my Warshade. Uh.. rest? What the hell is wrong with you? |
Of course I'm no expert on khelds... why do you guys feel these buffs would be justified?
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Don't feed it. It's obviously a troll. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You might want to redirect your cheers towards said Warshades (Plural) soloing high level Arch Villains, 54x8 Malta, Arachnos, and Carnies. Warshades are able to compete with any high end set at max investment- Just like Fiery Aura, the most overpowered Melee secondary at the same investment threshold. Are you gonna rag on FA too?
Uh. I hope you don't hurt yourself. What did you just say? For your magic WS making they... I don't even think there's any point in quoting you anymore. I'm hoping you do better this time! Good thing my Warshade stacks resistance debuffs... And Super Strength, in case you were wondering, is widely considered the most powerful melee set in the game. Spoiler: It also does one of the most commonly resisted damage types. So does Dual Blades, if I'm not mistaken, which is the current king of DPS. Warshade damage output is less resisted than both of these examples, which are obviously great ones... So I hardly feel that you can use potential NE resistance as something to negate a Warshades ST potential. I have a FOTG -Res proc in my Damage aura and a 25% -Res from my t4 reactive. That means I'm capable of stacking resistance debuffs. I don't think that team mates are completely useless- For end game content they're obviously necessary. You originally quoted a post that I made to demonstrate the self sufficiency of my Warshade during soloable content set for teams and with teams. What? Sure I did. ......HAHAHA. Your "big challenge" is Circle of Thorns? My Perma Sunless Mire buffs my toHit through the roof. I just... I can't even take you a little bit seriously anymore. I mean. Come on. Circle of Thorns? Sure, Scrappers put out the best ST damage in the game. I never disputed that. I just said that my Warshade can compete with Scrappers- Not touching the highest sets numbers but surpassing many of the lower combinations, and keeping level with the moderate combinations. ST oriented Scrappers though, would be hard pressed to accomplish the other things I've pulled off with my Warshade. Uh.. rest? What the hell is wrong with you? |
::Sprays MisterD with a can of Troll-B-Gone::
Shoo! Shoo! Get on out of here now! We gave at the office!
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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If you had known Two Headed Boy a bit better, and Dechs you might realize that their replies were JOKES. Obviously a -500% regen debuff is so ridiculous that it's not a serious answer. |
Originally Posted by Person34
So a WS can just waltz through the toughest factions in the game on the hardest settings w/o breaking a sweat? After reading this I fail to see how anyone can be serious about further buffs to WS's, esp regarding something ridiculous like a -500% regen debuff (what melee toon wouldn't want that?).
Of course I'm no expert on khelds... why do you guys feel these buffs would be justified? |
If it was serious, they would have quoted my questions like everyone else
So please, if you want to troll, fine do it elsewhere. I'm only asking for something helpful by providing those questions. I can overlook THB's goofy reply because i know him and how he is (not that that's a bad thing
)____________________________
As for this agrument:
As far as any Moderator will be concerned whoever calls a person a troll is a troll. Then also what might seem like trolling may not be trolling at all. I for one did take THBs comment as banter. I think you have to try and look at things in the best light possible. You may write something I can actually take four different ways without knowing it. No matter how I edit stuff what I say can be taken in the wrong light. Some people may come to the forums looking for an argument I do actually think they're a waste of time. We are all entitled to an opinion.
You can be very unlucky with CoT, you jump in and not only could you instantly have your tohit down to squat but find a Succubus just confused you anyway.
Edit: I'll be amazed if my Warshade came to more than 1.5billion XD
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Wasn't a troll attempt, just an honest question: lots of posts regarding how powerful khelds are here, just as many asking for them to be looked at. Just trying to understand is all.
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
If you had known Two Headed Boy a bit better, and Dechs you might realize that their replies were JOKES. Obviously a -500% regen debuff is so ridiculous that it's not a serious answer.
If it was serious, they would have quoted my questions like everyone else So please, if you want to troll, fine do it elsewhere. I'm only asking for something helpful by providing those questions. I can overlook THB's goofy reply because i know him and how he is (not that that's a bad thing )____________________________ As for this agrument: |
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It's true. I'm a troll. Hairy toes and all. But just to clarify I wasn't accusing THB of trolling.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
As far as any Moderator will be concerned whoever calls a person a troll is a troll. Then also what might seem like trolling may not be trolling at all. I for one did take THBs comment as banter. I think you have to try and look at things in the best light possible. You may write something I can actually take four different ways without knowing it. No matter how I edit stuff what I say can be taken in the wrong light. Some people may come to the forums looking for an argument I do actually think they're a waste of time. We are all entitled to an opinion.
You can be very unlucky with CoT, you jump in and not only could you instantly have your tohit down to squat but find a Succubus just confused you anyway. Edit: I'll be amazed if my Warshade came to more than 1.5billion XD |
Oh, right. Clarifying who you called a troll is still trolling, isn't it?
...Oh, very well.
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Originally Posted by Bionut911
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2. What's wrong with them? Numerically speaking, nothing. Peacebringers are actually quite fine on paper. The buffs worked.
...unless you played a Peacebringer because of the variety in playstyles that comes with mixing up the forms. The buffs may have worked on paper, but they completely disregarded the unique qualities of the forms, giving human form all the best that the other two forms had to offer. Light Form lost its unique animation and all the goodness that went with it in favor of making it "eclipse with a crash and no psionic resistance." Inner Light might give a longer duration buff on par with Mire, but the majority of its buff goes to human form, which now competes with Nova for damage. Nova, on the other hand, was given nothing to compensate for this. Nova still has to drop to human to hit Inner Light, Heals or Hasten. Another point to human. Human is as tough as Dwarf and as damaging as Nova. Only a sentimental fool like me keeps the forms in the 50+ game.
To compete in that game you're better off sticking with human form, where your playstyle is more like that of a brute, madly mashing buttons and keeping your eyes more on your buff icons than what you're actually fighting. It's a playstyle I detest, frankly. That's why I don't play Brutes. Or PVP.
3. Absolutely frickin' nothing, IMHO. My Warshade still sports SO's, but is one of the toughest characters I play. I'm currently planning on IO'ing him up as my new main to replace my PB.
4. Heh. Nothing on the planet is wrong with PB human form. NOTHING. Come to think of it, I don't have any heartburn with Warshade's human form, either.
5. VEAT's are tankmages from level 24 on. They stomped on so many other archetypes' toes it's not funny. Playstyle-wise, VEAT's are the most versatile archetypes in the game. Themewise, they're the most restricting. They're sheer hell to get to 24.
EAT's, in comparison, are an easier out-of-the box archetype to play, and a much, MUCH harder archetype to master. A good VEAT player sees all the credit go to the archetype. A good Kheld driver is a diety to his or her teammates.
'Nut, I had been following this thread, but lost track of it over the last three or five days, so if your suggestion is there I missed it. Have you posted your idea yet?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
I think it was Bridger from the European forums that clarified that calling someone a troll is trolling.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
It's true. I'm a troll. Hairy toes and all. But just to clarify I wasn't accusing THB of trolling.
Oh, right. Clarifying who you called a troll is still trolling, isn't it? ...Oh, very well. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Thanks for the input Joe! I was wondering when I'd see you show yourself in here|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
'Nut, I had been following this thread, but lost track of it over the last three or five days, so if your suggestion is there I missed it. Have you posted your idea yet? |
On terms of my idea, not yet. I had just about all of it wrapped up...then Stone mentioned to me that the dev team from now, and the dev team from then are different...so they might not consider drastic changes (which is in the direction I was going.)
Since I'm off from school for winter break It'll be up in about a day or two. I've got plenty of time on my hands to finish it up
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Ahh I can agree with that. I guess I'm a troll then, non the less...that "troll's" reply disregarded the questions from the OP, and went straight to argument :P lol
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
I think it was Bridger from the European forums that clarified that calling someone a troll is trolling.
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1.) Human form for Peacebringer. No synergy between forms like a Warshade. Also, Human Form provides five times better defense/resilience and can outdo Dwarf without a sweat.|
Originally Posted by Bionut911
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Warshades are another story. I say Triform suits a Warshade best simply because the way they play; fuel oneself with dwarf mire/sunless mire/eclipse, switch to nova and unleash hell. Switch to human and corpse explode. Summon Fuzzy. Stun. Heal. In general; be f***ing amazing. In a pickle? No worries, just Dwarf it out!
2.) My ONLY complaint with my PB is knockback. Get freaking rid of it, someone! PLEASSSEEE!!!
3.) The dire need to be constantly drowning in enemies. Then again, that's just me being nitpicky, but I just hate depending on the number of enemies around me to be "useful". Without 5+ mobs, my resistances/damage plummet.
4.) Generally no Mez protection. And I don't want to hear crap about "Oh, well Dwarf IS your mez protection!" Devs, you OBVIOUSLY gave us the CHOICE to pick between using forms and not using forms... so why in the name of Leeroy should we be penalized for playing all human if we so choose to? VEAT's have the pleasure of having Mez Protection NO MATTER WHAT PATH THEY TAKE!!! If giving human form mez protection renders Dwarf "useless", isn't that a problem with Dwarf, not human? Seems like Dwarf is the weakest link imo
5.) Well... My PB can solo x8 +2 no sweat. My VEAT can solo that and higher with MUCH less dangerous-to-use skills. (Light Form crashes, while Mind Link does not.) My Warshade can also solo the same my PB can and he's a lesser build. But again; Warshades are a very risky playstyle. 5+ Mobs not available for your next eclipse while you try to defeat a boss? You're in for a world of pain. VEAT's can do mostly everything a Kheldian can, but with much less worry and five hundred times more ease. Not to mention their builds are far less complicated. I guess what it really comes down to is this; are you looking for an easy to play epic AT? Or are you looking for a challenging but fairly rewarding AT to play?
Oh, and one more thing for the trolls;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4xKs...eature=related
Couldn't resist.
Templar of Truth Level 50+++ Triform Peacebringer - Server Freedom
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
Gaze into the Abyss... OR ...Walk in the LightTemplar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
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Now don't paint yourself in a corner, because I know you have said and argued different in the past. I also think this is flat out wrong, as there are human powers that are very much not working well.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
4. Heh. Nothing on the planet is wrong with PB human form. NOTHING. Come to think of it, I don't have any heartburn with Warshade's human form, either.
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Sorry. Just had to jump in on that.
Since people are discussing them... I'm not sure why VEATs do not mesh with me so much. When I play them, I just think about how much more I could be doing with another AT type. They step on every other AT's toes too much, probably, but I still feel like I'd be better off just grabbing a Stalker, Scrapper, Blaster, etc. I have the same issues with Defenders and Corruptors usually, though. I tend to be an "all in there, I don't really care how much I'm debuffing, I want to be smashing or tanking" kind of player.
Kheldians are much more in the enemy's face, to my mind, and I like that.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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