End Management: Dark Armour

I have tested a TW/Dark over on the beta just a while ago. Leaving TW aside for now, I have to say running those toggles from Dark and Tough and Weave uses so much end. At one time, my character had trouble even to stand up, let alone fight someone. And I have taken Energy Mastery as well.

Of course, that character is not IO-ed out yet. I am sure the problem will not be that bad once it is IO-ed and proc-ed out.

Still, any suggestions for end management specifically for Dark Armour from any of the Dark Armour out there?


Many thanks

Tough and Weave are hard toggles to run before IO's on pretty much any character, not just Dark Armour. Your inclination that the set gets better with IO's is not wrong, and that's pretty much what you're going to need to do to make the problem go away.

For the time being, I would focus on running your Resistance toggles, including Toughness if you can get away with it, and otherwise rely upon Dark Regeneration to sustain you in tough spots. Definitely trade Cloak of Darkness for Combat Jumping, which costs *much* less endurance and covers your immobilization resistance.

Probably turn off Death Shroud until you can cut it's endurance cost down and put some useful damage procs into it; the piddling damage it does is not really worth it otherwise *especially* considering you're using such an AOE heavy primary.

I might persuade you not to bother with Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom for much of the same reason; Your AOE damage is going to be taking out minions very quickly, and I've never found much use for the toggles unless I could stack them with something else. I certainly *don't* need an entire toggle devoted entirely to stopping minions, and you probably don't either. Oppressive Gloom is the better choice if you *do* go for one of these.

Oh, I forgot to mention: I did not run Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom...

best way to help end issues on dark armor is to get a theft of essence chance of +end and slot that in dark regeneration ASAP (other IOs will help but this one IO will significantly help end issues)

Mostly what's been said. When I'm leveling up Dark Armor I don't run the damage aura or either of the mez auras until my build is mostly or fully IO'ed. I get a Miracle and Numinas proc in Health ASAP. I also fully slot Stamina and add a Perf. Shifter proc on top. Then once I get the ToE proc in Dark Regen, I'm generally okay. Beyond those things I don't usually build specifically for +end or +recovery, though I do tend to end up with at least some of each.

If end usage is still an issue, I look at changing around slotting in my attacks to get more end redux. Single-target attacks are rarely the offenders. It's usually fast activating AoEs that contribute the most to end burn over time. So I'll look at pushing up the end redux in the biggest offenders. That usually does the trick.

Dark Armor is endurance-intensive but I found that it wasn't the armors that were killing my blue bar but Dark Regen. I found myself needing to use it just about every time it was up and I never was able to actually kill anything because 90% of my endurance was spent just keeping me upright.

Dark Regen's highest priority is getting its endurance cut way down. If you're slotting recharge first, you're only going to be sucking wind every time you use it. With just SOs, first slot goes to accuracy (it has to hit to be worth anything) but the next two go to Endurance (+3 if you can manage). The Heal itself, at base, will give you 60+% of your HP back with just two mobs so slotting Heal SOs is often overkill if you're actually around 3+ mobs. Recharge comes after you can afford using it more frequently.

Indirectly, Oppressive Gloom and/or CoF (though I'd go with OG if you're using SOs), will also keep you from using Dark Regen as frequently because minion damage will be mitigated. If OG (which only costs .08 end/sec) saves you from using Dark Regen as often, it will more than pay for itself in endurance (and even the slight HP drain) by allowing you to save that 20 some endurance you would have spent on Dark Regen.

Of course, you could always slot more endurance redux in your attacks (because they're primary offenders to low endurance, too).

Finally...one word: Cardiac. It's a necessary evil for Dark Armor but it does alleviate every endurance problem you'll ever have. I just discovered how potent it is and it'll be hard to wean myself off of it (and my Dark/Dark was fully IO'd with a lot of additional recovery). IO's are the way to go and the Endurance Proc in Dark Regen totally revolutionizes its use, but having the other +Regen procs are going to help a ton as well.

With a set like dark armor, I think the way to go is to simply embrace the endurance madness. Know that you will need nuclear-level mitigation and go with it. I'm talking frankenslot at level 20, start your real IOing at level 30, and plan on cardiac if you don't want an expensive build and ageless if you do. Have a plan in place to unlock and slot these things the day you hit 50.

Before you get there, play conservatively. What is my goal on this mission? Grab a glowie and clear the last room? Great, I'll have enough endurance to do that without stopping if I skip right to it. Dark actually works pretty well for this since you get a stealth power. On teams, use ze blues and, I hate to say it, save your attacks for important targets. Let the blaster finish off the minions that only have a sliver of health left. There's a good blaster, you certainly did blast that fellow.

Basically it's silly to pretend that dark armor is going to play exactly like, for instance, willpower or elec, so don't! You never liked your endurance anyway. You won't miss it when it's gone.

With end management this challenging, how could it be one of the best armour out there......?

I was being a little hyperbolic. To answer your question, though, dark can do things that other melee sets cannot. Amazing heal, good resistance across the board, very good versus psi, damage aura, fear protection, endurance protection, control auras... I'd say it's pretty much the best armor set by most standards.

I never seem to have this bad endurance problem. I do slot IOs starting at level 7, but I'm just putting random junk in until the 20s or 30s at which point I do the boring, reactive armor 4-slotted (res, end, res/end, res/end/rech) in all the armors. Lower level, I try to get two or three res/end or res/end/rech into each armor. I put a bit of end reduction in my attacks, and I run the proc and 1 endmod in stamina. I usually have numina but not miracle in health. And I do fine unless I have a heavy primary (like my axe/dark needed a bit more than this).

I run all my toggles all the time as soon as I get them. And that includes not only the armors, but damage and sometimes adding tough/weave and assault later on.

Here are my suggestions:

First, make sure you slot end reduction in your attacks (and dark regeneration). I usually try to make sure my attacks have the equivalent of 1 SO of accuracy and 1 SO of end reduction before I add anything else. Attacks are still going to be your primary source of end drain. Death Shroud counts as an attack. Also, don't run DS or use AoE attacks unless you are surrounded by enough enemies to make it worthwhile. I like to have 5+ enemies for damage auras and PBAoEs, and 3+ for cones. Some cones are counted as single target attacks, so the AoE damage is just icing on the cake. Use these attacks as often as possible for the best damage to endurance ratio.

Second, run the armors you need. If you are fighting Warriors, you don't need to use all of your armors and doing so will cost you extra endurance. Originally these armors weren't set to stack, and you could only have one on at a time. Sometimes it is beneficial to run the set like it was in the old days.

Third, slot Dark Regeneration well. I highly recommend the theft of essence proc even in a leveling build, as well as accuracy and endurance reduction. In my mind, after you have enough accuracy, you should slot it first for endurance reduction, second for recharge, and last for healing.

Fourth, don't bother with weave, maneuvers, etc. until you have the recovery to run them (an IO build). A case can be made for stacking Dark Embrace with Tough, but an SOed Dark Armor character probably shouldn't be trying to maximize their defenses because it takes so much to run the sets. Instead of grabbing power pools to increase defense, try picking up Oppressive Gloom and running it for minor protection. At very high levels of defense/resistance, OG's protection isn't worth the health cost, but at lower levels it provides decent protection.

Fifth, pick up the energy/body epic. It fits in most characters concepts and the endurance options are great. I personally like the brute's energy mastery pool a ton because I can slot 3 performance shifter procs and the 2 health uniques for very little slot investment. I recommend using hero/villain merits to buy the uniques while leveling, and you can get the miracle unique at 20 just by running the signature story arcs. The scrapper and tanker pools are also nice, though I personally find conserve power's uptime to be problematic for consistent results.

Sixth, pick up the endurance accolades as soon as possible. Not only will they give you a larger pool to burn, they also will increase your total recovery by 10%, which can be significant. A brute that has the accolades and superior conditioning will be looking at nearly 3 end/sec recovery just from 3 slotting stamina and SC (and that is not counting physical perfection).

Seventh, use your blues. If you have multiple inspirations you don't need, convert them to blues. Buy medium and large blues from the market. Email medium/large blues to yourself so you always have some. Burn a merit on a large inspiration or run some AE missions. Etc. There is no excuse for not having enough blues in today's game, as it is easy and profitable to gain access to large numbers of the larger inspirations. Don't neglect reds either. If you can kill something with less attacks, you will use less endurance to defeat them, so reds can act as a form of endurance reduction in that they increase the damage to end ratio. Also, using things like BU will help you defeat foes with less endurance.

Finally, slot rest. I'm not saying waste valuable slots on it that could go to your other powers, but at least put a recharge SO/IO in it so that it is up when you need it.


Those suggestions should help anyone looking to run a dark armor toon and worrying about endurance.

Thank you very much for all your advices. I do want to give Dark Armour a try. Now I know a bit more on how to make it work.

Thanks