Warshade vs. Giant Monster...

I think anyone who shows off doing anything with Lore pets is under utilizing their character. Anyone can do anything with those things, especially when it comes to Warworks and Monsters.. They debuff regen.

I've never seen or read of anyone else doing it. Not that there isn't, perhaps, some UberShade out there lurking in the shadows doing things left and right that no other shade has ever done. One who sits back and laughs as he reads people pronouncing what is "impossible" for Kheldians to do, knowing the whole time that they either have done it or can do it...

Regarding the -regen, from what I have read elsewhere on the forums it is heavily resisted by Giant Monsters and as such the amount of -regen the Warworks pets put out does not have a significant effect over the course of a 5 minute long GM battle. I have been told that Longbow has far better -regen for GMs.

I affirm that even a little bit of -regen helps. It helped me enough to win. And experience is golden.

I know that Cimeroran pets put out the highest DPS against a ST (Warworks are ranked #2) but Cims may not have done as well as the Warworks in this scenario because this GM (Quarry) has, I believe, 40 resistance to Lethal damage.

Also, I did this at -1 x1...I'm thinking now that it might be easier fighting a GM at a higher level than myself because of this...

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Giant_Monsters

In particular notice the part that says...

• If you are a higher level than the Giant Monster, you will do damage to it as if you were its level.
• If you are a lower level than the Giant Monster, you will do damage to it as if it was one level lower than you.
• A Giant Monster does damage to you as if it were your level.

Does anyone (Microcosm I summon you ), care to figure out the amount of damage I (i.e. me plus my pets, call to justice and inspirations) was putting out per second knowing that it took me appx. 4:50 seconds to earn this victory? (I summoned the Warworks just before buffing and jumping in, they disappeared a few seconds after defeating the GM.)

As for the "under utilizing" remark...know that I like leveraging my "weaker than Human only" Triform Warshade to accomplish the "impossible."

I don't know about you fine folks, but I for one am glad that there is at least 1 Giant Monster out there for which a Warshade does not need teammates and/or temporary pets to defeat.

Now go forth and slay some more.

And be sure to post a picture of you sucking out Lusca's many tentacled soul...

P.S. You only get full street cred for that when you don't use teammates, temps and/or Lore Pets.

Later all.

Dear Bionut911 (a.k.a "Speedy"),

I recently composed the following and posted it under Protector's Kheldian Fridays tab. As you have, apparently, not read it I reproduce it here once more for your enlightenment.

"

For the record...

AIB stands for Alien in Black. (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_in_Black)

One pronounces my title correctly when he or she speaks each letter clearly and distinctly.

Contrary to the uninformed opinion of some (names withheld to protect the guilty) , it is not to be pronounced "Abe" or "EyeB" or "AhEEEB" or any number of other random variations.

I refer you to the following song...

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/meninblack/meninblack.htm

That's right. AIB - Alien in Black - Galaxy Defender!

If you wish you may call me Mr. AIB.

I thank you in advance for your understanding and compliance."

Have a nice day.

Sincerely,

AIB

Well when it comes to using Lore pets it doesn't matter what Archetype you're playing, and that's where the general irrelevance comes into play. I'm not saying that your shade's damage didn't contribute, but you should keep in mind that the Warworks boss class can solo AV's on its' own- That's on top of the regen debuff that WW's have and the LT's damage output.

It's like "soloing" a GM on a team of 3, comprising of two teammates who are able to solo AV's on their own and having at least one of the teammates bringing debuffs to the table. When it comes to soloing tough enemies, tacking on "with lore pets" on the end sort of negates the whole concept.

In terms of human vs. Tri Form, what it really comes down to is nothing but math. I have another respec to do that will help out my attack chain a little more- I'm not posting the build on the forums, but the attack chain will comprise three attacks, hitting for (~) 142, 209, 142, 95 (repeat) DPA in a fluent attack chain- That's with, of course, purple/PVP procs and Reactive Radial Flawless and Orbiting Death adding 38 DPS/-res from FOTG, pluss buffs from Sunless Mire and red inspirations to reach the damage cap; (not accounted for w/ these numbers) No need for purples with softcapped defense and no need for blues with the recovery I've allocated.

I'm not sure what your ST attack chain in Dwarf is but the three attacks available are doing, compared to the human form chain, 113 vs. 142, 128 vs. 209, and 80 vs. 95 without a damage aura ticking and not counting the long animations that would potentially be needed to shift down to human for stygian circle to heal (no defense) and recover endurance.

Quarry along with other DE Monsters are available in certain A.E. missions as Giant Monsters.

His level range is 38-54. Against him at -1 dif he has 69195 hp. Meaning he was regenerating 345.975 hitpoints per second. (5% hp every 10 seconds)

At +4 dif he has 76695 hp.

Thanks for the calc it is the same thing I got.

So...Warworks put out 209 dps? Meaning me and my fluffies were putting out appx. 375 DPS for 4 minutes and 50 seconds.

I know right. I've never heard of nor seen anyone do it before but I suppose there will always be detractors.

Reminds me of when I first posted soloing AVs a few months ago with my WS then my PB.

Highlights that followed...

PB soloing AV. No Lore Pets or temps. (mostly in Dwarf - before the recent changes)

WS soloing AV. (with no incarnate powers or temps of any kind...like it had to be done back in the day.)

WS soloing a Level 54 AV with no lore pets or temps.

Come to think of it, I reckon I should put those on my sig. Along with this GM killage...even though I used lore pets...

I suppose that when someone else accomplishes or surpasses that which is placed upon my "resume" I'll remove it and return to obscurity....hmmm...

So you think ANY AT can put out 584 DPS for 4 minutes and 50 seconds using Lore pets...

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong.

Later everyone.

He said any AT can defeat a GM with Lore Pets. I'm not here to criticize/detract or whatnot, but an Emp/something defender did it sometime ago (solo a GM), I don't remember which pets were tho. So you don't need to have a high dps AT or power set combo to do it. Just like someone posted here about his SD/SS Tanker, an AT that doesn't solo GMs without them (a safe assumption to make I guess, since even the craziest 10 billion scrapper AV soloing builds don't post that they soloed GMs - the usual GM soloers without lore pets are /rad and /cold trollers, and sonic/traps-sonic/rad defs or corrs, besides /traps MMs).

I've seen an Emp/Rad solo a level 50 AV without Lore Pets. (In fact I paid Auroxis to do so.)

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...35#post3759435

I've never seen an emp/anything defender solo a GM (with or without Lore Pets).

Consider this...

The level 50 AV Auroxis soloed had 28,271.70 hp

(http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain).

Since AVs regen 5% of their HP every 15 seconds it means that AV was regenerating 94.239 hp per second. (Pretty much any AT can overcome this.)

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Health_Regeneration

However, the GM I fought had 69,195 hp

Since GMs regen 5% of HP every 10 seconds it means that the GM I killed was regenerating 345.975 hp per second.

That is a huge difference.

Remember with T4 offensive Lore Pets you have 5 minutes to beat the GM down. Which means that even with the strongest Lore Pets you still have to contribute far more than appx 100 DPS for that 5 minutes to win.

Taking out the 209 DPS from my Warworks Lore Pets it would seem that I was pumping out 375 DPS for that appx 4 minutes and 50 seconds of this fight.

They are as harmful or potentially more harmful (i.e. Quarry can spawn as a lev 38-54 in A.E. on +4 difficulty he has 76,695 HP (I'll let you do the math for his regen rate) than when in the wild.

However, you can design the map (i.e. enemy type, patrols, ambushes etc. to help you out...)I believe that this thread will answer all of your questions.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=276534&page=3

Later everyone.

http://coh103.gtm.cityofheroes.com/s...postcount=1844

(link is weird because I found it on google, and with my forum configurations it won't be on page 93 of that gigantic thread)

So there you go and even without doing maths, I can't doubt Auroxis - in the very thread you linked to he said he took 23 minutes to kill Chimera with Interface/Reactive/whatever on his emp and later, FIFTY seconds using lore pets.

Wow. You're really grasping at straws here. I suppose I'll have to be more direct.

Responding to your comments in order...

1. When and if you ever find this thread please be sure to provide a link. Maybe it exists then again maybe you are mixing it up with something else. Until you can supply the link, from an evidentiary standpoint, the comment is worthless.

2. I have seen Auroxis solo a pylon with Lore Pets and I have seen him solo an AV without them. I have never seen him solo a Giant Monster with or without Lore Pets. A thread or a message tab of him (or another Emp/? Defender) demonstrating the killing of a GM would be most appropriate.

3. I do do math. And this is what I know. If he killed a level 50 Chimera in 50 seconds with Lore Pets it means...

28,271.70 (Lev 50 AV HP) divided by 50 seconds (time it took to kill the AV) = 565.434 (Damage per second)

He is saying he (along with his, presumably, Warworks pets did 565.434 damage per second(DPS)...now...this does not take into account ANY regeneration of the AV's hit points...with regeneration it would be an additional 4,240.755 hps (5% every 15 seconds - 3 regen pulses (at 15, 30 and 45 seconds) in other words the total DPS per second...650.2491

Now, T4 Warworks put out 209 DPS. So, that means, if Auroxis beat the lev 50 AV (Chimera) in 50 seconds.

He was putting out somewhere between 356.434 to 441.2491 Damage Per Second BY HIMSELF for 50 seconds. (If he could sustain this level of damage he could solo a Giant Monster without Lore Pets). Let that sink in for awhile.



Now...back to the point of this thread.

The title is "Warshade vs. Giant Monster."

Let that sink in for a moment.

Here is the fact.

No other Warshade (Tri, Bi, or Human only) has ever posted the soloing of a Giant Monster with or without Lore Pets.

As I have said before, there may be some Ubershade lurking in the shadows who defeats Giant Monsters routinely but hasn't the time or the inclination to post the accomplishment on the boards.

If another Warshade ever comes along and does what I have done or something greater than what I have done, at that point, I will remove my accomplishment from my "Highlights." Because, at that point, my signature will no longer be unique.

Until that day, I humbly submit that the evidence suggests, that I stand in a league of my own.

By the way...The view must be pretty good from the cheap seats.

This seems to be an appropriate time for me to say "re: pissing contest." Taking a pragmatic approach as you've done with the rest of your post, it's pretty clear-cut-simple to assess the optimal attack chain for a Warshade. I feel like the entire point of this thread was to prove that your Shade's dwarf form is somehow magically putting out superior DPS compared to an optimized human form attack chain.

You decided to start several threads after I started one to highlight an accomplishment I was just personally pretty proud of, which was soloing a level 53 AV. I am content with that- I've told you this already but I haven't even tried at 54. I've managed to put a pretty nice dent in Scrappy, just for fun, without using any pets but the environment wasn't ideal.

This brings me back to my original point, though- I sort of feel like you're going out of your way to prove some 'superiority' which strikes me as kind of obsessive.

I post one thread for the sake of highlighting a personal accomplishment, so you proceed to post three more, for what purpose? To show that you can solo a GM with Lore pets, and that you had the patience to pound a level 54 AV down in Dwarf form? I'm not saying that your Warshade isn't awesome, you already know I think he is. I play with you once a week, used to play with you at least 3 times a week, and you're probably one of my best friends in COH.

None of this change the fact that an optimized human form build puts out more single target damage than tri form, though. Look at the numbers in mids if you don't believe me... I'd be glad to email you my current build again. It's just a silly thing to try to subtly argue as you seem to be doing with these threads... Just like I would never claim that my Human Form build has more AoE potential than your shade does. The numbers don't lie.

In order...

1. I intentionally ignored the insolence.

2. We have already discussed the optimal chain at length. I refer you to the discussion found here...

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=273855

3. I assure you that it is not. While I cannot tell you how you should feel I can tell you what I have said and what I have implied. Eisegesis would lead you to your conclusion. Exegesis would not.

4. You asked me about the Level 53 AV soloage before you did it. As I was busy preparing for the GRE during that period you beat me to the punch. After congratulating on the accomplishment I did it as well for the following reasons...1. To see if I could do it. 2. To prove to the community that it is something that a TriForm Warshade can accomplish as well.

(Remember, you were once a TriForm Warshade. And now you have apostatized. You shall never convince me to become your disciple. Heretic )

5. I still think you should give it a shot. You will be the only Human only Warshade to post about it if you do it and post it.

6. Sadly Scrappy puts us at Level 30 in A.E. as such we cannot use our incarnate abilities as well as some key preincarnate ones...

7. Nope, I just read people saying "it can't be done" or they seriously "doubt it can be done" I try to do it and if I can do it I post it and then I'm prepared to move on.

Some folks say, "Wow. Great job! Congratulations."

Other folks, in the spirit of friendly competition say, "Nice work. But can you do this?"

Still others say, "Great job. Do it again and record it (or take pictures of it) as proof to all and then I'll PAY YOU (inf) for what you have done."

It has nothing to do with "proving superiority. Mostly, it has to do with encouraging others, letting them know that certain things CAN be done and that, with enough time and effort invested (if they have it to spend) along with a bit of practice they too can go and do likewise. Perhaps, they will even be able to accomplish greater things than these...
(Partly, I just enjoy the challenge of doing these things.) Hmm...notice that these points mirror what I related under point 4.

8. The running joke, in case it has been overlooked is that I post my accomplishments for "street cred." I've already related the reasons behind my posting of these things.

9. Thanks. Yes, real life and Heroes of Might and Magic V are taking me away from COH lately. You're one of my best COH friends too...even though you have fallen away from the Triform fold.

10. Wow. Umm, this is and has always been your baby. It's not my thing. I've never affirmed TriForm ST damage over Human only...though even with a tri build I reckon you could put together the highest DPS human attack chain as well...I wondered the following openly in the tab I previously referenced...perhaps this is whence your confusion stems...

Is the optimal human attack chain with ONLY fully saturated Sunless Mire still dishing out more damage than Dwarf ST attack chain with fully saturated Sunless Mire and fully saturated Dwarf Mire. You see, in large groups I can stay at 300% damage (damage cap) without inspirs. Whereas a human form typically stays at around 150%ish without inspirs.

to which Microcosm replied...

Absolute best builds I can muster for both, the human (actually still a triform, only with forms for set bonuses) with only sunless mire saturated still does better than the dwarf with both mires saturated, though it's not huge, especially because the Dwarf will see approx twice as many chances for the -res proc. That's not counting the extra time it takes to pop down to human and back to dwarf every ~30 seconds for mire, however.

11. I prefer overt argument. At anyrate, this is not a "pissing contest."

12. No, they certainly do not.

See you around Septi.

Since when did that happen? Being a huge proponent of "human only" Khelds back in the day before it was popular, I was always careful to say that a human-only Kheld couldn't possibly put out the exact same DPS as a tri-former... Did something change in the past year during my absence?


Also, I remember when I used to post accomplishments in these forums... There will always be people out there that try to put you down. Just keep at it, and know that there is nothing more satisfying than the accomplishment of pulling off a personal goal, no matter if it means nothing to anyone else.

Nice job.

"Alien"

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Human form has the best chain for single target damage. Being "human-only" can sometimes make building to use that chain somewhat easier (as well as making you more survivable through defense powers), though it is also possible to do so with both bi-form and tri-form builds. The difference between a bi-form and a pure human build using that chain is negligible as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Yeah, he's full of it...

Information that is...

Appreciate the encouragement.

Later all.