KM is overpowered because concentrated strike does ridiculous damage in PVP. Also with the fire epic & focused burst you can essentially create a tankmage for PVP.
I would advise against making a brute for PVP because fury is hit hard by DR. A Scrapper or Tank would be better.
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Good to know. I won't feel bad about it since I already have KMs 'cause I lurves them. (Even FURY is hit by DR, what the heck?! Does DR hit everything but Damage?!)|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
KM is overpowered because concentrated strike does ridiculous damage in PVP. Also with the fire epic & focused burst you can essentially create a tankmage for PVP.
I would advise against making a brute for PVP because fury is hit hard by DR. A Scrapper or Tank would be better. |
I already have a brute and I'm not big on 'rolling multiple simultaneous versions of the same toon' when I have builds. Will the suck of brute fury outweigh the OP of KM enough to make it unpleasant, or will they roughly even out?
Also, on a completely OT note, gosh DANG that was an awesome RP event on Saturday. Am so glad I went. =) Thanks for organizing it.
Fury is simply damage bonus, which is DR'd. There are few things not DR'd like Max HP, Healing, and Damage. Note that even with those three, any enhancement slotting is DR'd.
Like Xan said, Concentrated Strike is quite OP. You can very easily hit for as much damage as an Assassin's Strike, but with none of the drawbacks.
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NP on the RP event. Though the people responsible for the event were @Johnny Turbo & @Freak Accident. All I did was put a league together and help co-ordinate a bit.|
Originally Posted by Lady Sunflash
Good to know. I won't feel bad about it since I already have KMs 'cause I lurves them. (Even FURY is hit by DR, what the heck?! Does DR hit everything but Damage?!)
I already have a brute and I'm not big on 'rolling multiple simultaneous versions of the same toon' when I have builds. Will the suck of brute fury outweigh the OP of KM enough to make it unpleasant, or will they roughly even out? Also, on a completely OT note, gosh DANG that was an awesome RP event on Saturday. Am so glad I went. =) Thanks for organizing it. |
As for brutes...I really don't like them in PVP. Tanks do more damage and have better resists/defense. Scrappers are better all around due to higher damage and access to better epics. I'd recommend going with one of them.
Alright, thanks for all the info.
If you are set on KM then make sure it is a scrapper. People only rant and rave about KM being OP because on scrappers Concentrated Strike hits for like 600+ and ONLY on a scrapper does it hit hard. Tanks and Brutes do not do the same as a KM scrapper.
So make sure it's a scrapper if you are set on KM. A KM tank will just be a waste imo, also check the base pvp numbers on the info tab in-game to clarify.
Morti.
"You wrote that the world doesn't need a saviour, but everyday I hear people cry for one"
Mortilance - Elec/WP Stalker
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Yeah, KM Scrapper is definitely the way to go especially if you already have one. I've seen KM Tanks in zone, they do really bad damage, possibly one of the lowest damage Tank sets in PvP.|
Originally Posted by Mortilance
If you are set on KM then make sure it is a scrapper. People only rant and rave about KM being OP because on scrappers Concentrated Strike hits for like 600+ and ONLY on a scrapper does it hit hard. Tanks and Brutes do not do the same as a KM scrapper.
So make sure it's a scrapper if you are set on KM. A KM tank will just be a waste imo, also check the base pvp numbers on the info tab in-game to clarify. Morti. |
Also, OP, if you're not sure about a build and this is your first PvP toon in CoH, I would consider having a PvPer make a build for you so you have some direction, if you can find someone to do it.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Why not a KM/, Stalker?
Those that were brand-new to the old-zone had no idea of the slaughter that awaited them. Those that dwelled within it awaited them. Those who lived within it achieved victories upon losses. Those that were tougher than most taunted for the weak. Those who attacked from a distance were witted to keep afar. Those who desired to win enhanced the necessary. Teamed diversity earned respect. Those that cried ... begged for change (I-13).
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Because my KM/EA scrapper does similar damage out of cloak with power siphon and Concentrated strike than my stalkers do out of hide with AS with no drawbacks. IDK about OP per se, its just a function of the awesomeness of the set. |
Originally Posted by _Goon_
Why not a KM/, Stalker?
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Brutes and Tanks have the same base damage, but their damage isn't the same. With the new fury changes, a brute can keep 75 fury by just spamming stone prison/fossilize/nemesis staff, and if NPCs are on attacking them (4 blue conning minions are a joke), it'll settle a little above 80.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
NP on the RP event. Though the people responsible for the event were @Johnny Turbo & @Freak Accident. All I did was put a league together and help co-ordinate a bit.
As for brutes...I really don't like them in PVP. Tanks do more damage and have better resists/defense. Scrappers are better all around due to higher damage and access to better epics. I'd recommend going with one of them. |
KoB on a tank with rage+ 5 heca slotting = 376 damage
KoB on brute, 75% fury +rage + 5 heca slotting = 480 damage
If we include the 2 averages for heca proc/unbreak proc since that's popular
Tank KoB = 446
Brute KoB =550
Also remember that fossilize does nearly the same damage as KoB, so in 2 hits
Tank KoB/Fossilize = 893 damage
Brute KoB/Fossilize = 1100 damage
That's proportional to every attack they throw, so brutes do roughly 20% more damage. For every 5 brute attacks, it's 6 tank attacks, important if they're kiting.
As for survivability, Tanks are better solo, nobody can argue against a bag of 3500 hp, but brutes are much better with buffs -or- t9s. With 2 specific secondaries brutes are more survivable than tanks, but only for 6-7 minutes at the most. Still expect more than 50% uptime of superior tank survivability.
Tanks don't get Overload with 0.3 elusivity on it, making it the most powerful god mode for defense, and Tank Unstoppable is 71% res where as Brute Unstoppable is 83% res, that means in unstoppable, brutes are 60% more survivable than tanks.
That doesn't factor max HP, but the Brute will sit at 3100 while the tank will sit at cap. The closer you are to the resistence cap the less benefit max HP is. The % increase from Brute Hp to Tank Hp is roughly 13% more, meaning the tank gets 13% of the remaining res from 100%.
100-71 = 29
13% of 29 = 3.77
=75% res
The Brute is still 47% more survivable.
Out of god modes, tanks have more survivability. Brutes have less of a DR curve on resistence, meaning they do have better resistence, but the max HP plays a bigger role when only halfway to 100% res, so tanks come out on top out of god modes.
Should also be mentioned that both god modes are roughly 6 minutes long with burnout. Being more survivable than any tank for 6 minutes is very fun.
Combine Demonic with either and you're either at 88% res/35% defense in Unstoppable, or 60+ defense/55% res with 0.3 elusivity in Overload. Tanks will never see those nigh unstoppable moments. Then go ahead and laugh at getting hit by CS for under 100 damage, I always do.
tl;dr
-Tanks can't possibly do more damage than brutes, as they have the same base damage. (The -20 res from t1 attack is nothing compared to fury, both generated by hitting them, factor one = factor both)
-The damage numbers didn't factor resistence, you will never hit over 1k with 2 hits, you aren't a scrapper
-Tanks can survive more, except in unique situations. Brutes can, solo, becomes the hardest thing to kill if built right, but only for a limited time.
-Not all Brutes suck, specific combos can have better results than tanks
In conclusion, for KM, I would recommend a scrapper as well.
Why are you talking about Super Strength?
KM on a scrapper is mad OP.
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Almost as OP as a blaster who can hit me from 80 feet away !!!
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Originally Posted by Syndace
KM on a scrapper is mad OP.
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least there arent any regen blasters with barrier...while i do still agree blasters aren't so "glass" cannon like at all having more hp than and other squishy and killing the hell out of almost anything from range
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Originally Posted by DaveMebs
Almost as OP as a blaster who can hit me from 80 feet away !!!
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But not for 700 damage in one attack. Range is still > tho |
Originally Posted by DaveMebs
Almost as OP as a blaster who can hit me from 80 feet away !!!
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Poking my head into PvP in this game; not sure if that's a good idea, given what I hear and see, but I am.
What's up with Kinetic Melee? I happen to be a big fan of the Powerset - have a Brute Tank and a Scrapper Damage with it - and have heard it called out a few times as an 'easy' win. Can someone elaborate on why? I'm sure part of it is its flexibility at range.
(Is it worth it to try to make a PvP build with a Brute KM? I understand that its damage is low for Brutes compared to Scrappers until high Fury, and I can't guarantee high Fury in a PvP situation, I'm guessing... I used it on a Brute solely for the -dmg to add to my survivability.)