There is no reward for pvping in this game (pvp ios don't really count with a drop rate worse than purples). There is no objective. (death match isn't reallyan objective). These are 2 glaring flaws in the pvp system. If the devs wanted to improve pvp and increase interest they would have to do something about these 2 things at the very least.
Oh, there are more than just 2 glaring flaws.
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Actually, the market says what the playerbase thinks they are worth. If no one was willing to purchase the IOs for these prices, they wouldnt sell at these prices.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The silence from the devs is deafening on PvP however the market shows what they really think. I don't PvP now and haven't in a long time because it is a pointless exercise without some of the tools we need to make the game interesting. Having to spend 5 or 6 billion to get PvP IO's? No thanks.
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Now if you are going to say that the devs are fine with them selling at these prices, the only dev I know that ever spoke on the subject thinks that those prices are ridiculous.
If you are saying that if the devs are okay with it because they haven't increased the drop rates at all, well, how do you know? Have you tested that? Personally I think they could increase the drop rate by a decent margin without it affecting the prices at the auction house. I also cant prove that you are not wrong either.
All that said, afaik, you don't need pvp io's to pvp.
Sometimes you do need PvP IOs to compete effectively, but there are many cases where you do not. Many PvP IO prices are as high as they are because the devs, in all their wisdom, gave them desirable bonuses in PvE.
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Some carrots people like(mission complete bonus, accolades, pvp ios), some carrots people run away from(extra astral for open leagues). The devs apparently can't tell which is which.
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Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Sometimes you do need PvP IOs to compete effectively, but there are many cases where you do not. Many PvP IO prices are as high as they are because the devs, in all their wisdom, gave them desirable bonuses in PvE.
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To true. I was just saying the system as a whole (not gameplay specific mechanics and power balance), these are 2 huge missing things.
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Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Oh, there are more than just 2 glaring flaws.
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Supply and demand. There is very little supply and very high demand. Simple economics. The devs made production of these IOs painfully for anyone not arena farming them. Even then, they still drop (last i remember seeing numbers posted) about 5ish times in 24 hours of farming 1 target. When they first came out ppl afk farmed them overnight and got a full inventory (read 20 or more) in a 8 hours span. Even then the drop rate was horrid for normal play. Dont YOU think something is off with that? Did someone claim somewhere that pvp IOs are suppose to be Elite Hardcore Uber Power Gamer players only? Not that I remember, though I could be totally off there.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Actually, the market says what the playerbase thinks they are worth. If no one was willing to purchase the IOs for these prices, they wouldnt sell at these prices.
Now if you are going to say that the devs are fine with them selling at these prices, the only dev I know that ever spoke on the subject thinks that those prices are ridiculous. If you are saying that if the devs are okay with it because they haven't increased the drop rates at all, well, how do you know? Have you tested that? Personally I think they could increase the drop rate by a decent margin without it affecting the prices at the auction house. I also cant prove that you are not wrong either. All that said, afaik, you don't need pvp io's to pvp. |
Castle stated a while before he left that the reason the PvP IO drop rate was low was because they were too farmable. Unfortunately the reason they are farmed in the first place is because they're rare, so the circle continues...
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
They need to stop worrying about things being exploited. People will always find ways to exploit stuff. They need to worry about how their exploit fixes are harming non-exploit using players' experience, and adjust their fixes accordingly.
I think a fairly easy fix to the inflation of both PvP IOs and Purples is to make them easier to get, and a simple way to do that would be to increase their drop rates. They would probably have to test them a bit at different rates to see what is too much of a buff, but the rates do need a fairly substantial buff imo.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Tell me how many times can this story be told? After all of these years it should all sound so old, but it somehow rings true in the back of my mind.
As i search for a dream that words can no longer define. Yeah...pvp needs some fixing. May or may not get it. As long as they don't listen to the pve population on how to fix it I'll sleep well at night.
Kill the enemy. Take their souls. Drink their blood.
This has been mentioned before and time and time again. I agree every single time and glad the OP brought it up again. Zwillinger I would love to hear your insight on this if you are around. 32 hero/villain merits for one pvp IO is ridiculous.
I've been saying for years that we should have the ability to trade in 400 reputation for rewards, reset back to zero, and have a timer set on reward claim to prevent "farming". Rewards could be PvP/purple recipies, cool temp powers, reward/hero/villain/astral/emp merits, rare salvage, or even pvp costumes. I'm sure the pvp zones would be more populated if there was more of an incentive. I personally zone pvp just for the thrill of a good chase and defeat, but I know it would be even more fun if I could use all the accumulated reputation I have across all characters. People can spend a few hours doing trials or whatever and get a bunch of rewards where as we get nothing for a few hours of pvp. I haven't had a pvp IO drop in 5 months after hundreds of defeats. People wouldn't have to farm these IO's if they weren't so hard to get normally...
I know the system keeps track of who has defeated who because of the defeat list under the personal info menu. Something could be done with this too. Why not keep track of a kill/death ratio per zone sitting in let's say Recluse's Victory? These could be displayed personally or publicly to enhance the pvp purpose. A lot of pvp type people, myself included, like stats. They are fairly meaningless but fun!
What are arena ratings for? Are there rewards for having a good arena rating? Do you think more people would be inclined to arena pvp if there were rewards there too?
Pvp does not need to be "fixed" but rather enhanced. It doesn't even really "need" anything. The pvp population just wants some love. Devs you did a great job with incarnates and the new trials. Surely you can squeeze in a few pvp changes to tide us over for another year. 
If you invest in us we will keep investing in you.
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I think the reason people have been asking for just simple fixes is because we have lost confidence that the Devs will ever do any additions to PvP. The PvP community has on many occassions laid out what the Devs could do to vastly improve PvP, and attract new people to PvP for a long time, even before i13. It's mostly been met with just being completely ignored.|
Originally Posted by Syndace
This has been mentioned before and time and time again. I agree every single time and glad the OP brought it up again. Zwillinger I would love to hear your insight on this if you are around. 32 hero/villain merits for one pvp IO is ridiculous.
I've been saying for years that we should have the ability to trade in 400 reputation for rewards, reset back to zero, and have a timer set on reward claim to prevent "farming". Rewards could be PvP/purple recipies, cool temp powers, reward/hero/villain/astral/emp merits, rare salvage, or even pvp costumes. I'm sure the pvp zones would be more populated if there was more of an incentive. I personally zone pvp just for the thrill of a good chase and defeat, but I know it would be even more fun if I could use all the accumulated reputation I have across all characters. People can spend a few hours doing trials or whatever and get a bunch of rewards where as we get nothing for a few hours of pvp. I haven't had a pvp IO drop in 5 months after hundreds of defeats. People wouldn't have to farm these IO's if they weren't so hard to get normally... I know the system keeps track of who has defeated who because of the defeat list under the personal info menu. Something could be done with this too. Why not keep track of a kill/death ratio per zone sitting in let's say Recluse's Victory? These could be displayed personally or publicly to enhance the pvp purpose. A lot of pvp type people, myself included, like stats. They are fairly meaningless but fun! What are arena ratings for? Are there rewards for having a good arena rating? Do you think more people would be inclined to arena pvp if there were rewards there too? Pvp does not need to be "fixed" but rather enhanced. It doesn't even really "need" anything. The pvp population just wants some love. Devs you did a great job with incarnates and the new trials. Surely you can squeeze in a few pvp changes to tide us over for another year. If you invest in us we will keep investing in you. |
I completely support expanding on incentives to PvP, but I just don't see it happening. I will happily eat my words if it ever does, but I sort of doubt it will. I don't doubt that we will see some amount of attention paid to fixing things that we have asked for to be fixed for a long time because of F2P and CoH: Freedom, but I think it would be a huge leap for them to invest any time into adding things to PvP in this game.
To repeat myself; I completely agree that the best route to make PvP in this game better and more popular is to expand it's scope of incentives and it's scope of things to do in PvP besides kill people.
I really think this game had the potential, and still does technically, to be a really fun and competitive game in terms of PvP, but the devs have shown very, very little interest in pursuing this. It's sad, because I truly believe this game could be a lot more if the dev team of this game wasn't so lackluster.
I think if the devs just turned over PvP to the players, allowed them to make their own PvP maps with their own rules in a similar style to AE, it would improve the potential of PvP for this game greatly and they wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. The playerbase has shown over and over that they know how PvP in this game works far better than the devs do, and have a pretty clear vision on how to improve it. I think some of this translates over to PvE too, but that's not what this thread is about. I think of all things, that would be the least likely change, but I think it would be the most beneficial.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
I have been beating the let players use an AE style of editor for PvP for a LOOOONG time. When AE came out I thought we could use it for PvP and I was very disappointed to find we couldn't.
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Um, I think you are seeing this exactly the wrong way...|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Why bother with PvP if this is the case? To encourage something you make it common, to discourage it you tax it. The devs have decided to try to teach new players coming into the game that PvP is not encouraged and it is flat out disliked.
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"PvP Recipes" are not called that because you need them to PvP, but because you can (almost exclusively) get them in PvP. They are supposed to be an incentive to do PvP, so the more the cost, the better for PvP, for the more rewarding PvP is. They are ridiculously expensive because they rock your PvE build just as much, so everybody wants them, but few people PvP for them.
That most people STILL don't touch PvP despite the treasures that it can bring is another sad story. But if the PvP recipes would be cheap, they'd fail their purpose completely.
Quite the self-contradictory post you have going for you there. You clearly are not experienced with the drop rate of PvP IOs.
I don't see what the drop rate has to do with my statement.
PvP recipes were introduced in I14 as something that only drops when defeating players to give PvP a reward. Only later was the option to buy them from the newly made merits added.
Whatever the drop rate, they were not introduced as (and are not) something you have to buy from merits in order to PvP properly, as the original posts suggests.
Sure, they did not make PvP a worthwhile farming ground, nor made it suck less, but that was not the topic.
Has anyone looked at what some common PvP recipes can be purchased for using Hero/Villain Merits?
32 merits for some of the most wanted ones. Yes, 32. A LoTG is 2. Numina + is 2. Almost all of the top tier IO's are 2 and the PvP ones are 16 times higher?
Why bother with PvP if this is the case? To encourage something you make it common, to discourage it you tax it. The devs have decided to try to teach new players coming into the game that PvP is not encouraged and it is flat out disliked.
The silence from the devs is deafening on PvP however the market shows what they really think. I don't PvP now and haven't in a long time because it is a pointless exercise without some of the tools we need to make the game interesting. Having to spend 5 or 6 billion to get PvP IO's? No thanks.
I considered trying to form some leagues with ladders with Novice to Open - but after looking at what the actual game itself is saying about PvP - I am going to spend my time more productively. I just wanted to write to show that players are seeing what you are doing devs and if you don't want PvP you are doing a fine job discouraging it.