Every costume piece for sale in the store
By
Coyote_Seven,
Posted on: 2011-10-16 17:54 in Suggestions and Ideas
Patience, Grasshopper.
I think the general consensus on this is (because so far there's been no official word) that the devs will have everything or nearly everything available for purchase eventually. But they're holding some stuff -- Rulaaru weapons, Roman armor, etc. -- back so that they can release these things over time.
This way, eight weeks from now, they don't have to have some brand-new piece of content ready to go. They can be working on something more complicated -- a new powerset, say -- and still be able to point to the market that week and say, "hey, check out the cool new stuff you can buy now!"
No reason they should blow their entire load less than a month into the whole "Paragon Market" thing.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
I agree with this completely. Let us purchase all unlockable costume pieces and weapons and price them accordingly. Then turn around and add all purchasable weapons and gear to some kind of in-game, per-character unlock so that those who don't want to pay can weight the value of their time vs. the value of their money.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Said it pretty plainly in the other thread, so I'll say it here too.
/signed. I get my fun from other ways other than grinding to get a characters look right.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I asked about the Invention Salvage Costume pieces on an uStream chat once, and the response was that they can be picked up cheaply from Wentworths.
Thing is, I like to be able to look at them and use them in the character creation process rather than add them on, especially in the case of wings.
/unsigned.
Please leave all achievement based unlocks as unlocks. I have no quarrel with them being previewed in the store. I have no quarrel with account-based unlocks or other means to have them available for alts at level 1.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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On a recent alt, I was able to purchase Insect Wings and wear them 5 min. out of the tutorial. Cost less than 5K inf. I believe this was the basis for adding tailors to the newbie zones.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
I asked about the Invention Salvage Costume pieces on an uStream chat once, and the response was that they can be picked up cheaply from Wentworths.
Thing is, I like to be able to look at them and use them in the character creation process rather than add them on, especially in the case of wings. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
People who desperately want the parts but hate whatever content unlocks them have an alternate unlock route, with the bonus of getting the parts on every character.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I agree with this completely. Let us purchase all unlockable costume pieces and weapons and price them accordingly. Then turn around and add all purchasable weapons and gear to some kind of in-game, per-character unlock so that those who don't want to pay can weight the value of their time vs. the value of their money.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Said it pretty plainly in the other thread, so I'll say it here too.
/signed. I get my fun from other ways other than grinding to get a characters look right. |
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It's no different from wanting costume code powers in the store, really 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Very much /signed.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I agree with this completely. Let us purchase all unlockable costume pieces and weapons and price them accordingly. Then turn around and add all purchasable weapons and gear to some kind of in-game, per-character unlock so that those who don't want to pay can weight the value of their time vs. the value of their money.
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Also, like I said in the other thread, all costume pieces that as of right are only purchasable should also be made unlockable in the game.
Or how about this? After making every single bit of bonus clothing available both in the market as well as unlockable, from then on it could be that any new such items could be... I don't know, let's say it's put on the market first. And then maybe six months later it's made unlockable via some high end content or such. How's that idea?
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1) You need the resources and Inf to craft the piece in the first place. Yeah, yeah, just send everything via email. The point is that it's still a hoop to jump through.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
On a recent alt, I was able to purchase Insect Wings and wear them 5 min. out of the tutorial. Cost less than 5K inf. I believe this was the basis for adding tailors to the newbie zones.
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2) You have to craft the pieces before you can wear them, and there's nowhere to do so in the starting zones. It's not a long walk to the Steel Canyon university or the Port Oakes abandoned lab, but both paths are filled with enemies that can easily kill a level 1, in Port Oakes moreso than Steel. And in Praetoria, the wonky layout of Imperial City means the journey is slightly safer, but longer.
3) The invention parts are completely inaccessible to Free/Premium players. How intentional this is, I don't know, but it feels weird and petty.
4) The invention parts were honestly kind of a dumb idea to begin with.
So no, it's not hard to use the invention pieces post-character creation. It's just horribly user-unfriendly and a largely pointless design decision in the first place.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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I actually earned the cash on the alt. Bit of Wentworth's/Vendor arbitrage. Was quicker for me than others because I have access to /auctionhouse.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
1) You need the resources and Inf to craft the piece in the first place. Yeah, yeah, just send everything via email. The point is that it's still a hoop to jump through.
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| 2) You have to craft the pieces before you can wear them, and there's nowhere to do so in the starting zones. It's not a long walk to the Steel Canyon university or the Port Oakes abandoned lab, but both paths are filled with enemies that can easily kill a level 1, in Port Oakes moreso than Steel. And in Praetoria, the wonky layout of Imperial City means the journey is slightly safer, but longer. |
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| 3) The invention parts are completely inaccessible to Free/Premium players. How intentional this is, I don't know, but it feels weird and petty. |
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| 4) The invention parts were honestly kind of a dumb idea to begin with. |
Don't want the Incarnate or Roman or weapon unlocks in there though.
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| So no, it's not hard to use the invention pieces post-character creation. It's just horribly user-unfriendly and a largely pointless design decision in the first place. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I have a character named Great Caesar's Ghost. I had to camp the name for over four months until the Valentine's event just to be able to get him clothing and a hairstyle that made sense. Then I had to get to level 35+ and do what was at the time considered one of the toughest task forces in the game to make him "battle-ready." Could I have "faked it" without doing any of that? Sure. But the name would have basically been meaningless. Also, I made him pre-Shields. I'd like to re-make him so I can take advantage of those, but there's no way I'm going to go through all that again to get things I already earned because they're not account-wide unlocks. I would, however, be willing to shell out five bucks for the privilege.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
All I would say to this is that your collective definitions of "getting a character to look right" must be extremely limited if you're going to keep letting the fact that a tiny handful of costume items (out of the thousands that are available by default) are locked to starting characters bother you. Mountain, meet molehill.
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I recently made a character named Butterfly Knife. The "Knife" part I could do in character generation. The "Butterfly" part not so much; I had to mail myself influence, log onto the new character wingless, collect the inf, buy the materials, craft them, then add the wings to the character. Is it that big a deal? Not really. But I could have used that time to play the game. And if I decide a week from now that I'd rather use this other secondary over here, or maybe make the character a different AT, the hassle makes me a lot less likely to do that. What's probably going to happen is that the character will sit unplayed for months as every time I log on, I'll look at that character, say, "oh, right, I wanted to make that change," then tell myself I've got other things I'd rather be doing right now than deal with all that crafting and installation again and I'll worry about it tomorrow.
If it's worth a couple of bucks to me to have those two characters work visually "out of the box" without actually affecting their capabilities, who does it hurt?
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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From my perspective, it's pretty much the same "creation versus accomplishment" argument that's been ongoing for years now. Except in the case of the Invention parts, any possible feeling of accomplishment was stripped from them when the drop rate was increased to appease the folks who were most likely to use them. And even when they were somewhat rare, the randomness of the drops (both the drop itself, and the likelihood that you at all cared about Fairy Wings or any other particular part) probably made them less appealing to an accomplishment-oriented player.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
There is a point to it however, although strangely the people form whom this is intended largely hate it.
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Now that the market on them has since completely collapsed (not that there even was a very large one before the drop rate increase) and it's become pathetically easy to cherry pick the part(s) you want off the market, it really would be a good idea to just remove them from the drop pool and add all of the pieces to the costume creator for free.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Agreed. The Inventions pieces are lost. |
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
From my perspective, it's pretty much the same "creation versus accomplishment" argument that's been ongoing for years now. Except in the case of the Invention parts, any possible feeling of accomplishment was stripped from them when the drop rate was increased to appease the folks who were most likely to use them. And even when they were somewhat rare, the randomness of the drops (both the drop itself, and the likelihood that you at all cared about Fairy Wings or any other particular part) probably made them less appealing to an accomplishment-oriented player.
Now that the market on them has since completely collapsed (not that there even was a very large one before the drop rate increase) and it's become pathetically easy to cherry pick the part(s) you want off the market, it really would be a good idea to just remove them from the drop pool and add all of the pieces to the costume creator for free. |
I see where the devs are going with it though. When they create new systems like Incarnates or Inventions, they are trying to get buy-in from as many players as possible. Some folks are clothes-horses and could care less about how powerful their characters are. So they put costume bits in there for them so that they have an incentive to try out the new system.
It's not a good idea I think. Folks who do care about player power tend to be more achievement oriented in general and so 'gaming' systems like Incarnates and Inventions are right up their alley. Folks who primarily focus on the RP, character concepts and fantasy of the genre just get annoyed because for them it's like starting a character with no powers. It just doesn't work.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I'm offering to literally and unironically put my money where my mouth is. Whether I'm wrong, biassed or psychotic, what difference does it make. You can't change that simple fact - I would pay full Booster Pack price for JUST the Rularuu weapons. I'm not saying this as a threat. I'm saying this as a simple fact. If and when the option becomes available, I will buy it.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
All I would say to this is that your collective definitions of "getting a character to look right" must be extremely limited if you're going to keep letting the fact that a tiny handful of costume items (out of the thousands that are available by default) are locked to starting characters bother you. Mountain, meet molehill.
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Any character assassination beyond that is irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's how I see it, more or less. These days, I dump any costume recipe I get which I can't use on the Market for 1 inf specifically so people who want it can "cheat" the system more easily. Whenever I need a specific kill count badge to unlock a specific weapon, I'll solicit the help of a friend of mine or, if it comes to that, a ask complete strangers over global channels, and possibly make friends in the process. If someone asks me to help, I will drop what I'm doing and help out immediately.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
I recently made a character named Butterfly Knife. The "Knife" part I could do in character generation. The "Butterfly" part not so much; I had to mail myself influence, log onto the new character wingless, collect the inf, buy the materials, craft them, then add the wings to the character. Is it that big a deal? Not really. But I could have used that time to play the game. And if I decide a week from now that I'd rather use this other secondary over here, or maybe make the character a different AT, the hassle makes me a lot less likely to do that.
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As of right now, I'm doing what I can to trivialise the unlocking process for costume pieces both for myself and for others. If I could ELIMINATE it at the cost of, say, $10, then I would do so in a heartbeat. This game has more than enough things to earn and achieve. Cosmetics doesn't need to be among them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think you know where I stand on the matter as well, so allow me to play the part of Memphis Bill and be flabbergasted that we've agreed on something. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I see where the devs are going with it though. When they create new systems like Incarnates or Inventions, they are trying to get buy-in from as many players as possible. Some folks are clothes-horses and could care less about how powerful their characters are. So they put costume bits in there for them so that they have an incentive to try out the new system.
It's not a good idea I think. Folks who do care about player power tend to be more achievement oriented in general and so 'gaming' systems like Incarnates and Inventions are right up their alley. Folks who primarily focus on the RP, character concepts and fantasy of the genre just get annoyed because for them it's like starting a character with no powers. It just doesn't work. |
I do honestly fear that based on the decisions made over the years that Paragon Studios just doesn't get how and why people use their character creator or any other given element of the game for that matter. It's as if they're content that the character creator is popular, but uninterested in why it's popular and with whom.
I could easily be wrong, but it's one of only a few possible explanations as to why they keep making what appear to be the same mistakes over and over again.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Mostly, I'm pretty neutral on the whole topic. I'm happy to argue for the devs position because I'm a jerk and I like to argue.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I think you know where I stand on the matter as well, so allow me to play the part of Memphis Bill and be flabbergasted that we've agreed on something.
I do honestly fear that based on the decisions made over the years that Paragon Studios just doesn't get how and why people use their character creator or any other given element of the game for that matter. It's as if they're content that the character creator is popular, but uninterested in why it's popular and with whom. I could easily be wrong, but it's one of only a few possible explanations as to why they keep making what appear to be the same mistakes over and over again. |
I think their justification is that there is some non-zero number of gamers who once you give them an incentive (costume shinies) to try a different form of content they will like it and embrace it. It's the same reason that the devs didn't immediately create a solo option for Incarnates I think.
Once you've gotten a player to enjoy a different activity, that deepens their connection to the game and increases their likelihood of staying subbed and/or spending more money. For sure it's worked for me.
I'm probably as big of an RP nut as anyone. I have rolled alts for no other reason that I thought of a fun concept. I've spent more time writing the character bio than I did picking their powers. When I originally started CoH, I picked my BS/Regen Scrapper fully on concept. Her concept included wings and we know how long it took for them to come around!
But slowly through various incentives, I'm come to like a lot of different things that CoH offers. And it's made me a zealot for the game. That said, I've seen plenty of people over the years disappear from the boards and the game because they really don't like certain activities and are unhappy that rewards that they like are gated behind them.
So, I'm not sure if this strategy works or not. I suspect there is some value to it because the devs keep doing it.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I'm one of the people who has no interest in gaming the system, and putting what I've historically described as "bribes" - that is, things I care about in systems I don't care for - as an attempt to get me to try them has just the opposite effect. Not only do I not attempt the system and just get angry I can't have what's "hidden" behind it, but I grow to resent the system as a matter of principle. There's something I want and something that's keeping me from it, so I resent that obstacle. Sometimes to a great extent.
Personally, I want to see all cosmetic items divorced from any sort of achievement or challenge, to the extent that those exist, and the rewards for such be replaced with practical things. The simple fact is that it's fairly easy to determine what's good and bad when it comes to functionality, simply by asking the question "Does it work well?" In many cases, this is mathematically provable one way or another, if not by me then at least by Arcana. No so with costume pieces. You can't ask "Does this look better/stronger/more impressive?" This is simply in the eye of the beholder.
Not only does tying pieces to achievements risk locking pieces some people don't care about (Roman gear isn't "better," it's just specific to a certain set of concepts), but it risks ruining said gear for people entirely. For instance, I get infinitely pissed off every time I see Ascension pieces, not because they look bad (they're actually pretty good) but because I started off resenting them for what they represent. Over time, my brain skipped a step and started resenting the pieces themselves. Right now, I'm not sure if I even COULD use them even if they were given to me for free.
My basic premise is just dump anything cosmetic that doesn't make characters stronger in the store and let people decide what's worth owning and what isn't. By contrast, DO NOT sell anything that makes characters more powerful, and selling recipes is actually something I HATE. My only consolation is that it's generally too expensive, money-wise, to be widely used, but that's by far not enough.
Personally, I find it far more impressive for a character to be stronger and capable as a show of status and accomplishment, rather than for said character to look like a ponce.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Simple enough. Put EVERY costume piece that can be unlocked in-game into the store. This would have 3 benefits:
1. You'd be able to preview any costume in the creator without having to unlock them first.
2. More money for NCSoft to make us toys with.
3. People who desperately want the parts but hate whatever content unlocks them have an alternate unlock route, with the bonus of getting the parts on every character.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.