Looking To Upgrade
By
EvilRyu,
Posted on: 2011-09-26 09:19 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I just looked up the specs of your pc. it looks like it has 1 pciex16 slot and can support up to 2gb of pc3200ddr memory. i am going to make a guess that the power supply is about 250 watt. and the installed memory is 2 sticks of 512mb.
a low end video card, it will give you a better visual experience. you probably could put in a ati hd4350 or a hd5450.
examples
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127436
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127557
for memory you would need to get a 2gb pack like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231047
now there are no guarantees that it will work for you, it all depends on how much power your power supply is rated at.
your best option, providing your budget allows for it, is buy a new pc. newegg has one for 449.99 that will be a nice upgrade to your current system and the pricing isn't that bad
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883227314
How much better would it run with just the memory upgrade?
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
How much better would it run with just the memory upgrade?
|
Okay, 2GB of PC3200 (DDR400) memory is going to run you between $45 and $70.
The $45 stuff
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820178101
The $70 is the lowest-latency stuff.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231032
Another issue you have is that you're at about 18% free space on your OS drive. You're starting to get into the range when the NTFS filesystem starts losing performance due to not having enough free space to play with.
You can free up some of that by deleting old files, deleting Windows patch uninstall files (Browse into C:\Windows, click on Tools --> Folder Options, Go to the View tab, and check "View Hidden Files and folders". You'll see a bunch of blue (compressed) folders with names like $NTUninstallKB123456$. Delete them to free up space. Do NOT delete the $hf_mig$ folder though.) Just be warned, if you delete them, you won't be able to uninstall those patches later. But when was the last time you actually NEEDED to uninstall that stuff (answer should be "Almost never").
You'll see a decent performance bump in Windows apps by going to 2GB (the "sweet spot" for XP). But your rig is, frankly, too old to really get any major performance bumps out of it. And the amount of money you'd spend getting those bumps would be better served getting socked away to buy a new machine.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I run the game on the lowest graphical settings possible which I'm cool with because my computer works fine. If I were to purchase another computer, I'd be doing so essentially for Ultra Mode.
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
you won't notice much of an improvement with just the 2gb memory upgrade. add in a video card you will see an improvement, but really not much.
probably just save the money you would spend on buying these parts and put it towards something better might be the best thing to do, because then you are $45 to $100+ closer.
So your recommendation is simply saving towards a new computer?
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
So your recommendation is simply saving towards a new computer?
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Honestly, yes. Throwing memory or a marginally more powerful video card at it will be like throwing a band-aid on a cannon-ball hole through someone's chest.
Now, the GOOD news is that if you already have the dosh to spend out for some of these upgrades, you have a good chunk of what you need saved up already.
Take a look at Father XMas' low-end computer. And when I say "low end", only in comparison to some of the other parts lists he's got for beefier budgets. His budget system parts list will still make CoH SCREAM.
Also, if it's going to take a couple months to save up the rest, you'll look to be spending out right about the time all the Christmas deals hit. Making it easier to get stuff cheaply, or allowing you to trade up to a beefier rig because prices have dropped.
If you REALLY have to (and judging by my seeing CoH eat 1.8GB of memory tonight on my machine you may), toss the memory I suggested earlier into your current system and leave it alone after that. It won't make a HUGE difference, but it'll give you a bit more "slack space".
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Would recommend getting:
ASUS P8P67 B3
Interl Core i5 2500K
Corsair Vengeance 1600 xms 8GB (2x4GB)
Corsair TX V2 650W PSU
Geforce GTX 560TI, EVGA if possible, good stuff.
Windows 7 64 bit
That would not only let you run CoX on Ultra and capped screen-refresh fps but pretty much any game.
[mumbly]
Flippin forum logouts...
[/mumbly]
I'm going to post and edit mode so I can at least avoid writing this a third time.
First two sticks of 512MB DDR2-400 memory is about $30 at NewEgg. This assumes that what you have currently is two sticks of 512MB and not 4 sticks of 256MB.
Now more memory won't allow you to turn up your graphic settings but it will speed up zoning as well as reduce stuttering when moving around in a zone by reducing swap file access, which occurs when you don't have enough system memory for what you are doing. Indoor missions tend to have a much smaller set of data so other than the time to enter or reenter the mission being reduced, you shouldn't see any improvement within the mission.
I also notice you only have 18% of your hard drive free. You really should look in to freeing up a bit of space there as well as giving your drive a good defrag. When the game is patched a number of the game files can get fragmented and with a old single core with HT Pentium 4 with integrated Intel video needs all the help it can get. I use the free defragger from Auslogics which is a lot faster than the one that comes with XP.
As for inexpensive low power graphics cards, I would suggest an HD 6450. It's extremely low power but is significantly faster than either the HD 4350 or HD 5450. It lists for around $50 but many have a $10 to $20 rebate. You still won't be able to use Ultramode but you should be able to play with most of the other settings turned up and still get a lot better performance. Just watch out which video driver you use. Right now current AMD drivers are a touch unstable with this game, 11.3 or 11.4 seem to be the most stable.
Also due to the design of your system (BTX motherboard layout), I would try to stick with video cards that don't encroach into the adjacent slot because in a BTX layout, there isn't any, and long or wide video cards may interfere with the CPU heatsink and fan duct (interior photo). So single slot video cards that don't have double wide heatsinks or fans for cooling.
Now if you want to get a new computer so you can at least see Ultramode, well that's going to be a $500-800 minimum to get UM at low settings.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
If you want to upgrade, the video card upgrade makes the most sense, since you'll be able to keep that for a future PC. It will make the game look much better, since the lowest setting really looks quite bad compared to higher ones.
It's important to note, however, that new graphics cards aren't guaranteed to work with your old PC. I tried a Radeon 5750 on an Athlon X2 3800+ PC and it didn't work at all. I found out that a BIOS update should help (haven't tried it), but the short of it is that you have to be careful, and be prepared to return the card to the store if you can't get it to work.
System memory can help when you go in and out of the game, and perhaps level loading time, but it shouldn't affect the game itself much. It will however let you keep some other programs open. So it's a bit of a waste of money in the long run, but could improve quality of life.
Quote:
300W from what I saw on the Gateway site, but the quality usually matters more than what's written on the PSU. I killed my wife's PSU (before she was my wife) the first time I tried to play CoH on it. That was with a Pentium 4, GeForce 5200 and a 300W PSU. In short, no matter how you upgrade it, it's risky. A new PC is the best course of upgrade (though of course the most costly).|
Originally Posted by SliceNDice
i am going to make a guess that the power supply is about 250 watt.
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Anyway, I think I'll go back to the original post because of this:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
I'm looking to upgrade it now due to needing more visual memory to play the game longer.
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I was looking at this:
http://www.networklanding.com/ssprod..._id=1019289284
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
That's what we call a nettop. You heard of netbooks, this is one that sits on your desk but with a big screen. The upside it's the AMD E-350 and not Intel's Atom as the AMD comes with better integrated graphics.
CPU wise, your P4 may be faster. Graphics wise I would say that this will beat the integrated graphics in your current system remorselessly. What that means at the end of the day, running CoH, don't know except still no Ultramode. Maybe someone has a laptop or netbook that uses the E-350 and can chime in about their experiences.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
I was intending to post a guide to playing on the E-350 at one point, and while I might never get to it (before I drop to Premium) I figure that's a good place to share my initial impressions.
I have a Thinkpad X120e, and my experience with CoH is that it's playable but at a low frame rate. At the lowest settings you get 15-25 FPS in Atlas Park (which I consider playable). Unfortunately I can't do more testing right now due to the downtime, but I'll check later how the game works at 1600x900 resolution (the native res of the laptop is 1366x768, and I played windowed), and in Kings Row (which in the past has given me a lower frame rate than Atlas Park).
In any case, the general idea is to start at the lowest settings and go up from there as long as you're comfortable. I found the increasing texture sizes (world and character) is free, that it's possible to get low quality shading with bump maps without penalty, and also low quality water. It's possible to go even higher than that (such as medium or high quality shaders) and still maintain playable frame rates most of the time. Indoor mission tend to have high frame rates due to the smaller maps.
Note that I haven't teamed while testing, and large groups could be a problem, but at least just watching some 20 heroes or so at the Atlas Park plaza didn't make a serious dent on frame rates, even with character details at max (but particles at minimum).
I will try to test some more when the servers are back up.
Still, as Father Xmas said, this could be slower for non-game tasks than the Pentium 4. Still, the hard disk and additional RAM could offset any CPU slowness, so it's possible that overall you'll be satisfied with it.
What kind of frame rates are you currently getting? You can use '/showfps 1' to see them. Does the game feel acceptably smooth for you on your current PC?
Also, how much are you willing to pay for a new PC?
Quote:
^^^This. I wouldnt even bother doing an upgrade because the cost can easily meet or exceed what a new system is going to cost.
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Originally Posted by SliceNDice
you won't notice much of an improvement with just the 2gb memory upgrade. add in a video card you will see an improvement, but really not much.
probably just save the money you would spend on buying these parts and put it towards something better might be the best thing to do, because then you are $45 to $100+ closer. |
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
Around 350.
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Originally Posted by General_CoH
Also, how much are you willing to pay for a new PC?
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Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
Quote:
Well, if $350 is your limit, maybe look at (Dude, you're gettin') a Dell.|
Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
Around 350.
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http://www.dell.com/us/p/popular-desktop-deals
Look at the Inspiron 570.
It's not a GREAT computer or anything, but it's a GOOD step up from what you have now.
Also, it's expandable.
http://support.dell.com/support/edoc...n/cs/cs_en.pdf
The PDF shows it has a PCI-E slot in case you want to load in a discrete graphics card later.
The system comes with a 3Ghz AMD Tri-core CPU and 4GB of RAM (expandable to 8).
That's $349.99 plus shipping.
Currently the 7-business day shipping is free.
3-5 business day is $9
2 day is $15
Next day is $25
Honestly, nobody here could put together a decent enough parts list for you for cheaper than that.
This would get you up and running (barring problems with current Radeon drivers). And down the road a couple months, you could put in a discrete graphics card and give yourself a decent performance bump.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Just tested the E-350 on an 1920x1080 full screen window. That little chip rocks. Same frame rate as on the smaller display, meaning that it's the CPU that's limiting it, not the graphics side. As long as the world detail is set to 50% I'd consider it very playable. Atlas Park seems heavier than King's Row these days, by the way, after the graphical revamp. Anyway, looks like the E-350 PC can be a decent choice if you're not too demanding.
The Dell that Hyperstrike suggested is a better deal in the long run, though, because when you get a little bit extra money you could upgrade it with a better graphics card. Doesn't come with a monitor, though, unlike the HP. So (assuming you can get the HP for that price, it said out of stock) your choice is between a good looking all-in-one with a weak CPU and a decent, upgradable desktop PC with unimpressive but upgradable graphics. Either should be better for playing CoH than what you have now.
And of course there's the choice of spending under $100 to upgrade your current PC, which would also improve your current situation, but is a little risky on the graphics card front (since there's a chance the upgrade won't work).
If I spend 350, I'm NEVER upgrading the graphics card. Besides, I've played CoH on a Raedon 3200. It worked great and could use Ultra Mode. No reason the 4200 should be an issue.
However, it comes with no monitor or speakers. Purchasing the E-350 would leave me with enough left to immediately upgrade to a 1TB HD and I could possibly sell my current comp for 100 bucks to someone. No way I'd be able to sell it for that with no monitor or speakers. If it's CPU is an issue, couldn't I swap my Intel 4 with it?
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
Quote:
Different manufacturer (Intel Vs AMD) and so different motherboard/driver/processor pin layout and all that gubbins....
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Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
If it's CPU is an issue, couldn't I swap my Intel 4 with it?
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Quote:
Because nobody will ever need more than 640K of RAM.|
Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
If I spend 350, I'm NEVER upgrading the graphics card. Besides, I've played CoH on a Raedon 3200. It worked great and could use Ultra Mode. No reason the 4200 should be an issue.
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But mom! This P2 system I'm building will be all the computer I'll ever need!
Basically, over time, the game is going to continue to grow. Eventually you really DO want a dedicated graphics card. It doesn't need to be anything SPECTACULAR. You don't need to run out and get a GTX580 or anything. But a dedicated graphics card will give you better performance and free up system memory (which the on-board 4200 is taking up for it's graphics duties).
And it may not seem like it to you, but $350 is a an absolute pittance to be spending for a computer nowadays. I've paid 10x as much as that for 1000th the processing power.
Were you dropping $1500-2000 on an i7 machine with 16GB of RAM, Solid State Drives, and SLI video cards, I could see you wanting to be able to pick up a monitor and speakers too.
Quote:
| However, it comes with no monitor or speakers. Purchasing the E-350 would leave me with enough left to immediately upgrade to a 1TB HD and I could possibly sell my current comp for 100 bucks to someone. No way I'd be able to sell it for that with no monitor or speakers. If it's CPU is an issue, couldn't I swap my Intel 4 with it? |
Your issue is NOT disk space at this point. A 500GB drive is a good starting point and you can always augment later when you have spare cash. A 1TB drive does NOTHING for system performance.
You want to keep your eye on the prize here. I know you're seeing "ooh shiny" with the all-in-one. But you want a machine that's going to give you the most *bang*, in terms of graphics crunching power, for your buck. That's NOT the all-in-one. Things that aren't, necessarily, easily upgradeable for you are things like the CPU. The Inspiron570 gets you from point A to point B best.
Other things like memory and hard drive capacity ARE easily (and cheaply) upgradeable. Therefore it makes more sense to settle, initially, for smaller amounts to save money up front.
A slower CPU will just become outdated faster.
And if you can't sell them the old system for $100 without the monitor and speakers, see if they'll take it for $50. Then use the $50 to buy yourself the discrete video card. Or use it as a door stop.
And no you can't (and don't want to) swap your P4 in. It's an older, MUCH less efficient processor technology. Moreover, it's not pin-compatible with the socket on either of the motherboards.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
The HD 4200 plays alright, my folks have it on their HP.
I've gotten CoH configured there as 1K by 768, in a window, with the graphics slider set to the notch just below UM minumum and then I turned on the advance settings and shut off DoF and Bloom and up the character texture to very high.
Blue side is in you mid 20s to low 30s outside in a zone, lower red and gold side but much higher in indoor missions.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I've had my current computer for just shy of 7 years now. Outside of getting a network adapter for Wi-Fi, I've never upgraded it. I never upgraded my last computer either which I had for 6 years.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Because nobody will ever need more than 640K of RAM.
But mom! This P2 system I'm building will be all the computer I'll ever need! |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
You want to keep your eye on the prize here. I know you're seeing "ooh shiny" with the all-in-one. But you want a machine that's going to give you the most *bang*, in terms of graphics crunching power, for your buck. That's NOT the all-in-one. Things that aren't, necessarily, easily upgradeable for you are things like the CPU. The Inspiron570 gets you from point A to point B best.
|
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender
Quote:
But a Wi-Fi adaptor is an inexpensive extra (and you can get USB versions as well)
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Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
I've had my current computer for just shy of 7 years now. Outside of getting a network adapter for Wi-Fi, I've never upgraded it. I never upgraded my last computer either which I had for 6 years.
Fair enough. Sadly, the 570 doesn't include WiFi. |
Quote:
Can't you use the WiFi adaptor from your current PC?
|
Originally Posted by Justice_Bringer
Sadly, the 570 doesn't include WiFi. Which means a bit over 400...
|
Hello,
I've always been able to play CoH fine over the years (I had to shut everything but IE, Notepad or Wordpad, and Instant Messenger programs down), but I'm looking to upgrade it now due to needing more visual memory to play the game longer. What would you recommend?
---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.2.0.2---
DxDiag gathered at September 26, 2011 12:27 (-04:00)
Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.101209-1647)
System Manufacturer: Gateway
System Model: 702GE
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Central Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 996MB
.Net Memory Report: 125MB out of 996MB available
Page File: 1048MB (1378MB currently in use)
C Drive: (WDC WD2500JD-22HBB0) 43169MB out of 238472MB (18%) free
D Drive: (TSSTcorp CD/DVDW TS-H552B) zero-size drive
Windows directory location: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DirectX Diag version: 5.03.2600.5512 (32-bit version)
Display Notes: No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.
No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor's Max Resolution: 1600,1200
Video Device Name: Intel(R) 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family
Manufacturer / Chip: Intel Corporation / Intel(R) 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset
Video Memory: 64.0 MB
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.4764
Driver Date: 1/13/2007 11:33:00 AM
Driver Language: English
Sound Device Description: Realtek HD Audio rear output
Driver File: RtkHDAud.sys
Driver Version: 5.10.0000.5345
Driver Date: 12/21/2006 7:26:48 PM
Sound Device Description: StudioPro audio 1
Driver File: vrtaucbl.sys
Driver Version: 4.04.0007.1056
Driver Date: 4/22/2007 7:27:48 PM
WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: D915GSE
Motherboard Version: AAC77848-103
BIOS Manufacturer: Intel Corp.
BIOS Name: Default System BIOS
BIOS Version: GATEWA - 6f2
BIOS Release: 20041012000000.000000+000
Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1024x712
3D Resolution: 1024x712 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: No
Maximized: Yes
Screen Position: 0, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: No
Physics Quality: None
Maximum Particles: 100
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No
Anti-aliasing: Off
Anisotropic Filtering: None
Texture LOD Bias: Crisp
Water Effects: None
Bloom: 1.000 (turned off)
Depth of Field Enabled: No
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: No
Shader Detail: Unknown (4)
World Texture Level: Unknown (3)
Character Texture Level: Unknown (4)
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 0.500
Entity Detail Level: 0.300
Shadows Enabled: No
Shadow Mode: Disabled
Shadow Map Shader: Unknown (0)
Environmental Reflections: Disabled
Advanced Occlusion Settings: No
Ambient Occlusion: Off
Occlusion Strength: Off
Blur: Bilateral
Ambient Resolution: Performance
Gamma Correction: 1.000
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: No
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: Yes
Close Suppression Range: 3.000
Show Advertisements: Yes
Audio Mode: Performance
3D Audio: No
FX Sound Volume: 1.000
Music Sound Volume: 0.600
Show Advanced Graphics Options: Yes
Overall Graphics Quality: 0.000
Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
Transfer Rate: Unknown bytes/second
Current Game Version: ?
Installation Directory: C:\Program Files\City of Heroes
Mod files in the Data directory
No modifications found
Virtue: The-Invictus (Blue)
The Emissary of Justice - Level 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
The Emissary of Justice. - Level 50 WP/Fire Tanker
Mesmerius - Level 50 Psi/Mental Blaster
Nucleoa - Level 50 Rad/Son Defender