At What Point Is It a "Gimmick?"

The impetus for this post was a bugged run of the Underground Trial that I led last night, the details of which can be found here. In brief, the timer ran out during the final battle, but then continued to count positively, thus giving us enough time to complete the trial.

Up until yesterday's run, a useful tactic had been to pull the Avatar of Hamidon from the final room into the tunnels, which seemed to eliminate or at least severely decrease the Confusion effect. This made sense in accordance with The Underground Guide, which reads as though the confusion spores are tied to that final room rather than to the Avatar itself. However, the actual move "Discordant Spores" appears to be a very-large-range PBAoE around the Avatar itself. It is possible the recent patch fixed what was previously a bug.

In any case, the Avatar's confusion aura got me thinking: at what point does something go from a strategy-requiring obstacle to a mere gimmick for the sake of difficulty? The two examples that come to mind as "walking that fine line" are the Antimatter Pulse in the Keyes Island Trial, and the Confounding Spores of The Underground Trial. And as far as I'm concerned, they are part of two very different trials.

The Keyes Island Trial is fairly formulaic by design. Each of the three reactors requires you to grab temp powers and kite Anti-Matter around to the individual terminals in order to deactivate them. Yes, the manner in which you obtain the temp powers varies with each reactor, but way in which you take down each reactor is the same for all three. Then you fight Anti-Matter at the end. And all the while, you are dealing with a damage pulse every 30 seconds.

The Underground Trial, by contrast, is chock-full of variable strategy. Each of the War Walkers requires a slightly variable strategy to defeat (in addition to your classic debuff-and-attack strategy). Every stage is something new: the crystal trap, the long DoT-Spore-Infested tunnel with the bombs that require you to either stay way back or next to Desdemona, etc. And it all culminates in an large-scale showdown with a huge monster, which happens to have a mag-20, 600ft. radius Confuse PBAoE.

In my opinion, a gimmick is something that nigh-requires a certain type of power, inspiration, etc., to defeat. A league running the Keyes Island trial needs to be able to heal, whether that is through slotted up "Health," green inspirations, Rebirth Destiny powers, or simply healing powers from your primary and/or secondary. If you cannot out-regenerate that pulse every 30 seconds, much of the league will spend an equal amount of time both in hospital and in combat. A league running the Underground Trial needs to be able to get past that confusion at the end, whether that's through Clarion Destiny powers, Tactics and powers like it, or Break Free class inspirations. If you cannot, the league can end up spending a chunk of time harming their allies around them, or at the very least, not affecting the Avatar in any way.

Now, some would call that front-loading strategy. If you know ahead of time that a certain enemy will require a certain ability to defeat, it is only logical that you would bring that ability with you. I would like to read about how you justify one over the other.

As a final thought: The Underground Trial's strategy, with the exception of the final battle, is completely self-contained. That is to say, you do not need any specific ability to tackle 95% of the trial, which cannot be said for Keyes Island as the Pulse triggers every 30 seconds.

I have a very open mind about this, and while I have given my opinion (as any good discussion should start), it can always be swayed. I want to know where you draw the line and why.

You really don't need a specific AT for the final fight either. I find that a medium breakfree takes away the confusion affect.

I realize I may have been a little unclear, and (looking back at it) definitely too long-winded.

I do not believe any specific AT is required for either one of the aforementioned trials, or any trial for that matter. I am sorry if it came across that way. I was merely trying to use current and relative in-game examples as evidence.

I just want to know how different people define a "gimmick" and where one would draw the line between

• An obstacle that requires forethought and strategy to overcome (as opposed to just trying to steamroll it)

• An obstacle that is implemented for the sake of difficulty, but does not necessarily require much forethought nor strategy to overcome.

The confuse is an obvious gimmick that is thankfully resolved by planning ahead; you can cycle through Clarions or bring medium/large Break Frees you purchases on the auctionhouse.

What's much more difficult to overcome is the bias against melee ATs in the fight - the stacking PBAoE -defense/-resistance the Avatar fires off with regularity is ridiculous, along with the damage output. In addition to coordinated Clarion use you'll need to be firing off Barriers on at least 4 people, cycling through, or else bring in the usual crowd of buffers/debuffers. Pickup teams of mostly damage dealers/aggro control are going to have a very hard time of things.

A maximum of 20 global emails can be in a mailbox at any one time, and they obviously all come with the 60-day depreciation period.

From what I am gathering, it sounds like people see the Confounding Spores as a gimmick, one that they have to prepare for before attempting the trial. So here's another question:

Would you rather have something that requires prior preparation in terms of what you bring along on the mission, or would you prefer something within the mission that requires strategic planning and/or coordination to conquer?

For example, the Counfounding Spores. What if within that final room, there were 4 or 5 "Spore Pods" (that would be emitting the Confounding Spores, and thus, the confusion) that would be glowing objectives, requiring a synchronized shutdown (click), every 30 seconds OR each time a quarter mark of the avatar's life is reached (for a total of 4 clicks: 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%). Or would you rather have them in their current incarnation, requiring you to bring along some measure of confusion protection?

i think they are fine as is

absolutely do not like simul clicks

I already made my feelings on the pulse that bypasses everything in the Keyes trial known. For those that missed it I think it sucks warm donkey balls.

I hate the gimmick feel of a lot of these final conflict missions in the game, but TOTALLY understand and respect the devs dilemma and why they are there. Shrug.

To me, the difference between a cheap gimmick and a fair gimmick is the difference between the confusion spores and the regenerating war walker. The former can only be solved by certain powers/items that have to be brought to the trial ahead of time, and have no real degree of difficulty should you have the necessary prerequisites. The latter, on the other hand, require team coordination and smart playing. I prefer the latter.