Vehicles! [That can actually be done..]
By
Crazy_Dragon,
Posted on: 2011-09-11 12:18 in Suggestions and Ideas
Just an edited copy of Memphis Bill's vehicle copy/paste.
Quote:
Of course the devs could address the use of powers like they have with Hover Board, where you can't use any powers while Hover Board is active!!!
|
Long answer: There are a lot of problems with the idea. 1. Movement. Forward and back,even turning - ok. But you can do things that a vehicle can't - such as strafe (direct side to side or angular movement.) It doesn't work with a vehicle. There are also issues such as drift and "realistic" handling. We can go side to side, as mentioned, and make immediate right angle turns. Cars... not so much. 2. Movement, part 2. Go stand in the road. No, not you personally. Take your character out and stand in the road, if you're heroside. Or even in the path of civilians. What happens? You get pushed. While not as big an issue with a motorcycle, perhaps, a car would have issues. What happens if two cars meet head on - yours and an NPC, or yours and another player's? Do you just pass through each other? Would you be satisfied with that very odd result? Or would you get stuck? How about those NPCs, can they walk and push your car, or are they walking through it? Neither answer is very satisfying, and intelligent, dynamic pathing is too computationally expensive. 3. Terrain. Not every place has roads, or even makes sense for "off roading." Go look at Founder's Falls. Go look at Crey's Folley. Or Eden. Try to get to the north islands in Talos. What, do you have a kubelwagen? Look at the Pit in Sharkshead. Try to use your travel power (car) to get up to some of the doorways in high caves. Cars and motorcycles would be more like Superspeed - horizontal movement, period. And look - I'll be blunt - flat out *stupid* tied with, say, Combat Jumping or Superjump. 4. Combat. You get ambushed on the way. How do you fight? Just have your powers blast out of the rolled up windows? How do you buff or debuff? EVERY power would need a new animation. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Then you want people with motorcycles instead of cars. Redo ALL the animations AGAIN. And they still wouldn't make sense - how do you use Footstomp in a car? Or Stalagmites? 5. Customizing. Yeah, it would come up. Not everyone would want a sports car, or a mid-70s Buick boat, or an exotic, or a minivan, or whatever else. 6. Making "sense." This was touched on in terrain - how do you get across water? How about the Shadow Shard? And if you want downright ridiculous looking, go do the heroside 25-34 Respec. Look at the Sky Skiffs inside of rooms or the reactor room. It makes no sense and looks *ridiculous.* Something that, yes, the devs try to avoid. That's just a quick overview of why vehicles as generally envisioned aren't a spectacular idea for a travel power. |
The Chaser and Combat Walker ideas I would love to see come to fruition, but I also realise the work it might take for them to ever happen.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Even simpler would be to code all of those Helicopter Landing Pads to be able to give you a Temp Power that gives you Flight and transforms your character into a Helicopter (with your character inside) that has a very large hitbox (so as to give ground clearance and clearance away from buildings, etc. for "novice" flyers) that prevents use of Trams and Tunnels and so on to switch zones. The only way to "cancel" the Helicopter Temp Power would be to "land" on any of the Helicopter Pads in the same zone. And of course, while you're in Helicopter Flight, you have access to no other powers. Some zones, such as Peregrine Island and the Praetorian Zones however might allow you to exit the zone and stay in Helicopter Flight in the new zone, but you'd still need to find a Pad to land at to disembark.
You could even do something similar for Bus Stops ... where characters "transform" into Busses that are only allowed to drive on city streets (ie. special terrain type only, no jumping, etc.). The basic idea being that there are Special Locations at which you can "turn these powers on and off" at, and that the rest of your powers are locked out while you are "transformed" in this way.
There wouldn't be any real "advantage" to doing this ... other than (I suppose) Safe Travel ... since presumably it would be possible to code the Vehicle Forms as being untargetable by either Players or NPCs ... which in and of itself ought to be more than enough of an "excuse" for wanting to use this, beyond the sheer RP value and "Fun Factor" of being able to drive and fly around zones as Vehicles, rather than running/jumping/flying/teleporting around as Characters.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
On the subject of terrain, what about disabling such powers over certain terrain and within certain maptypes?
Sam: "My mind is a swirling miasma of scintillating thoughts and turgid ideas."
Max: "Me too."
Stuff
Helicopters, Longbow Chasers, and (why weren't they mentioned?) Sky Skiffs can all strafe, and if they stop you using powers while you're in them the way the hoverboard does, I see no problem.
,'&#
{}... .-
01234
"*_
?;!hgfauirebcew
Quote:
Just want to point out that having a means of "safe" travel defeats the purpose of the ambushes that are spawned outside in the zones by certain missions.
|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
There wouldn't be any real "advantage" to doing this ... other than (I suppose) Safe Travel ....
|
Quote:
Unless they were earned powers as part of a set OR alternatives to flight, then strafe would not need to be disabled.
|
Originally Posted by FlashToo
Helicopters, Longbow Chasers, and (why weren't they mentioned?) Sky Skiffs can all strafe, and if they stop you using powers while you're in them the way the hoverboard does, I see no problem.
|
Quote:
Why would strafe need to be disabled in the first place. Having strafe is actually a good thing for the vehicles that were mentioned because our characters can also strafe.|
Originally Posted by Remaugen
Unless they were earned powers as part of a set OR alternatives to flight, then strafe would not need to be disabled.
|
One of the problems other vehicles have is that they CAN'T strafe.
Quote:
"Yeah, I was ambushed by a dogpile of crazy 5th Columnists, but I managed to escape from them without any trouble."|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just want to point out that having a means of "safe" travel defeats the purpose of the ambushes that are spawned outside in the zones by certain missions.
|
"Really? How? What did you do?"
"I caught a bus."
"..."
"Y'know ... a bus. At a bus stop."
"..."
"Look, once I was on the bus, I knew they couldn't follow me."
"Is this the part where I'm supposed to swoon and cry out 'My Hero!' as I fall over in a dead faint, because you caught the bus?!?"
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Just have to point something out....
Quote:
I think you have an old copy (or edited out a bit of discussion,) as the OP - other than having the attacks there - is fairly close to an addendum I put in there where I mentioned "this might work as a temp power" bit. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just an edited copy of Memphis Bill's vehicle copy/paste.
Of course the devs could address the use of powers like they have with Hover Board, where you can't use any powers while Hover Board is active!!! |
Oh, and - not that I'm trying to pick on you, Forbin
but... Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just want to point out that having a means of "safe" travel defeats the purpose of the ambushes that are spawned outside in the zones by certain missions.
|
As far as the OP, the temp power attacks are probably the biggest issue. For the Kheld forms, for instance, I have a tray set aside and macros set to use. I don't think I'd do that for a temp power.
The walker...
There was a thread that survived many forum purges, finally falling victim to one a few years ago, called the "Mecha EAT." The walker sounded like its baby brother
but it sounds like something that would have to be a powerset as opposed to a temp power or a pool. Some of these I could see working *as part of a mission arc* more easily (similar to Shelley Percy granting you some Nictus powers.)
Rocketboard is vehicle. We already got vehicles 
We won
Prunejuice is warriors drink.
Quote:
I edited the stuff above and below what I posted. That included the tips on how to Search and the temp power bit.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Just have to point something out....
I think you have an old copy (or edited out a bit of discussion,) as the OP - other than having the attacks there - is fairly close to an addendum I put in there where I mentioned "this might work as a temp power" bit. |
Quote:
|
Oh, and - not that I'm trying to pick on you, Forbin but... Just the other day I finally saw a Council ambush. It's probably the first ambush I've seen spawned by a mission in months. We've had a means of safe travel that avoids those... well, since game release, in the form of the power pools. If the ambush isn't spawned *right* by the door, there's a good chance it'll be missed by anyone not AFK after the mission. |
The issue I was really addressing was the idea that NPC's wouldn't be able to attack if the power was being used. That just seems to go against what the devs want for the game.
Quote:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I never said strafing would need to be disabled, in fact, I said the opposite as applied to those vehicles.
|
Originally Posted by Remaugen
Unless they were earned powers as part of a set OR alternatives to flight, then strafe would not need to be disabled.
|
,'&#
{}... .-
01234
"*_
?;!hgfauirebcew
My bad, I guess I misread your post!
Hovercar/Helicopter
Functionally the same as the 'Hover Board' power, this power is also a costume power; when toggled, it replaces your character with the appropriate vehicle. It gives a modest damage protection/status protection to help keep you alive/in the air, but negates all of your various abilities.
Longbow Chaser(/Any other flying vehicle)
When you get this power, you also acquire a subset of two other powers which can only be used while its active; much like the Nova form of your Kheldian buddies, this essentially turns you into a flying weapons platform, with a low-damage fast-recharge gun attack and a mod-damage long-recharge missile attack. All other abilities are, of course, disabled while riding.
Combat Walker (Vanguard HVAS/any other large mechanical walker that can fit in mission maps)
This power also creates a subset of other powers that can only be used while active; varying from vehicle to vehicle, be it a giant mechanical spider or a bipedal Vanguard war machine, this one would likely have a limited duration/charges, and turn you into a giant killing machine for a time; like a Heavy, but with your own health/End.
Battle Tank/Armored Car(Or honestly any ground vehicle)
This power, unlike the others, might not work within the existing framework; they have models for these, but it isn't difficult to see how they could break where missions come up. Sure you see tanks in the RWZ; but fitting one down a hallway? How could a car handle the numerous small jumps needed for many missions/zones? Unfortunately not really a viable option.
***
Any such power functions as a costume/transformation; I could imagine the Paragon Market and VIP market containing noncombat vehicles, and charges to use the combat ones; Vanguard merits being used to acquire a pilotable heavy mecha; missions involving Longbow, Arachnos, Sky Raiders, etc where a vehicle is stolen, and you acquire a limited-use power; (We need you to hijack a Longbow Chaser from this airfield, get past the enemy air defenses, and land. You can feel free to use the Chaser once the mission is over, but you only have 1 hours worth of fuel, and the transponder that keeps you from being shot down will be flagged by longbow as soon as you leave. Once there, get inside the base and set the reactor to self destruct so we can clear this area of Longbow.)
The big downside of such is, of course, the inability to customize them. Power Customization might offer an avenue for such; but I can't see that working for a temp power. If it did, they'd likely have a couple of different bodies, then you pick the primary and secondary color.
All the tech exists in the game to do this. Its simply a matter of whether its considered worthwhile.
"Why do these Lost keep trying to hold me? Don't they know I don't swing that way?"