Some quick, newbish questions about building a tank


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

I don't have much experience building a tank so I had a couple of quick questions that I couldn't find answers for. I've read a bunch of tanker guides (mostly the general ones about being a good tank). I have a Shield/Electric that's leveled to 39.

1. With Shield/, you're working with 2 different types of defense, right? So can I soft cap all situational with an IO set, or would I have to use enhancements in other powers to meet it? Is it possible to get close to soft capping typed damage (lethal/smashing, etc)?

2. Is there a guide that details what enemies do what type of damage? As a Shield/, what type of damage is a big weakness?

3. I've seen that LotG is a really popular set. Is it that much worse to use, say, Red Fortune, or one of the other sets? I'd say maintaining aggro and being able to take damage are a lot bigger priorities than doing damage, for what I want to do with this toon post-50.

4. Are there any tanker-, or Shield-specific, things I should know as far as slotting, damage types, situational defense, etc goes?

Thanks in advance for any help!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrOctagon View Post
I don't have much experience building a tank so I had a couple of quick questions that I couldn't find answers for. I've read a bunch of tanker guides (mostly the general ones about being a good tank). I have a Shield/Electric that's leveled to 39.

1. With Shield/, you're working with 2 different types of defense, right? So can I soft cap all situational with an IO set, or would I have to use enhancements in other powers to meet it? Is it possible to get close to soft capping typed damage (lethal/smashing, etc)?

2. Is there a guide that details what enemies do what type of damage? As a Shield/, what type of damage is a big weakness?

3. I've seen that LotG is a really popular set. Is it that much worse to use, say, Red Fortune, or one of the other sets? I'd say maintaining aggro and being able to take damage are a lot bigger priorities than doing damage, for what I want to do with this toon post-50.

4. Are there any tanker-, or Shield-specific, things I should know as far as slotting, damage types, situational defense, etc goes?

Thanks in advance for any help!
1) Shield really only helps with Positional Defense, so that's the one you're going to want to go with. When the game checks to see if you get hit with an attack, it only uses the highest value you have against that attack. So, let's say that you've got 20% Melee Defense, 10% Fire Defense, and 5% Lethal Defense. You get attacked with Fire Sword, which is a Fire/Lethal/Melee attack. In this case, since your Melee Defense is the highest applicable Defense you have, the game uses that.

As such, it doesn't make any sense to try to soft cap both Positional AND Typed Defenses, as the game's only going to use one value anyways, and Positional actually covers more attacks anyways.

In order to get to the Defense soft-cap, you're going to have to use sets with Positional Defense bonuses. You're not going to get there with powers alone.

2) No list that I'm aware of, but as a Shield/ Tank, the only attacks you need to worry about are attacks without a positional attack type, such as many of the Mind Control attacks, which most enemies don't get.

3) LotG is a really popular set for both the set bonuses, as well as the +Recharge IO within the set. Since most people want that IO, the set itself becomes a bit more popular. However, if the set bonuses from Red Fortune are more what you're looking for, it's a good way to go.

4) Just don't slot more than three SOs worth of any single enhancement type in a single power. After that, Enhancement Diversification sets in and you get pretty meager benefits of adding more of that type. For instance, in your Defense powers, adding more than three Defense SOs is largely useless.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrOctagon View Post
I don't have much experience building a tank so I had a couple of quick questions that I couldn't find answers for. I've read a bunch of tanker guides (mostly the general ones about being a good tank). I have a Shield/Electric that's leveled to 39.

1. With Shield/, you're working with 2 different types of defense, right? So can I soft cap all situational with an IO set, or would I have to use enhancements in other powers to meet it? Is it possible to get close to soft capping typed damage (lethal/smashing, etc)?
Shield Defense only provides positional defense, so that's what you should concentrate on. You'll get some typed defense from pool powers and set bonuses, but by and large the two types are redundant. It may be possible to soft-cap some damage types on SD tank, but its DEFINITELY not worth it; don't try.

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2. Is there a guide that details what enemies do what type of damage? As a Shield/, what type of damage is a big weakness?
One of the benefits of positional defense is that it covers almost all attacks you'll face in the game. The only exceptions that I know of are the few attacks without a positional tag, notably a few Psi attacks. But it's only a handful of specific attacks and not worth building in protection for them.

Quote:
3. I've seen that LotG is a really popular set. Is it that much worse to use, say, Red Fortune, or one of the other sets? I'd say maintaining aggro and being able to take damage are a lot bigger priorities than doing damage, for what I want to do with this toon post-50.
Players like LotG because it has very nice bonuses, particularly the +Recharge IO. Any other defense set will work fine, though I wouldn't bother to use more than 4 slots per power. Gift of the Ancients is a good alternative, not nearly as expensive as LotG and it has good recovery and +end bonuses.

Quote:
4. Are there any tanker-, or Shield-specific, things I should know as far as slotting, damage types, situational defense, etc goes?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Hmm, well, two of the SD powers provide damage resistance as a secondary benefit--Deflection and True Grit. Although they should be slotted primarily for defense and heal respectively, it is worthwhile to put a couple of resistance slots in there as well.

Also, SD is unusual in that it has click rather than toggle mez/KB protection--Against All Odds. All AAO really needs is a couple of recharge slots, but if you can afford a couple of Membrane Hami-Os it will actually increase your defense debuff resistance.

Phalanx Fighting provides defense to the player as well as nearby allies. The 5% "self" defense is unenhanceable, so consequently most players don't slot PF very heavily.

Lastly, Grant Cover is primarily a ally defense boost, but it does provide some defense debuff resistance to the player as well. For that reason, it's worth getting if you can fit it in.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

To echo a couple of things Finduilas pointed out, Grant Cover includes some defense debuff resistance, don't skip this if you can help it. Active Defense contains the rest, and membranes can be used (at least for now) to enhance the DDR in that power. Double stacked AD, or as close as you can get, adds benefits: the ddr in the power will stack with itself, and doubled mez protection is really nice when fighting carnies.

Non-positional psi dmg will be the most dangerous thing to a shield tank- this occurs fairly rarely in game. Malaise, Vanessa DeVore, maybe a couple of carnie attacks? It's not worth building for, imo. Enemies with +to hit buffs can be dangerous as well (venged Nemesis, praetorian DE).

A shield tank will cap defenses by slotting the powers in your primary and adding a steadfast 3% defense unique and six-slotting a set of Guassian's (in build up, usually, though focused accuracy or tactics will also take the set). After you reach the softcap, you can decide whether to build for trial cap (59%) or pursue other set bonuses, such as +hp, regen, recovery, recharge.

edit to add: you also need to take combat jumping and weave for the above to get you softcapped.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finduilas View Post





Also, SD is unusual in that it has click rather than toggle mez/KB protection--Against All Odds. All AAO really needs is a couple of recharge slots, but if you can afford a couple of Membrane Hami-Os it will actually increase your defense debuff resistance.
Actually, AAO is the taunt aura for Sheild which boosts your damage for each opponent surrounding you. I always leave it with the single default slot and put an endurance reduction in it.

Active Defense is the click mez protection power for Shield. As such, I normally see people just 2 slot it for recharge reduction. Or put HO's in there but still just usually 2 slots. And normally this power is put on suto.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Body View Post
Actually, AAO is the taunt aura for Sheild which boosts your damage for each opponent surrounding you. I always leave it with the single default slot and put an endurance reduction in it.

Active Defense is the click mez protection power for Shield. As such, I normally see people just 2 slot it for recharge reduction. Or put HO's in there but still just usually 2 slots. And normally this power is put on suto.
Ooops, you're absolutely correct, I got the names mixed up. Thanks for the correction.

Slotting Recap:

Against All Odds - end reduction in the base slot
Active Defense - two recharge commons or two Membrane Hami-Os


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJI View Post

Non-positional psi dmg will be the most dangerous thing to a shield tank- this occurs fairly rarely in game. Malaise, Vanessa DeVore, maybe a couple of carnie attacks? It's not worth building for, imo. Enemies with +to hit buffs can be dangerous as well (venged Nemesis, praetorian DE).
A lot of enemies who have the power Dominate have a non-positional version of it.

I think Rikti Chief Mesmerists have a non-positional version, but it's been a while since I fought them with a positional defense based character, so I don't recall for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

But psi damage as whole is a 'hole' in many tank sets, those are just things you have to rely on your team for it.

Quote:
A shield tank will cap defenses by slotting the powers in your primary and adding a steadfast 3% defense unique and six-slotting a set of Guassian's (in build up, usually, though focused accuracy or tactics will also take the set). After you reach the softcap, you can decide whether to build for trial cap (59%) or pursue other set bonuses, such as +hp, regen, recovery, recharge.

edit to add: you also need to take combat jumping and weave for the above to get you softcapped.
If Mid's still going right, with plain IO's on manauvers, CJ, weave and Shield powers, you should hit just about 43%, but this toggle-show aint really endurance friendly


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