Questions about Ice/Cold Controllers
Flash Freeze is way skippable. Snow Storm I can see skipping on with all of the -speed/-recharge the build gets. AA is a cornerstone though. 3 slot end and confuse, and it's highly effective. /cold gets Heatloss, late mid you, so that will help offset some of the end cost.
I'd get Arctic Air late in the build, as Amy Amp mentioned you will have Heat Loss and that will greatly offset any endurance issues you may have, especially if you have a pleasant amount of global recharge.
Snow Storm is skippable, even on my Cold/Sonic I rarely end up using it. Flash Freeze is skippable, but if you want a cheapish purple set it's a decent place for it.
There will be a Karma KB protection in CJ so I'll be running it for the slight Def boost plus the KB protection.
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Addressing your main question, I'll often skip the AoE Sleep powers. I absolutely took the other two and use them regularly. My ice/FF controller is 50 and my plant/cold controller is 45. The END usage on some of those toggles is a bear but they're worth it so I find a way to work around it (generally +recovery set bonuses from IO's).
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I think I can work Arctic Air into my build later and then the end shouldn't be as much of an issue, as was mentioned. I like Snow Storm but just couldn't seem to get enough use out of it on my cold defender because on PUGs, the anchor always dies too soon, and when soloing it's hard to run that many end heavy toggles and use all hold and attacking powers repeatedly.
Oh, awesome. Good to know! I was thinking that would only happen in an inherent but that you'd have to have the toggle on to get the continuous benefit from it in a toggle power.
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Globals - These work as set bonuses so work, even in a grayed out power due to exemplaring, as long as your exemplar'd level is not lower than the IO's -3 (min. level to slot the IO).
Procs - these need the power to be activated/active to trigger. In autos/toggles/rain, will (attempt) to trigger every 10 seconds.
"Proc120" - same triggering rules as a proc, other than they always trigger.
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There are three types of special IOs.
Globals - These work as set bonuses so work, even in a grayed out power due to exemplaring, as long as your exemplar'd level is not lower than the IO's -3 (min. level to slot the IO). Procs - these need the power to be activated/active to trigger. In autos/toggles/rain, will (attempt) to trigger every 10 seconds. "Proc120" - same triggering rules as a proc, other than they always trigger. |
My Ice/Storm skipped Snow Storm and Flash Freeze for her final build. I just couldn't make room for them, and the combo has plenty of slow already. Also, Flash Freeze is high on my personal list of contenders for The Worst Power in the Entire Game. I wouldn't even take it for a mule unless you have a power pick and four slots (to slot 5p Fortunata's Hypnosis) you really can't figure out how to use better.
Arctic Air I would also advise you to reconsider, it's a very very strong power, perhaps the best in Ice Control, when slotted up.
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I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
Arctic Air is a key power for an Ice Controller. Others have said that, but nobody has really explained why. It combines three control powers: Slow, Confuse and "Afraid." Foes in the area are slowed, have a chance for a short duration confuse, and when they are not confused, they slowly try to run out of the area.
The numbers on it are: 81.25% Slow (there is a 90% cap) with a 62.5% -Recharge (which is very, very important), -35% Stealth (so it will reveal stealthy foes), 50% chance of a 3.724 second Afraid (Mag 3) every 2 seconds (causing foes to try to run away instead of attack), 30% chance of a 3.725 second Confuse (Mag 3) every 2 seconds. Endurance cost is a hefty 2.08 every 2 seconds.
6-Slot up AA for max Confuse and EndRdx. That will nearly double the duration of the Confuse pulses. No single ability in Arctic Air is all that strong, but combined and joined with another control ability (like Ice Slick), Arctic Air will mitigate about 70-80% of the damage done by foes in the area. The endurance cost is large but manageable - the same as Fire's Hot Feet and Illusion's Superior Invis. AA turns Ice Control into a melee controller, able to follow the melee teammates into the battle and reduce the damage they take by 70-80% or more. Your teammates can first focus on the bosses knowing that the minions and lieutenants will be controlled.
What you will see is foes in the Arctic Air AoE act actually confused. They run towards you or your teammates, maybe attack, or maybe turn and attack one of the other foes, or maybe turn around to try to run out of the AA AoE, or sometimes go back and forth starting to run away and then starting to run to attack and then run away again. Add in Ice Slick, where the foes are slipping and falling in addition to the other effects, and it results in a huge mitigation.
You can use Frostbite to keep the foes in the area, but that kind of wipes out the "afraid" aspect of the power. The other side of that coin, however, is that foes will run out of the AoE and then, on occasion, attack from range.
Want to make Arctic Air even better? At level 50, get the purple Contagious Confusion proc. This proc seems to virtually double the confuse effect overall -- it is WONDERFUL in Arctic Air. I can't think of any other procs that make as big a difference. Other procs are OK, but only after capping Confuse, lots of EndRdx, and the Contagious Confusion proc.
To Draeth: I wouldn't consider Flash Freeze to be one of the worst powers in the game. It is certainly skippable, but a ranged AoE sleep power has its uses. Solo or small team, it can be handy as an additional control power. It can control certain foes (like Council Wolves) who resist Immob and Slow. There are lots of worse powers than Flash Freeze. Like Fire Armor's Temperature Protection, a Fire Resistance power in a set that is already capped on Fire Resistance. Or just about any Intangibility power. Even Earth's Salt Crystals, which looks cool but is a PB AoE sleep instead of ranged like Flash Freeze.
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What you will see is foes in the Arctic Air AoE act actually confused. They run towards you or your teammates, maybe attack, or maybe turn and attack one of the other foes, or maybe turn around to try to run out of the AA AoE, or sometimes go back and forth starting to run away and then starting to run to attack and then run away again.
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You can use Frostbite to keep the foes in the area, but that kind of wipes out the "afraid" aspect of the power.
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Oh yes, the proc makes it even better. I ought to mention I was using it during my low-level experiment described in the preceding paragraph.
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I've recently gotten back into the game after being away for about a year. I rolled an ice/cold troller that is now up to level 31. I have an ice/emp troller and had a cold/ice defender so I've got some experience with both the primary and the secondary but I had some questions, particularly since some things have changed since I last played. There's a few powers in the primary and secondary that I intend to skip but I'm looking for some opinions about the utility of those powers before I get too much further along with leveling.
For background, I typically play on PUGs although I will solo sometimes (after I've hit lvl 32 and get Jack) and I'll run on TFs and Incarnate Trials eventually with this toon (no AE or farms). So I would say probably 90% of the time this toon will be on a PUG team and I'm really more concerned with end-game playability than how it plays as I level. As for playstyle, other than the obvious efforts to keep shields up on the team, I generally try to mitigate team damage with Ice Slick and/or Glacier once the tank has drawn the aggro and otherwise I'm focused on locking down bosses and lieutenants with holds and debuffing them or helping out a fellow squishy by freezing someone that is all over them. If things seem to be under control, I'll get into the middle of the fray to attack a locked down boss or lieutenant that all the melee people are ignoring while they beat up on minions, lol.
Here are the powers I intend to skip at this point: Flash Freeze, Arctic Air and Snow Storm. With my general playstyle and use for the toon in mind, I would be curious if anything thinks skipping any of these would be a mistake. My reasoning for skipping each is as follows:
Flash Freeze - Never had it before. I've never seen anyone get a benefit from a mass sleep power on a PUG though. People are going to attack everything that moves so the mass sleep effect last for about 2 seconds if you're lucky. Might have some usefulness soloing against huge spawns, but since I won't be soloing with this toon much, doesn't seem worth taking. I don't know if I've ever even seen someone use this power on an ice troller before. The only thing I can see it maybe being useful for at end game is the Lamdba trial in the warehouse or labs to keep the spawns off everyone but I have no idea how accurate it would be on those spawns.
Arctic Air - Had it once before but dropped it on a respec because it's such a huge end hog (takes twice the end that Snow Storm or Arctic Fog take). I plan on taking Frozen Armor from the Ice Epics. So eventually I'll be running 3 toggles basically continuously Arctic Fog, Frozen Armor and Combat Jumping. There will be a Karma KB protection in CJ so I'll be running it for the slight Def boost plus the KB protection. I could technically put the KB protection in Arctic Fog but the end really isn't much for CJ and I'd have to give up a slot somewhere else to add another slot to Arctic Fog for that. My toon is already an end hog (no set bonuses until I hit 47 and can slot my level 50 sets and no accolade bonuses yet and no end proc for my Alpha slot til I hit 50). With Sleet and Ice Storm already providing Targeted AoE -SPD and -RECH effects, it just doesn't seem to make sense to take AA which is a PBAoE toggle that also provides -SPD and -RECH effects. If I'm in the middle of a spawn, it will be because they are falling down or frozen, I wouldn't use AA for crowd control on a PUG. Arctic Fog just seems much more useful than AA because it's half the end cost, it grants team stealth effects and it grants defense. If someone can make an argument for AA though, I'm all ears...I've seen plenty of people run it before so somebody out there must like it.
Snow Storm - Had it on my cold/ice defender and it seemed to get little use on PUGs. It's another -SPD and -RECH AoE like AA but it's a Targeted AoE instead of a PBAoE and it's half the end cost of AA so it's definitely got some advantages over AA there. But again, with Sleet and Ice Storm, yet another -SPD and -RECH AoE seems like a waste, especially since it's a toggle. Worst of all, it requires an anchor, which on a PUG just turns the power into an exercise in frustration. Once the anchor dies (which is usually quickly), then the Snow Storm is gone and you're now an aggro magnet. While I love playing guess which mob the rest of the team is likely to kill last as much as the next guy, it just doesn't seem to be worth the hassle....didn't seem to get much use before.
Any thoughts either confirming my line of thinking here or making an argument for why one of these powers could be more useful than I think would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!