/unsigned
I don't believe that the primary and secondary powersets have that much flexibility to justify 10 separate builds.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've actually been trying to think just how many ways you could possibly build a functional toon using the same power sets without being a EAT or VEAT and I just can't fathom 10 possible builds...
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
/unsigned
I don't believe that the primary and secondary powersets have that much flexibility to justify 10 separate builds. |
The only way I can think of it is to make solo/team/pvp builds of multiple level ranges, and that's beyond silly.
I don't support the OP.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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well, Blood Rose has been:|
Originally Posted by NovaFang
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've actually been trying to think just how many ways you could possibly build a functional toon using the same power sets without being a EAT or VEAT and I just can't fathom 10 possible builds...
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Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence/Teleport
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Medicine
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Fighting/Body
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Weapon
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Dark
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence/Dark
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Medicine/Weaponry
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Teleport/Dark
and so on
actually, Blood Rose hit 50 before free respecs were coming out and she has used every single respec she has earned since 2004 when she was made as a scrapper in prelaunch, Vet, all three Trials, the granted and so on
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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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qft
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
/unsigned
I don't believe that the primary and secondary powersets have that much flexibility to justify 10 separate builds. |
@Redcap
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114. Ahrouns do not appreciate my particular brand of humour, so I should stop bleaching bulls-eyes in their fur.
Uh, yeah, in the past 7 years I've gotten more than 30 significantly different and enjoyable/playable builds just with my Dark/Regen and fluctuating her power pools and epic pools....
so forgive me if I find 10 builds less than daunting save in terms of expense
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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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So you admit you have nothing. How can I say that? Because you ignored what I posted.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
well, Blood Rose has been:
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence/Teleport Dark/Regen/Leaping/Medicine Dark/Regen/Leaping/Fighting/Body Dark/Regen/Leaping/Weapon Dark/Regen/Leaping/Dark Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence/Dark Dark/Regen/Leaping/Medicine/Weaponry Dark/Regen/Leaping/Teleport/Dark and so on actually, Blood Rose hit 50 before free respecs were coming out and she has used every single respec she has earned since 2004 when she was made as a scrapper in prelaunch, Vet, all three Trials, the granted and so on |
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| I don't believe that the primary and secondary powersets have that much flexibility |
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My main character (Claws/Regen scrapper) has gone through just as many variations. Currently he has ONE build, because it took me that many incarnations to settle on one that I felt covered all the things I wanted for him. |
Originally Posted by Lycanus
well, Blood Rose has been:
Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence/Teleport Dark/Regen/Leaping/Medicine Dark/Regen/Leaping/Fighting/Body Dark/Regen/Leaping/Weapon Dark/Regen/Leaping/Dark Dark/Regen/Leaping/Presence/Dark Dark/Regen/Leaping/Medicine/Weaponry Dark/Regen/Leaping/Teleport/Dark and so on actually, Blood Rose hit 50 before free respecs were coming out and she has used every single respec she has earned since 2004 when she was made as a scrapper in prelaunch, Vet, all three Trials, the granted and so on |
I can't see a need for more than 3 builds.
Question for you: How many of those different builds had significant differences between them? Looks to me like you were just swapping around pool powers. Did you change primary and secondary powers a great deal, or were they pretty much the same primary/secondary power choices with different pool powers?
In all of the builds I went through, my primary and secondary power set choices stayed largely the same, with an occasional minor variation (like taking Swipe instead of Strike). And most of those build changes, in retrospect, were unnecessary.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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My guess is even though you've been adventurous enough to try 30+ different builds/respecs of a Dark/Regen character that you were going through that process as an evolution to decide what "worked best" for you. Given all that you now know with your intimate knowledge of those powersets I suspect you would really only seriously play the last 2 or 3 latest/best builds you've ever come up with. For instance would you ever likely play with a build you created a few years ago without Inherent Fitness?|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
Uh, yeah, in the past 7 years I've gotten more than 30 significantly different and enjoyable/playable builds just with my Dark/Regen and fluctuating her power pools and epic pools....
so forgive me if I find 10 builds less than daunting save in terms of expense |
Although your idea sounds good "on paper" in practical terms I really doubt anyone would seriously/regularly use more than maybe 3 or 4 builds tops. I'm not strictly against this idea, but I do think allowing for 10 builds seems far less useful than it might first appear.
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If I'm not mistaken, people usually suggest heading to the Test Server to 'test' out various alterations to builds.
Don't I know you???
I'm a huge proponent of dual builds, and somewhat of triple builds. (See guides.) That said, I can't see ten builds being realistic in the slightest. If the Incarnate powers couldn't be unslotted and were build-specific, then I could, sure - but they're individually unslottable and swappable.
Heck, looking at the - frankly silly - "list," I have two words for you to pile all that into one or two builds - "Temp powers." Medicine pool? I'd assume to heal other, especially on a dark (has an attack that heals)/regen (ton of heals.) There's a temp power and/or day job - no need to even look at the Medicine pool. You CERTAINLY don't need it for yourself. Presence is... well, flat out silly. (Touch of Fear.) And so forth.
I can see *maybe* fitting one more build in. From the comments I get about my dual (and triple) builds guide, though, people are finding it hard to use *three* builds. Two builds (outside of "test respecs," basically) aren't used that much - if I said 30% of the game uses them, I'd probably be guessing way too high. Three builds seems really, really rare. (If PVP were more active, I'd probably use it on buffers - solo, team, PVP.) Four... I can't even think of what I'd do with.
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no, I change her whenever I get a respec just for the heck of it...I'd really like to have the majority of her builds available to me still|
Originally Posted by Lothic
My guess is even though you've been adventurous enough to try 30+ different builds/respecs of a Dark/Regen character that you were going through that process as an evolution to decide what "worked best" for you. Given all that you now know with your intimate knowledge of those powersets I suspect you would really only seriously play the last 2 or 3 latest/best builds you've ever come up with. For instance would you ever likely play with a build you created a few years ago without Inherent Fitness?
Although your idea sounds good "on paper" in practical terms I really doubt anyone would seriously/regularly use more than maybe 3 or 4 builds tops. I'm not strictly against this idea, but I do think allowing for 10 builds seems far less useful than it might first appear. |
right now the only builds I have active are the combat medic and the "never running out of endurance" version that has three chance for +ends spread between stamina, quick recovery and physical perfection and has an end/sec of 4.5 - 5 and exists purely to deal with Dark Rings and Sappers.
so right now I have:
fighting/body and medic/(forget which epic if any)
will probably add presence/dark, fighting/presence, fighting/weapon or weapon/presence
but would love to have all four of those available
also, Teleport/presence, Teleport/dark, Teleport/body, presence/body, speed/fighting/dark
I would dearly love to be able to switch her build between each mission without having to spend a respec
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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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There's nothing wrong with liking all those combinations. But the "simple workaround" to not being able to have 10 builds on a single character is to make several Dark/Regens to spread all those build ideas out on.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
I would dearly love to be able to switch her build between each mission without having to spend a respec
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The Devs have already made it pretty clear they don't really want people to have a single character that can "do everything". This is why (for instance) they've told us we will likely never get the ability to respec powerset choices. They don't want people taking a level 50 character and turning it into -any- kind of powerset combo you want. I figure the same mindset applies for having more builds than the few we already have.
The idea of having something like a "PvE build" and a "PvP build" makes sense because the rules for how the powers work are actually different in those environments. But I really don't think the multiple build concept was ever intended to be a mechanism to allow a single character to have access to every power pool combination possible. You've pushed it to the limit - be thankful they even gave us the ability to have more than one build per character in the first place.
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actually have the same character as a dark/dark tank and will build a brute eventually|
Originally Posted by Lothic
There's nothing wrong with liking all those combinations. But the "simple workaround" to not being able to have 10 builds on a single character is to make several Dark/Regens to spread all those build ideas out on.
The Devs have already made it pretty clear they don't really want people to have a single character that can "do everything". This is why (for instance) they've told us we will likely never get the ability to respec powerset choices. They don't want people taking a level 50 character and turning it into -any- kind of powerset combo you want. I figure the same mindset applies for having more builds than the few we already have. The idea of having something like a "PvE build" and a "PvP build" makes sense because the rules for how the powers work are actually different in those environments. But I really don't think the multiple build concept was ever intended to be a mechanism to allow a single character to have access to every power pool combination possible. You've pushed it to the limit - be thankful they even gave us the ability to have more than one build per character in the first place. |
have another character that exists as a kat/inv scrapper, wp/db tank and trick/arch defender across different names....so I've done that option as well
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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Point of note: the official Position from Positron (say that 5 times fast) has changed on Power-Set-Respecs. In a recent Ustream Positron stated that the ability to respec power-sets and or archtypes has been brought up internally (I'm assuming by NCSoft looking for something else to sell) and research into the possibility has been taken.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The Devs have already made it pretty clear they don't really want people to have a single character that can "do everything". This is why (for instance) they've told us we will likely never get the ability to respec powerset choices. They don't want people taking a level 50 character and turning it into -any- kind of powerset combo you want. I figure the same mindset applies for having more builds than the few we already have.
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According to Positron a changing of Archtypes is Functionally impossible.
Power-Respecs are possible, but they still require a lot of work. Enough work that such a feature is not going to get worked on... and if it did get worked on... it would be a very expensive monetary pay-for option to cover the costs of implementing such a feature.
It still is a No to power-set and archtype respecs.
Part of the reason I think the developers have softened their view is that the level 50+ gameplay, the new incarnate gameplay, is made easier by players being able to gain attributes and abilities normally beholden to other archtypes. However, the incarnate content is built around the concepts of players having multiple Incarnate-Powers and swapping between those powers. For example, Keys Reactor places a focus on healing. If everybody on a 16-player raid has a Rebirth Incarnate power, it's fairly trivial to stagger rebirth bursts to cover teams working with each other.
As to the original posters idea: /unsigned
Here's another way to look at it: offering more builds, even those that can change patron / epic / pool powers at the drop of the hat, reduces the perception that players need to field more avatars.
Let me put this another way: It would give a F2P player less reasons to think about subscribing or buying character slots.
Well for what it's worth I wouldn't mind the ability to link a specific build to a specific costume slot. It might be cool for example to create a "PvP costume" and then when I switch to it I would automatically switch to my "PvP build" as well. Getting a feature like that is probably far more likely than getting 10 builds on one character at any rate. 
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About the only hangup right now that I'm aware of is that you have to go to a trainer to swap builds. Otherwise, yeah, /cc #$$change_build # would be viable.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Well for what it's worth I wouldn't mind the ability to link a specific build to a specific costume slot. It might be cool for example to create a "PvP costume" and then when I switch to it I would automatically switch to my "PvP build" as well. Getting a feature like that is probably far more likely than getting 10 builds on one character at any rate.
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I think the only reason we "need" to go to a trainer to switch builds is to prevent us from switching builds right in the middle of a fight. I could see how that could be a little unfair, especially in a PvP situation. But if they created a dedicated "change_build" command line command they could just put limits on it like "can't be used in PvP zones" and "can't be used more than once every 10 minutes" or whatever other controls they deemed necessary to make it balanced.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
About the only hangup right now that I'm aware of is that you have to go to a trainer to swap builds. Otherwise, yeah, /cc #$$change_build # would be viable.
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I am personally satisfied with the current three builds. I use two builds for some characters, either to cover two level ranges, or to have a toxic widow and psionic widow in one character. Another idea I came up with is to use a completely gimped third build to have a weak version (as an ordinary human being, cursed, crippled, young and inexperienced etc) of the character.
I'm open for letting those who really want more than three builds buy additional slots.
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If we can get up to 10 costumes (as seems possible with the upcoming store) then let us also get up to 10 builds
it's not as good as the ability to link character slots to draw from the same pool of missions in order to simulate one guy with different equipment sets, but it is more feasible
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