My elec/Earth rarely summons them while solo, they tend to be very counterintuitive to the surviveability that Static Field offers.
In group play it can often be a while before I realise they have faceplanted, nice to have, but I'd call them skippable.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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in my experience they are much weaker than fire imps and they are also just as squishy
so they bring minimal dmg and dont live very long because they have dmg auras which most baddies dont like lol
Solo, I only summon them if I have a defeat all mission. I'm an "objectives only" soloer and they just don't add value. If I find myself in a bit of a jam, I'll summon them as much to disperse aggro as anything.
On teams, I summon and, to paraphrase Ivan Drago from Rocky IV - "if they die, they die".
Having said all that, I don't think I'd ever skip them.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
I see a lot of hate for the gremlins from elec control set. Just how bad are they? I've always looked forward to the pets on whatever set I've played, but the opinion out there are.... strong.
I'm currently leveling up a elec/stone dom and wondered if they were so bad I might better use the powerslot on something else... like jolting chain?  Any input is appreciated. |
I was going to say, as long as you don't feed them after midnight...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
There's no reason you cannot have both the Pets AND Jolting chain.|
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
I see a lot of hate for the gremlins from elec control set. Just how bad are they? I've always looked forward to the pets on whatever set I've played, but the opinion out there are.... strong.
I'm currently leveling up a elec/stone dom and wondered if they were so bad I might better use the powerslot on something else... like jolting chain? Any input is appreciated. |
For reference, here's my own Elec / Stone dom build:
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...47F90F7D76EA83
Now, as to your specific question...
It really depends on what you do.
If you are running a tricked out IO build with Perma-Dom... you can very easily forget the gremlins unless you are going after a hardened target.
Would I skip them entirely?
No, I would not.
They provide quite a bit of functional mitigation, such as taking Alpha-Strikes, as well as the aforementioned aggro dispersion.
Well, here's my proposed IO'd build. I didn't take jolting chain as I figured I had enough knockabout and end drain without it. Just didn't know how bad the pets were gonna be with it.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Earth Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(5)
Level 1: Stone Spears -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 2: Stone Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), FrcFbk-Rechg%(11)
Level 4: Tremor -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg(33), FrcFbk-Rechg%(33)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(42), Efficacy-EndMod(43)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11)
Level 12: Static Field -- FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(13), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(13), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(15), FtnHyp-Sleep(15)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-EndRdx(17), RedFtn-Def(17), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(27), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(27)
Level 16: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(19), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21)
Level 20: Heavy Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(21), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(23), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), FrcFbk-Rechg%(25)
Level 22: Chain Fences -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(34), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(34), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(34), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(37), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(40)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CoPers-Acc/Rchg(A), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(46), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(48), CoPers-Conf(50), CoPers-Conf%(50)
Level 28: Seismic Smash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(31), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31)
Level 30: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A)
Level 32: Gremlins -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(45), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 35: Mud Pots -- Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), EndRdx-I(36), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Dmg(37), Armgdn-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Fissure -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg(39), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam(43), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Power Sink -- Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod(45), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(45), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Surge of Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 6% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 6% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 6% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 6% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 6% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 6% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 6% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 6% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 18.3% Defense(Smashing)
- 18.3% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 13.6% Defense(Energy)
- 13.6% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 13% Defense(Melee)
- 8.31% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 1.8% Max End
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 86.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 45% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 80.1 HP (7.88%) HitPoints
- MezResist(Immobilize) 10.5%
- 25.5% (0.42 End/sec) Recovery
- 42% (1.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 8.82% Resistance(Fire)
- 8.82% Resistance(Cold)
- 1.88% Resistance(Negative)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1384;677;1354;HEX;| |78DA6594596B135114C7EF2413D3A44993D87D6FD3D6A4D9DAD82AA25591B682D04| |0B55817D430A443331093309982BEF9E29355EB062A6E1FCAED1B14C1AA286E4FF1| |CCF9DF2C9281E437F77FCF9C6DCE9DCC8D259F10B74E0A25B058D02A95EC52E9BA5| |1D4AC92E9CA689B464EB88510E1BA985D2C152DB354482D17F49C651AB99A30DA30| |3955A9685B052BB5AC9956BEB60A9D29E675532F5AA9DA8D77B5447ED6CABABEE1E| |3DB155D2B1BC5CD406DB1A19B95BC51F6F3FAB4B199B768B77FB96CE4528D6099AD| |6C46AB58BA79B38F129DA2DFF7A09057D5293E388418168EB7C04786FA9EF1D45FB| |7136281A03AC533D21468AAB26A572ED4B38CB673C01AC37B9B5CA4C5733277CA50| |CECFEC756C0FF804C02E4C4D74B1DFAAC31517B6B4EF3FFCA49CDD4A1BC7759F576| |C697A0DB8C71EA67718B16D460FF9F3C09FE2E9663B6F17E317396A9705B45F6663| |DF05E022A3E312B0CE0891233F1CB9FC70140C001D8C3E2F63C007B4335E50D901D| |9B9000AF84D7143B21321747BFF3B00DDEEC29B78498F76CAFC3AD1E02E34B8070D| |EE4183FBD0B81FE4B61BE6AEEE1D0E3EFE0078083C624C3E66449E3014AAAA57E6D| |73BC0F9FD2147FD326E7F967D27AF3166AE32D257008DF18AD21C94710791E610D2| |1C429A23487304A58E60B09C6EFB1F71874F60A2FE52E051688E51396509C9A4E46| |B8A16966F217C94139818E7B42716B03AC6983C021C67BCF163DEEDA7A6E6583A70| |10380CCC3322870074749BE6352A4731DAABD809C7EC7544C4261977C820CE87A0E| |A8CDFE7671298BA0446317997A152B129E92885D199C10CCE0419BBF45D9995DD98| |C5940CA94D47AE4A970837946AAC6577B64549B728732DCA7C8BB2D2A2ACAAF5832| |E14563CC1FA59AEEE79695791BB494EFD6BB3B4CE057E6996A26CF5AD2129CA184B| |69E01FA063E35C| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
I see the hate, also. Here's my thoughts.
I have a purpled Elec/Kin troller. I use it sometimes to farm with. Very pretty and fun toon. I mostly llike it to do TFs and GM. I can easily drain the complete endurance of a GM before its health moves 1/8 of the bar. My gremlins hardly ever die. Maybe because i have a good heal?
I just leveled a Fire Dom with 160% rech. and Flashfire is up every mob to stun them and Cinders up every other mob to hold them. I just done 11 tips over two days. I have to call my Imps every couple mobs because i have no heal. AND Imps like to run around sometimes.
My final thoughts are that if you don't have a heal, no pet will last forever. As far as actual damage, i dunno. I really never just sit back and watch the damage output of my pets. Im too busy playing. lol. But i'd guess that 3 pets will out perform 2 or 1 anyday of the week.
Quote:
Jolting chain is not knockback.|
Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
Well, here's my proposed IO'd build. I didn't take jolting chain as I figured I had enough knockabout and end drain without it. Just didn't know how bad the pets were gonna be with it.
|
It's knockdown.
It keeps mobs SITTING in your end-drain aoe.
As to your build.
No. Just. No.
Mud pots? Really?
Okay, when the developers were testing Electrical Control the Conductive Aura power would awaken enemies that had been slept by static field. Conductive Aura was changed to it's present state where it can be used without waking enemies up.
Mud Pots basically renders one of your most powerful combinations, Conductive Aura + Statif Field, useless.
Then there is Tremor. Same thing, it's a knockback power. It renders two of your major powers, Static Field and Conductive aura... pointless.
Then there is boxing, tough, and weave.
Drop them.
You aren't even getting close to a soft cap, so the little bit of defense from Weave is doing you nothing, and the resist from Tough isn't very helpful either.
Dump those powers and pick the stealth pool with Stealth and Grant Invisibility. . these give you two places to shove LoTG procs and opens up another slot for a more useful power.
Now, as far as your epic powers go... I normally don't pick on people for their epic power picks.
With Elec / Stone... you do have to realize some facts of the powers. Power for power, stone and electric don't really mix. Stone is heavy on the knockback capability and the melee damage. Electric is really light on hard-controls... so the two sets are often at odds with each other.
With the epic powers you really want to invest in a set that expands your capability to attack multiple opponents at once. When you get to higher levels and you have Synaptic Overload, you'll be better equipped to short out a mob for some AOE goodness. Personally I went with the Ice Mastery power as it gave me a Debuff in Sleet, a mass AOE attack in Ice Storm, a panic button / recovery endurance option in Hibernate, and Decent Defense.
Mu Mastery... doesn't give you anything of that.
Power Sink really isn't going to give you anything that you don't already have.
While Charged Armor and Power Surge together do give you a bit of meaningful resistance... the problem is this: If you are getting hit as a dominator... you are not Dominating. The point of a dominator is to control your opponents.
Now, I'm not saying the build I made is the only way to go...
I am saying that the build you have proposed probably isn't is NOT going to work given how the powers interact with each other.
Quote:
While I appreciate your input and no doubt you've played the combo much more than my paltry 24 levels, just a few points to cosider about my build. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
Jolting chain is not knockback.
It's knockdown. It keeps mobs SITTING in your end-drain aoe. As to your build. No. Just. No. Mud pots? Really? Okay, when the developers were testing Electrical Control the Conductive Aura power would awaken enemies that had been slept by static field. Conductive Aura was changed to it's present state where it can be used without waking enemies up. Mud Pots basically renders one of your most powerful combinations, Conductive Aura + Statif Field, useless. Then there is Tremor. Same thing, it's a knockback power. It renders two of your major powers, Static Field and Conductive aura... pointless. Then there is boxing, tough, and weave. Drop them. You aren't even getting close to a soft cap, so the little bit of defense from Weave is doing you nothing, and the resist from Tough isn't very helpful either. Dump those powers and pick the stealth pool with Stealth and Grant Invisibility. . these give you two places to shove LoTG procs and opens up another slot for a more useful power. Now, as far as your epic powers go... I normally don't pick on people for their epic power picks. With Elec / Stone... you do have to realize some facts of the powers. Power for power, stone and electric don't really mix. Stone is heavy on the knockback capability and the melee damage. Electric is really light on hard-controls... so the two sets are often at odds with each other. With the epic powers you really want to invest in a set that expands your capability to attack multiple opponents at once. When you get to higher levels and you have Synaptic Overload, you'll be better equipped to short out a mob for some AOE goodness. Personally I went with the Ice Mastery power as it gave me a Debuff in Sleet, a mass AOE attack in Ice Storm, a panic button / recovery endurance option in Hibernate, and Decent Defense. Mu Mastery... doesn't give you anything of that. Power Sink really isn't going to give you anything that you don't already have. While Charged Armor and Power Surge together do give you a bit of meaningful resistance... the problem is this: If you are getting hit as a dominator... you are not Dominating. The point of a dominator is to control your opponents. Now, I'm not saying the build I made is the only way to go... I am saying that the build you have proposed probably isn't is NOT going to work given how the powers interact with each other. |
Mud pots comes into play on larger spawns and those that take a while to whittle down. The idea is to go into the spawn and drain, then pots goes on while i'm killin the group. Dunno how it'll work, but I'll give it a go and see. I can see your point and it might have to go before my final final build.
Tremor is a knockdown power. Dunno if it used to be kb, but as long as you aren't killing blues or below, it's kdown. I have it now and it's very effective as it does the damage and I can combo my chain fenses right after. The mobs are asleep before they stand up again. I use it all the time.
Boxing, Tough and Weave are there mostly for the weave. With the recharges I have going, I should be able to have Pboost up about half the time. With the defenses I've accumulated, that gives 40.9% S/L and 36.2% E/N with some decent numbers on melee defense to boot. Not soft capped, but nothing to sneeze at either. And as you said, I should be Dominating so that should be good enough. That being said, I almost put in med pool in two of those slots as you are right, tough isn't adding much to this build and boxing is... well, boxing.
As to Elec/Stone not working together well, realize that all of the kb powers in them are 0.67. This means that as long as you are not fighting below your level, they kdown. This provides great mitigation while you are draining their Endo. To my experience, this is a very nice synergy.
Now to the tricky part of my build, Elec mastery. I went this way because of the extra end drain. I wanted it for GMs and dare I say it, AVs. Plus with the mud pots and overall end usage going, I didn't want to get to the point I was to tired to smash. Add to it, surge of power doesn't have the hp crash (at least mids doesn't list it) and can be handled easily with a blue/power sink.
The other huge advantage of this build is that I was able to get Force Feedback: chance for +rech into it in several places. Based upon my experiences with my rad/nrg fender, I can tell you that this is a significant means of rech as long as you keep smashing.
Overall, am I sold on this as a final build? No. But there are several different variants that can be done in addition to the standard ice Mastery build (yes, I know it's awesome but other things can be done). For instance, I worked out a high rech Psi Mastery version that adds 40.6% S/L and 45.9% E/N before Pboost.
Quote:
Tremor is Knockdown, not Knockback. As such it's not terrible in terms of interfering with your sleep and your pbaoe. Earth Assault is a knockdown set, not a kb one. It's a pretty good fit for Elec (one of the top 3 IMO : Psi, Ice and Earth are all decent choices, I love my Elec/NRG but that DOES have knockback and takes some getting used to ).|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Jolting chain is not knockback.
It's knockdown. It keeps mobs SITTING in your end-drain aoe. As to your build. No. Just. No. Mud pots? Really? Okay, when the developers were testing Electrical Control the Conductive Aura power would awaken enemies that had been slept by static field. Conductive Aura was changed to it's present state where it can be used without waking enemies up. Mud Pots basically renders one of your most powerful combinations, Conductive Aura + Statif Field, useless. Then there is Tremor. Same thing, it's a knockback power. It renders two of your major powers, Static Field and Conductive aura... pointless. Then there is boxing, tough, and weave. Drop them. You aren't even getting close to a soft cap, so the little bit of defense from Weave is doing you nothing, and the resist from Tough isn't very helpful either. Dump those powers and pick the stealth pool with Stealth and Grant Invisibility. . these give you two places to shove LoTG procs and opens up another slot for a more useful power. Now, as far as your epic powers go... I normally don't pick on people for their epic power picks. With Elec / Stone... you do have to realize some facts of the powers. Power for power, stone and electric don't really mix. Stone is heavy on the knockback capability and the melee damage. Electric is really light on hard-controls... so the two sets are often at odds with each other. With the epic powers you really want to invest in a set that expands your capability to attack multiple opponents at once. When you get to higher levels and you have Synaptic Overload, you'll be better equipped to short out a mob for some AOE goodness. Personally I went with the Ice Mastery power as it gave me a Debuff in Sleet, a mass AOE attack in Ice Storm, a panic button / recovery endurance option in Hibernate, and Decent Defense. Mu Mastery... doesn't give you anything of that. Power Sink really isn't going to give you anything that you don't already have. While Charged Armor and Power Surge together do give you a bit of meaningful resistance... the problem is this: If you are getting hit as a dominator... you are not Dominating. The point of a dominator is to control your opponents. Now, I'm not saying the build I made is the only way to go... I am saying that the build you have proposed probably isn't is NOT going to work given how the powers interact with each other. |
Mind you the animation of Tremor is awfully long and the damage is pants. It sits firmly at the bottom of PBAOE attacks overall IMO. Not a terrible choice, it's ok when swarmed with enemies, but nothing spectular.
Power Sink is going to bring some front-ended major drainage to the build, especially when combined with Power Boost, and it does -Recovery as well. It'll go fairly well with Elec Control and Earth. The God Mode is nice to have, but not essential. Domination works well to counter the crash too mind. Ball Lightning is superb.
The Ice APP is fantastic but the DoTs are going to unsleep things on you and render Static Field useless, the question becomes do you rely on Static Field that much at that stage? Synaptic Overload is my staple control now.
Mace isn't a bad choice at all for Poisonous Ray and the Def shield, but the AOE does knockback, rendering it highly annoying.
My own preference was for Mu too, there's no real downsides to it (unlike Ice where the awesome is tempered with interfering with Static Field), it adds even more Blue Drainage, Domis are well built to recover from the God Mode crash if you time things right and Ball Lightning is a great power. If Soul Drain from Soul worked as well as the Blue Side versions (a 120 recharge instead of the 240 Red Side gets) I'd be all over that though.
As to the OPs question my Elec/NRG Domi loves his Gremlins. I've never really worried about them waking things up and they are stupidheads occasionally but in general the extra soft control they do via knockdowns is nice, their damage is ok and they act as decent enough Aggro soaks.
I see a lot of hate for the gremlins from elec control set. Just how bad are they? I've always looked forward to the pets on whatever set I've played, but the opinion out there are.... strong.
I'm currently leveling up a elec/stone dom and wondered if they were so bad I might better use the powerslot on something else... like jolting chain?
Any input is appreciated.