best void judgement?
By
Biowraith,
Posted on: 2011-07-21 13:00 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I think that pretty much answers your question.|
Originally Posted by Supermax
So between the core and radial tier 4's, is there a common agreement on which is better? The core essentially has a 20% chance damage proc, while the radial has an increased number of targets and a damage debuff.
Is the extra possible damage from core worth losing out on the extra targets? And what are the exact numbers on the targets? Mids doesn't seem to show them. The damage debuff isn't really relevant to me. |
But something else to consider, do you typically find yourself fighting more than the agro cap? If your answer is no, then I'd recommend Core.
I can't check at the moment, but I believe the target caps were Core-24 Radial-32.
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Radial is leaps and bounds superior to Core as far as I am concerned. The 20% chance for a critical runs a procedure for an additional 160 damage or so. That amounts to 32 extra damage.
No sane comparison will value 32 points of extra damage over a 50% damage debuff for 30 seconds. One is an extremely useful debuff that is particularly potent against AVs. The other applies socketed Brawl level damage...
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Averaging out damage on Judgement powers probably isn't the best way to look at it. Rather than look at it as "32 extra points of damage", look at it "a 20% chance to one-shot LTs as well as minions". Now, granted, if all you're fighting is AVs, that might be different...but I have yet to run into any all-AV missions outside of the AE.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
No sane comparison will value 32 points of extra damage over a 50% damage debuff for 30 seconds. One is an extremely useful debuff that is particularly potent against AVs. The other applies socketed Brawl level damage...
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Thanks for the replies.
Is the damage debuff resistable by AV's? I'm pretty sure it's not, but wanted to confirm.
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So if you are fighting a spawn that has 5 LTs, one of them on average will die. I would still take 5 severely weakened LTs over 4 survivors with full damage.
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Averaging out damage on Judgement powers probably isn't the best way to look at it. Rather than look at it as "32 extra points of damage", look at it "a 20% chance to one-shot LTs as well as minions". Now, granted, if all you're fighting is AVs, that might be different...but I have yet to run into any all-AV missions outside of the AE.
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Yes, but not in the normal fashion. Damage debuffs are resisted by damage resistance, rather than special AV debuff resistance. So that 50% debuff will become a 45% debuff against an enemy with 10% resistance to the damage type in question.
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Originally Posted by Supermax
Is the damage debuff resistable by AV's? I'm pretty sure it's not, but wanted to confirm.
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Is the dmg type just determined by the type of attack applying the debuff then?
Also Radial > Core, imho. If I'm on a build that doesn't want the dmg debuff, I'm probably taking Pyronic and not Void anyway. (Pyrolic? Whatever Big Fat Fireball of Fire).
Aside from the target caps, isn't there a difference in the AoE size as well, or am I imagining that?
Either way, more targets feels > 20% dmg proc for the way I tend to play. But I'm one of those melee jerks who's always surrounding themselves with targets. 
Needs Moar Targets.
Aight, sounds like more people are leaning towards the radial. Thanks again guys.
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Wait, if that's the case why does it only show a global damage bonus? When I ran Lambda as a Bane I used surveillance on Marauder and checked his numbers (to see exactly what [Berzerker Rage] [sic] did), and whenever he was hit by Void Radial it showed his Damage bonus go from +115% to +65% (50% bonus at all times, 65% from [Berzerker Rage], -50% from Void Radial). If it's resistible like you say, why don't we get an entire tab like Defense and Resistance?
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Yes, but not in the normal fashion. Damage debuffs are resisted by damage resistance, rather than special AV debuff resistance. So that 50% debuff will become a 45% debuff against an enemy with 10% resistance to the damage type in question.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Were you looking at his total damage number, or the itemized list? The reason I ask is the itemized listing of buffs/debuffs in power attributes is their unresisted value, while the final number accounts for resistances. For example, here are two examples of def debuffs against my WP Tanker:|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Wait, if that's the case why does it only show a global damage bonus? When I ran Lambda as a Bane I used surveillance on Marauder and checked his numbers (to see exactly what [Berzerker Rage] [sic] did), and whenever he was hit by Void Radial it showed his Damage bonus go from +115% to +65% (50% bonus at all times, 65% from [Berzerker Rage], -50% from Void Radial). If it's resistible like you say, why don't we get an entire tab like Defense and Resistance?
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Example 1
Example 2
Note the values under "Base Defense".
[edit: Ack, I didn't read your post clearly enough. Why isn't damage broken out? Good question.]
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The dmg type is determined by the type of attack being debuffed (to clarify: the vast majority of -dmg is to all types, but then the afflicted's attacks resist that based on their damage type compared with the afflicted's damage resistances).|
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown
Is the dmg type just determined by the type of attack applying the debuff then?
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So, if the AV (or any other mob) has 10% resist to smashing damage and no other resists, and that same AV has two attacks, one doing smashing damage and the other doing fire damage, the first attack resists the -dmg debuff while the second attack is debuffed fully.
No idea how/why it's displayed in the combat attributes - how does something like Infrigidate's debuff display? It's specifically only a fire -dmg debuff. Possibly the devs just never thought to break it down since almost all -dmg is to all types, and I'm not sure whether the interaction with damage resist was originally intended or just a side effect of how the game views damage, -damage, and resistances.
In any case it's relatively easy to test in AE using multiple custom mobs all with the same attacks but with varying levels of resist to specific damage types - look at the actual damage being dealt rather than what's in combat attributes.
Gotcha, er I think. 
Or at least close enough to getting it for my purposes, thanks.
So between the core and radial tier 4's, is there a common agreement on which is better? The core essentially has a 20% chance damage proc, while the radial has an increased number of targets and a damage debuff.
Is the extra possible damage from core worth losing out on the extra targets? And what are the exact numbers on the targets? Mids doesn't seem to show them. The damage debuff isn't really relevant to me.