New Def/Corr/Controllers?

^^^
This.

Although I must say it's easier on large teams with lots of buffs applied to characters than keeping track in the strings of icons.

You'd need to get both Thermal and Fire Blast ported to defenders in that case

However, as we see with ice shields, it's entirely possible to flag powers to be unaffected by Power Boost. Personally, I'm glad they didn't. People complain that FF is lacking and should be king of defense buffs. Well, now it is.

this

This

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OMG THIS

By the way, PBU does not boost the +def from Cold's shields (due to it having +res as well). Unless something has changed in recent months.

Wasn't sure by your post if you're planning on taking it, but I felt it best to warn ya'.

...As long as you take the right ancillary pool. That's not sound balance.

Or the radial branch from Clarion Destiny which offers +special.

While I would leave Power Boost's effect on FF alone, I will admit it's a bit problematic. I think PB should affect the shields as it always has, but I could concede that a smaller portion made PB-able (or offer a lower +defense buff in PB itself). However, I don't think Power Boost is the root of the problem.

Really, I feel the greater offender hear is the AoE buffs. Prior to this change, PB'ed shields will limited by the recharge on PB. If you were attentive and built your character for recharge it was possible to keep the team under such strong buffs. However, it was tedious. It meant bubbling in shifts, usually of two teammates at a time. It was also impossible to keep 24 players always under the effects of PB'ed FF's. To me that's a more offensive balance problem than an 8-man team being softcapped even though I enjoy the new AoE ally shields.

Frankly, there should be some balancing done to these powers. They're substantially better than before due in one part to the buff but also to the new teaming environment that excedes 8 allies. One proposition is to adjust the endurance cost in a fashion similar to the way Repulsion Field works, for each target affected it cost an additional tick of endurance. Shielding an entire league should probably tank your endurance.

Or we could, just, yanno, not go back and make the game frustrating to play as a buffer again.

If power boosted force fields aren't a problem they aren't a problem, and if they are a problem they are a problem, the size of the team is irrelevant because the league content has egregiously superior chance to hit to normal content. If the developers deem that it is a problem, that specific power interaction can be adjusted without making it suck to play force fields again.

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

Allow me to ask this: should Fortitude have been made an AoE buff as well? If the size of the team does not matter, one can infer that the number of allies buffed does not matter. Why then is Fortitude still limited by its recharge?

Of course, I don't feel Fortitude should be made an AoE, but it illustrates the point, I believe, that the strength of a buff and the number of allies it can affect are both relevant matters. It was a tedious matter to buff an entire league, but as I said, it was impossible to buff them with the superior effects of Power Boost. PB'ed ally shields came with an opportunity cost, deciding one teammate needed the extra def meant another would miss out.

Note the AoE buff change doesn't offer only convenience, it also offers a substantial endurance discount with each additional ally buffed. You're now using half the endurance to buff two allies, a third for three, etc. Those endurance costs should be changed and a cost per ally affected seems to be the most equitable way to do it. Even a cost of 2.5 endurance per ally would be a discount from the previous cost of buffing a team of 8, but enough to drain most of the blue bar when buffing a league. That's all. We can keep the one (or two) click buffing, reducing the tedium of buffing, without giving away buffs for free.

The buffs they changed (well, other than Increase Density, which just needed a buff anyway) were all buffs that were meant to be kept on the whole team all the time. Fortitude is not such a buff.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

I asked this in opposition to Draeth's statement that the team size, and therefore number of allies, affected was irrelevant. I don't feel that it is irrelevant and Fortitude is a prime example of that. Stronger buffs should have limitations to how many allies they may affect. Or perhaps, we could look at the Leadership pool, deemed powerful enough that they should only affect you and 7 teammates.

And while, yes, ally shields were meant to be maintainable on teams at all times, they were not reasonably maintainable on leagues (including pets). That's the trouble here. Team balance hasn't been dramatically altered, but league play has.

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

To be fair, attacks and controls have target caps, and heals (outside of Rebirth, obviously) do not affect the entire league (AFAIK).

I do think altering Power Boost (and Power Build Up) and/or its interaction with shields is a much more efficient way of dealing with the problem, however.

All area Heals affect any friendly target in the radius, team status not considered, up to a maximum of 255 units.

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

You stated something which held implications that you did not consider. That is why I asked a question that would allow you to clarify your position.

The number of targets affected by any power is a balance concern. I concede Fortitude is a poor illustration and point once again to the Leadership pool, powers limited to teammates only due to their strength when stacking. While the difference between the softcap and trial softcap make a significant difference for most defensive builds, it is not such a difference that we can dismiss cumulative defense buffs. In fact, a Force Field defender with Power Boost, Clarion Radial Epiphany, and Nerve Core Paragon will very easily hit the 59% defense necessary to softcap in trials without the use of IO's. That egregious chance to hit can be neutered by a single individual.

I'm with you on this. I don't think the synergy between Force Fields and Power Boost should be removed as I stated in my initial post and second post where I state "PB should affect the shields as it always has." I almost raised the same issue in respond to IantheM1's post. However, I do feel some balance needs to be struck and the devs sometimes require nudging to see where things can be improved.

In regards to buffing there have always been three costs: casting time, endurance, and opportunity cost. This change has severely reduced casting time and reduced endurance cost. Opportunity cost for PB'ed shields was only an issue before IO's made it possible to PB shield the entire team, and now that has been removed. While it has removed the tedium of buffing, it has increased the mindlessness of it. Little thought needs to be spent on when, who, or how to buff and to me that makes the gameplay a little less interesting.

There needs to be, in my opinion, something there to make the player consider how they're buffing. Considering endurance is a penalty that can be quickly recovered with a few inspirations, it's a mild step back. In fact, it would put endurance usage on a standard team back where it used to be. As is stands now there are already some discussing the irrelevance of endurance slotting in the ally shields here.

Mastermind upgrades are an excellent example of the pendulum swinging back and forth. At one time, all pets had to be upgraded individually. It was tedious; as a result it was changed to become a one-click upgrade for all pets. The endurance cost was increased with this in mind. Perhaps, it was adjusted too far. The pendulum swings back and the endurance cost of upgrades has been lowered.

I feel the developers have overshot with their implementation of AoE buffs, something they're generally cautious to avoid. However, I fully anticipate that some change will come down the line.

It was the king of defense before the change. It's still the red headed step child of end game content for support sets.

That;s only because you need Barrier to back it up in order to deal with the Trial "spft-cap" on Defense. Thermal & Sonic don't need that, resists are much better in that sense, theres no RNG involved. (And we all know the RNG is an evil vindictive bastage!)

I really think this will help me push my Sonic/Sonic Corr up to 50 for Trial content- they can always uses his shields.

Not to make it unaffected by Power Boost specifically. The Ice Shield powers are tagged to not be affected by any buff or debuff (so Weaken and Benumb doesn't change them, either), as is the standard for any power that buffs or debuffs Resistance (this is because Resist and Damage are the same modifier, so if they didn't flag it, then your damage buffs would act as resistance enhancement in that power). The imbalance here, as noted previously in the Defenders Issues thread, is that this means that none of the shield powers are affected by Power Boost except for Force Field, because they all have some kind of resist component, somewhere.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Devs give Force Field a "buff" in the form of adding some extra resistance to the shields (S/L on the first, F/C/E/N on the second) and flag them as being unaffected by buffs and debuffs.

It didn't seem like that when I raided on my Empath, but I'll admit it's been a while. I know for a fact that team buffs like Mind Link are definitely not league-wide though.

It does? Interesting!

Well, I already have both Barrier and Rebirth started up on my forcefielder, might as well get Clarion, too.

Actually, Deflection Shield already has a 40% resistance buff against toxic damage. Insulation Shield also has resistance to endurance drain, though I'm not sure that mechanic falls in line with how resistance/damage works. Scorpion Shield also has toxic resist and, if I recall correctly, is affected by Power Boost. Again, I don't know the mechanical reason that toxic is exempted from the PB exclusion.

At any rate, considering this issue a bit more, I ponder if the following was possible: insulation/deflection shields casting two effects, a PB-able one on the target alone and a nearly identical but un-PB-able AoE centered on the target. This thought was spurred by Increased Density granting mez protection only to the target but resistance to allies in the area. This would allow FF to retain the advantage of having Power Boost for select targets.

The reason there is that they flagged the Toxic Resist effect to ignore both buffs and enhancements. The Devs can either flag a power to ignore buffs (in which case enhancements still work), or they can flag an effect of a power to ignore both. So while they could change the Cold Shields to be buffable with Power Boost, you'd no longer be able to enhance the resistance portion.

And the Sonic and Thermal shields would still be out on a limb.

As it should be. Cold Domination is already a strong performer. If the shields were PB-able that would really drive a nail into FF's coffin from a min-maxer standpoint.

Allow my to clarify my response to this:

If a change were to be made to Force Fields I would hope that it retains the ability to Power Boost its ally shields. I don't wish to see the same treatment given to other shielding sets.

However, I do feel the ability to give 24 allies Power Boosted shields with a nominal endurance cost is overpowered. My suggestions have been directed at correcting this corner case.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.