City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

What's the dope on SS/SD?

Airhammer

By Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-06-27 16:53 in Brutes

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
Sure that build is nice but it costs about 8 bil more than my character and is far out of my reach.

58.1% Vs 41.5% is the difference between 41.9% incoming damage and 54.1125% (factored in AAO) incoming damage for just under 25% difference (over 25% for ranged attacks).
I guess it all depends on perspective, I have just finished rerolling my Dark Brute into a Tank because he was too easily slaughtered, considering he was 25% more resilient than your shield Brute, I expect that Brute is even more likely to be lying on the floor.
A 55% damage bonus means nothing to a corpse.
You died easily on a /DA Brute that was softcapped to S/L/E/N? Something tells me you aren't very good.

[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
I guess it all depends on perspective, I have just finished rerolling my Dark Brute into a Tank because he was too easily slaughtered, considering he was 25% more resilient than your shield Brute, I expect that Brute is even more likely to be lying on the floor.
A 55% damage bonus means nothing to a corpse.

Player problem.
Didn't really bother looking at his build.... but I guess I see it now

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Darkest Night is -21% damage, with AAO that is a total of -28.5% damage from all enemies within AAO's radius, and -21% within Darkest Night's massive 25 foot radius.

OWTS boosts SM/L RES to 63.5% - and the character is also incarnate softcapped with Darkest Night running.

However I only really use OWTS when I have Marauder's aggro on Lambda.





Player problem.




My DM/SD brute can solo an entire half of the lambda split phase with zero deaths, and has solod the ITF pre incarnates.



Just because YOU end up on the floor with your DA Brute, does not mean that others would as well.
Firstly, when you have to use Patron Powers available t all Brutes as examples of why a secondary powerset is good, obviously you are stretching to find reasons.
Secondly, I don't know you may be the god of all players you may not, regardless of your divine abilities they have no reflection on how good a powerset is. As the maths have proven, a Shield Brute takes approx 25% more damage than a DA Brute. That is fact. The Shield Brute doesn't have the extra defensive benefits that a DA Brute stacks on top of that - heals, -to hit auras and a permanent mez effect to all those in melee.

You have offered nothing to suggest otherwise beyond your opinion and that fact that you are lord of all CoX.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
Sure that build is nice but it costs about 8 bil more than my character and is far out of my reach.

I guess it all depends on perspective, I have just finished rerolling my Dark Brute into a Tank because he was too easily slaughtered, considering he was 25% more resilient than your shield Brute, I expect that Brute is even more likely to be lying on the floor.
A 55% damage bonus means nothing to a corpse.
I didn't realize cost was a factor and you never gave the hint it was based on what you could afford. I'll just shake my head at the idea of a IOed out /dark brute being too easily slaughtered. A 55% damage bonus means things die faster. Since things die faster, you have to deal with less incoming damage, which in turn makes you more durable.

 

Posted

The most likely reason a S/L/E/N softcapped DA is going to die would be significant defense debuffs.

Shield caps DDR.

You do the math...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
Sure that build is nice but it costs about 8 bil more than my character and is far out of my reach.

58.1% Vs 41.5% is the difference between 41.9% incoming damage and 54.1125% (factored in AAO) incoming damage for just under 25% difference (over 25% for ranged attacks).
I guess it all depends on perspective, I have just finished rerolling my Dark Brute into a Tank because he was too easily slaughtered, considering he was 25% more resilient than your shield Brute, I expect that Brute is even more likely to be lying on the floor.
A 55% damage bonus means nothing to a corpse.
This math is off. It doesn't factor in defense. I'm not even sure which builds you got those resistance numbers from.

To keep it simple, assume a mob has 50% base to-hit against our 45% defense and has no accuracy bonuses.

The 58.1% resistance build takes an average of 2.095% of the incoming damage. The 41.5% resistance build (guessing that is Shield Defense) takes an average of 2.705% of the incoming damage. Yes, the SD build is taking almost 30% more damage, but does it really matter with that low of incoming damage? People's accomplishments with SD builds have proven that it doesn't matter. When was the last time you saw a post about a Dark Armor or Invuln user soloing ITF?

 

Posted

Invuln can be really tough late game if built right. Credit to BassAckwarsd (DM/Inv godly build) and Iggy for help with this one.

Soft-cap with 1 foe in range of Invinc to S/L/E/N. Running ST chain of 193-195 dps pre incarnate abilities: Incin - Gloom - Cremate - FS [repeat]

Can take a Nova Fist to the face from BABS in Lambda and keep standing.

Solid example of late-game Invuln, though SD is way way easier to soft-cap and gets many more cool tools (more DDR, more +Dmg).


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Mr. Flames: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Zinger-Dam%(43)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Cremate -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Zinger-Dam%(45)
Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(5), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(7), Dct'dW-Heal(9), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Incinerate -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dam%(11), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(15), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Zinger-Dam%(21)
Level 10: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(A), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(13), GSFC-ToHit(13), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(31), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GSFC-Build%(37)
Level 12: Stimulant -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(19), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(21), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29)
Level 20: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 24: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31)
Level 26: Fire Sword Circle -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Dmg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(34), C'ngBlow-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 28: Invincibility -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(39)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(34)
Level 32: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(40), Numna-Heal(40)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Unstoppable -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(48), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(45), Ragnrk-Dmg(46), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Resist Elements -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(36)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(25)



Code: 
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1436;703;1406;HEX;|
|78DA65935B6F124114C767606985160BE5D61BA5F40214E8026DD5C7265A49AA5DA|
|5D65B7C214847D864BB10168C7DF333E8834F4D8CF1FA25BCEB87D04FE043ABDF00|
|CF9E336D497603FB9BF9EF39FF396776567BB239CAD8D30DC647AE1835CBAA5EEEF|
|4BAC2A3D51A7ADDA775D4B9B251DB17D630632C868FAA9A308450CBBAE81CD0384E|
|FAA678244C4BA85BE6E39E618A4EEDA16EE8DD83E096D9141D6176D59381BFD26A1|
|9AA26F6F4BA6E0A9A95F546B3AB9B8D519C6D8B5A1B266327933DD1B19A7A3B76B5|
|ADD7555A6DB7D533AA5ACDEA421913505C16FE01CEE4D5F7B00A609E057610E95B8|
|8E55D44760F506259CB65E3A39D80997D379B87419AB966090944298908721906EE|
|9CDC87C86F9C1699A24552E49E27F74F30714B77B7ED1E670AB92BE4BE9C44F1334|
|478C85DF154B89D3A741D71EE264143F86E2042701F96C50CA770255F0E713E4358|
|4604B288B05D0C140A595E99E57D834F46DF115E2366DF2316DF123E90080B8D501|
|61B99C6E638487E29F9FB70B1AF301E937D8E5183E3B499E1813ED32C0A99418A73|
|0523D84B348C980920DC1010924621729820BF29725821BF6F1011A13816C963550|
|AA4C6A477EC124071B319C959B916DC27E50E4C1EBBEC9D9FFB433822ECA355D244|
|A45A88EF709FE61C6B9A968649C905324E1D427A8805A184B82C217EB23492B1244|
|52620244125B812B7514AEF10EE207ED8C7487ACC53CE026DD1226DD14F78B42477|
|7F69D56D4B75B867645F9912BEB66C015128120EB193C24B44E9154240564E1EBAD|
|C058CCBAF13D6102BAB848B881854AE5238577FA154FA8DF8025A51BE8C620C0FF4|
|8C72FA31C2CF3E22DB0EA5A29C7E528CA352B66378D956FA3B3E8CC4F1BD81F1FD8|
|1F18381B137009F9A1C1F81CEF9A0F3B143F97BA6707E97F6F91A9EAD7F674F5CFC|
|0576187D8698788E283A5AC93A9492435977286B0E652364FB5313FF0141FBEF0A|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Invuln can be really tough late game if built right.
No one is doubting Invuln. We are just repeatedly proving to Giant2005 that Shield isn't terrible like keeps saying and he can't seem to understand.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTractor View Post
No one is doubting Invuln. We are just repeatedly proving to Giant2005 that Shield isn't terrible like keeps saying and he can't seem to understand.
Dude shield is 100% awesomesauce.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
Firstly, when you have to use Patron Powers available t all Brutes as examples of why a secondary powerset is good, obviously you are stretching to find reasons.
I'm not stretching.

Your build wasn't even able to fit in any of the best epics for adding more attacks to a Brute build - chiefly Soul & Mu.

Your build has Laser Beam eyes, under slotted, and your epic is primarily focused on end issues and slot mules.

My epic is fully functional and adds to the build's ST DPS, AoE capabilties and survivability.



Your build lacks ST attacks with good accuracy, it lacks AoE.


Even before Darkest Night - my build is pushing 71.4% Resistance to SM/L with OWTS running, which also means it will be sitting 2594 HP vs your builds 1768 HP.

That's right, when push comes to shove my build will have both 13% MORE SM/L resistance than yours as well as having Eight Hundred and Twenty Six more HP than your build.


Even when OWTS is not running, my build has 2294 HP which is still more than 500 HP over your build.


But just in case thats not enough for you, here is another build that is not billions and billions of INF beyond your reach:

It still has 38.5% SM/L resistance base.

68.4% SM/L Resistance with OWTS running (more than your build)

2300 HP (530 more than your build) base.

2599 HP with OWTS running (831 more than your build).



And still manages to have better ST DPS, better AoE capabilities and more recharge.


Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1424;678;1356;HEX;|
|78DA65935B6F124114C767602942AF484B5B7BA5D08BD46EC1D6C41893268A4D342|
|56943BCC41742E814D6124A8026FAE667D0C47A79F5FAAC463F8377FD027E01B55E|
|1EB5E2D9F31F68EB6E607FB3FF3DE7CC99FFCCA6AE26DB84B8BE2064EBE962B65AC|
|D9CAA6CD6942795CD5B39E115428458C8A45451293399ADAC63380839A9D654A9AA|
|CC74C152C5D5C663E06CA9A02AAA54331B83B6E58D8DA2B9A4B265AB946FE787452|
|B5FA8D1939F9FD265A5563B1B51ABAA522D58E5DE33652B6762A6F4C6663193CA56|
|6BAA72AD8FFA8AD1FF8B685C758F582324847F9D319367CC16008B91B8C278450B1|
|65267F5485B9AEC06BA18B17920CE9849305E539644964B226B625FD61B0A70EBB2|
|EEF32CB5AC30C269461465275076026543E4B10759D283B22D28BB4D9A572FCE7B9|
|260B8C581FFD8767C3F8735DF522F3E5DD577029A5F5352D156D415AD75BA849B94|
|76441BEDE8AE03DD751C6574CD0158C03B2ADEC956D44567982DFD41F7007B5AF70|
|47EBB6CE9E01F6087D1FD17A8338685DBC67B2A14C4BC22B843181206B5D2A35DEE|
|811D21D81182CB6314D0AB037AA779F2BE7DF849F77EDD4AFF7D9EEED003E02163F|
|011F018AD3C617CA05606742B039837E2B51B8234C43EFDA2F188DE91111CB7519C|
|B3519CB3519CB330CE591847F123951ED35963F026026F22F026026FA2F0260A6F3|
|E51D6B89E7DDC5EF090C8D18B2948C6D41661521CBE0DDC01EE3262F7188AC2A775|
|F8F4536EE5C833E039F0029FCA4BC6679AD044B8348FE1A8CC6A06C88AB8363D0E7|
|712D895047665D0687E88F4B3BD8A3994B843493894398732EF50168DE6E75B5F72|
|BC5D36F44B52242BBE2E615BCAF15FFDCD8F58BFDDDE55A4BCC08B719D93B67FDF1|
|CB1DF7715B7BCC1BBE5BAC5306E025B8C15BF5D0D335EDC33BEB4677C79CF782148|
|597AFC0F87AAFAF9|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|


Don't like epics? Think I'm cheating with Darkest Night?


Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1425;671;1342;HEX;|
|78DA65936B4F1A41148667619102DE28825AF1C245B4A02B54D3344D1393564D6C2|
|4D1905ED22F86C8082B1409D0A47EEB6F6893F60FF4FA577A6F7F47ABB6FDD85A7A|
|F6BC03627703FBCCBE7BCE9933EFCC661FAEF40AF1685968BE1B957CA3B17DBDFEA|
|0295DD97CD1DC116E21448885EDACAC4869ACE4EB650CC39057E4AEAC36A4912B99|
|B252683FFAD7AB255997D5A6D11EF46EEEEF578C0D99AF99D5621F3FAC99C552939|
|EBCFC94AB49591868471564BD51326BA3AB3573C758ADCA7AF1603B9B6F3465FD00|
|0D8E506749FA7F13EDABE512BB848CF09619F345C642093019993DC65B5AB2D0545|
|650B3A499216090915C02D28CF90CE31D6569C87268C84A9CC97A4F014E55D6798B|
|A59E2D4624C788A36C026513281B22975DC8D25C28DB83B247A4B9D5E2DCD708BA5|
|39CFB8FBD57CE7242F103F5E251553D57A17915352AEA435DE16BD1259CA4F4215A|
|EF4377FDE8AEFF12637011C0023E52F101B6A22506226CE90FBAFBD9D396CBFFDB6|
|149E7FF00278CA1BF408B31219C163E51A100E6158113C2B8D0A995A07239083B42|
|B0230497A31430AC0286533CF9C819FCA4FBA86A65F4394F77E105F092117E05BC4|
|62B6F189FA99531D5CA18E68DB9AD86208DB34FBF683CA9766412C76D0AE76C0AE7|
|6C0AE72C827316C151FC42A5A32A2B0A6F62F026066F62F0260E6FE2F0E62B654DA|
|B3D99B6163C2EE6E6B85E1B711C74E098EEB36A92D91217BA68027B409991AC3016|
|EE330E293EA59698BA8CE3E1F10B6128278C671CE62727D2CAF334CCC9605332D89|
|4B0DEF90EE9675995B429699B92B1298B3665C9A6ACE99DAFB7B5617BBBA9AB97A4|
|68AC780685E528C77FF776BE61F5F6E854D1B4DBBC18C74DC28C38B4C51E9F2A4EE|
|D313BE378CAD09F00B06BCB6B55C38C77BAC677BBC6F7BAC6CB01CA52E37F0422F9|
|67|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Just in case you don't feel like loading it:

76% Res to SM/L with OWTS running
2832 HP with OWTS running


The conclusion?

Your ideas and assumptions about SD are completely wrong.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
The Shield Brute doesn't have the extra defensive benefits that a DA Brute stacks on top of that - heals, -to hit auras and a permanent mez effect to all those in melee.
The Shield Brute has just proven above that it can both supersede the amount of HP by more than 800 to 1000 vs. your DA build while also having 70-76% SM/L resistance.

It has no Dark Regen, because frankly it would be insanely overpowered if it had a native self heal. Not to mention Rebirth helps plug that hole.

No -To hit aura?

It has -Damage, which is more valuable than -To Hit once you are already softcapped.

A permanent mez affect?

Who needs a permanent mez effect when you could just kill every thing in less time with a 20 foot radius mini-nuke on a 26-28s recharge that also has KD?

 

Posted

you gotta give to him though....
you don't see this often