Defenders Damage


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Ok, So I may be the only on COH that feels the way I feel. I have always been fond of range toons. My favs being Dominators, Corruptors, Defenders. I know defenders role are to buff heal what have you, but there damage is way to low in my oppinion. I know there must be other post out there. I just wish that they would increase there damage output. No I am not say defenders should be blaster or scrappers damage out put, but just a little more would make me happy.

Please dont slam my post to much lol


 

Posted

The devs are happy with defender damage and have said as much. It was a huge concession from them when they made vigilence give a damage boost when solo and on small teams but they pretty much had to do that since the defender was underpowered compared to corruptors and very few people would ever have rolled a defender again after GR came out.

That said the biggest problem with defenders is still that the DPE is way out of whack. Your damage powers cost too much blue when solo but they can cost virtually nothing if you play selfishly and essentially let your team down for the sake of you blasting with your low wattage secondary instead of buffing/debuffing. Vigilence is borked. It incentivizes poor play on the defenders part and punishes good play.

Defenders are sort of broken but they are broken in the way the devs want them to be broken.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

Take a look at the video in my sig and say that again.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Take a look at the video in my sig and say that again.
I may just not be familiar with how much damage the Lore pets can put out, but how much of that is something crazy like Neutrino Bolt slotted for procs?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight_Tempest View Post
I may just not be familiar with how much damage the Lore pets can put out, but how much of that is something crazy like Neutrino Bolt slotted for procs?
Neutrino has 2 damage procs(one of them is purple), the achilles' -res proc and 66% damage slotting. Cosmic Burst has 1 damage proc and 102% damage slotting.

On my own I can do like 150 DPS tops, but my buffs and debuffs multiply the lore pets in a way no scrapper or blaster could, especially considering lore pets are affected by recharge buffs.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Although I admit at most times I wish defenders would do the same proportional damage compared to blasters as the tank already does in comparison to scrappers, there is another aspect that would excite me even more. I would like to see the secondary effects of defender blasts be increased including better accuracy for archery and some way to feature more knockdown in energy blast. This would increase the desire for defenders to blast as much as increased damage.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

The inherit change to defender's damage pretty much kills any chance of defenders getting more damage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan78 View Post
Ok, So I may be the only on COH that feels the way I feel. I have always been fond of range toons. My favs being Dominators, Corruptors, Defenders. I know defenders role are to buff heal what have you, but there damage is way to low in my oppinion. I know there must be other post out there. I just wish that they would increase there damage output. No I am not say defenders should be blaster or scrappers damage out put, but just a little more would make me happy.

Please dont slam my post to much lol
They changed Vigilance awhile back to boost their damage actually.

A scaling damage buff that maxes out at 30% at level 20. You loose a third of that if you team with someone else and two thirds if you team with two people. Three or more and the buff goes bye bye.

Mind that's mostly to help a defender who's alone or on small teams. On larger teams your primary job is to buff and debuff and your secondary job is to blast away.


 

Posted

What i dont like is that defenders have the same -res in all of their powers as other AT's sets. the few that dont (sonic blast and TA) dont have a big enough difference IMO.

I think they should have higher -res, so they debuff better, and that would also help with damage


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Especially considering lore pets are affected by recharge buffs.
Wait....what??? seriously? After making every other pet in the game immune to recharge buffs, lore pets are affected? That seems like a mistake if it's true.


Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Take a look at the video in my sig and say that again.
oh look, lore pets taking out a pylon... oh and some empathy defender.

nice try.


Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draggynn View Post
Wait....what??? seriously? After making every other pet in the game immune to recharge buffs, lore pets are affected? That seems like a mistake if it's true.
Yeah, I tested it myself multiple times. Using Adrenalin Boost on Vicky gave me significantly faster Pylon times consistently. I'm talking about a 50% faster time with AB.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload View Post
oh look, lore pets taking out a pylon... oh and some empathy defender.

nice try.
Post a time with only lore pets, let's see the difference. In fact, post a time with a scrapper and lore pets.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
Post a time with only lore pets, let's see the difference. In fact, post a time with a scrapper and lore pets.
Not to downplay that, but it tells far more about the defender buffs than defender damage. Do we get a cookie if we can show a faster scrapper time?


The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microcosm View Post
Not to downplay that, but it tells far more about the defender buffs than defender damage. Do we get a cookie if we can show a faster scrapper time?
It is your damage, though. Just like the pets are a part of your damage, they are also a part of my damage. Fact is that defenders, due to their buff/debuff nature, get more out of lore pets than any other AT.

Your scrapper with lore pets might come close to that time or even surpass it, but the fact that defenders can now match a scrapper pylon time is proof enough that defender damage got a significant buff through lore pets.

Think of it like this. In the final AV fight in Lambda for example, not only will I have scrapper level DPS, I also contribute more to the team's damage+survivability through buffs and debuffs.


Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auroxis View Post
It is your damage, though. Just like the pets are a part of your damage, they are also a part of my damage. Fact is that defenders, due to their buff/debuff nature, get more out of lore pets than any other AT.
I don't personally count lore pets as my damage when it cannot be consistent. It feels kind of like counting Eye of the Magus as my defense because I can use it every 5 minutes or whatever against AV's.

Quote:
Your scrapper with lore pets might come close to that time or even surpass it, but the fact that defenders can now match a scrapper pylon time is proof enough that defender damage got a significant buff through lore pets.

Think of it like this. In the final AV fight in Lambda for example, not only will I have scrapper level DPS, I also contribute more to the team's damage+survivability through buffs and debuffs.
That's certainly true.


The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight View Post
Vigilence is borked. It incentivizes poor play on the defenders part and punishes good play.
Yeah, Vigilance is a joke. But we know why.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
The inherit change to defender's damage pretty much kills any chance of defenders getting more damage.
THIS ! And as one of those Defender that has asked for improvements over the past 7 years, I would not hold out any hope that we will be seeing more damage in the future.

Balance concerns may still exist between primaries, but asking for more damage is probably a futile hope.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
The inherit change to defender's damage pretty much kills any chance of defenders getting more damage.
This. This is actually the final word on the topic, I believe.


My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduke24 View Post
What i dont like is that defenders have the same -res in all of their powers as other AT's sets. the few that dont (sonic blast and TA) dont have a big enough difference IMO.

I think they should have higher -res, so they debuff better, and that would also help with damage
Defenders do debuff better, last time I checked. Sonic attacks debuff 20% for Defenders and only 15% for Corrupters. The difference adds up fast when you start stacking those debuffs. The Defender primary powers are the same way and work better on Defenders than any other AT. This includes buffing powers as well as debuffs.


 

Posted

I haven't been subbed for a while, but I took my Traps / Dark out yesterday.

I was able to drop 2 Pylons with the Lore pets out; on my way to the third, they despawned. And then I dropped a third Pylon for good measure.

That is, IME, a solid amount of damage with or without Lore pets.


 

Posted

I must admit I'm a little uncertain by what metric people measure defender damage as not being enough. Given that at least some defender builds have the capability to take down AVs I don't feel defenders are broken as an AT. Either solo or on teams. As for the whole vigilance giving incentive to bad play....I don't think I have ever seen anyone deliberately play badly for for the purpose of getting vigilance bonuses.

With the new Keyes trial though you can't help but get a huge amount of benefit from vigilance.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight View Post
Defenders are sort of broken but they are broken in the way the devs want them to be broken.
I think this hits the nail on the head. My viewpoint is that yes, the damage of "support" characters is to low, but that's because the support from damage characters is to low. It would be nice to see an increase in Defender damage but the only way to balance it would be to somehow increase the force multipliers available to the damage based AT and I don't think that's possible within the context of the way ATs are designed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arondell View Post
I must admit I'm a little uncertain by what metric people measure defender damage as not being enough. Given that at least some defender builds have the capability to take down AVs I don't feel defenders are broken as an AT.
The ability for Defenders to solo AVs is not based on their damage, it's based on their ability to stop the AVs regeneration. If you can do that actual DPS is irrelevant, you just need to be able to survive long enough.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
I think this hits the nail on the head. My viewpoint is that yes, the damage of "support" characters is to low, but that's because the support from damage characters is to low. It would be nice to see an increase in Defender damage but the only way to balance it would be to somehow increase the force multipliers available to the damage based AT and I don't think that's possible within the context of the way ATs are designed.
That sounds not so much like a complaint about defenders as such so much as a complaint about the framework in which all the ATs have been made.