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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Why was that a bad thing? Even if you didn't have any immobilizers on the adds, the people with KB should be able to knock the adds against the wall of the nearby building, which doesn't slow things down at all. They're pretty much in the same area, and should be in a nice clump of their own as well.
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Spawn point
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KB can be a real pain for my Fire/Ice tank as the KB; 1) knocks the mob off my Ice Patch and now allows them to use their range attacks on me causing me to take more damage than I other wise would and 2) knocks the mobs off my Burn and Blazing Aura, effectively cutting my damage to them.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I still don't know why tankers hate knockback. Their taunt aura lasts around 11 seconds on their targets so even knocked back targets will return to the tanker. Auras that give bonuses per target (Invincibility, Rise to the Challenge, Chilling Embrace inparticular) are really the only ones that don't benefit from knockback. Besides, who can really say that the mitigation from knockback isn't as good as the +regen that you miss for a few seconds from RttC? Meh, whatever, Energy Blast is still a cool looking, and fun powerset.
Haters gonna Hate. |
As annoying and frustrating as this can be though, I do not feel it is a good reason to exclude someone from a team just because they may do knockback. I much rather team with people I can have fun with the make some uber team that can finish a TF in record time.
*shrug*
Honestly, coming at this from the other side? I've been playing my KB-happy Energy/Energy blaster for close on to six years now, and for every clueless knockback monkey out there, there's an equally-clueless melee player who will piss and moan and whine every time they have to move two feet to catch 'their' mob. Then they'll complain more because 'their' mob is dead on the second bounce and they just wasted their time chasing it.
I mean, yeah, you need to be at least marginally intelligent with your knockback, but from what I've seen, the hate it draws is blown so far out of proportion it's ludicrous.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head." Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates
MA Arcs: #12285, "Small Fears", #106553, "Trollbane", #12669, "How to Survive a Robot Uprising"
Quote:
You'd see an Ice more often if trials didn't suck so damn much.|
Originally Posted by TrainRobber
I rarely see Psy (who does anywhere), never see archers, or Ice it seems. |
But seriously, Ice blast isn't too bad, it's just sort of... there, mostly.
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
Here it is, those who complain about Knockback - are lazy.
The Tank/Brute runs in and stops taunting the group and then punches the nearest boss in the face.
The right way to hold aggro is to jump OVER the group taunt the ones in fromnt and the whole mob turns. Then:
1) you are looking back at your team so you can catch stragglers and ambushes coming from behind.
2) Knockback - knocks them TO you.
3) Cones from the bad guys don't hit your team.
4) moving and rarely punching the same guy twice holds more aggro
So you then have foes that are turned away from your team, being knocked off their feet, taunted to the Tank, attacked by a moving tank so they switch back out of melee to shoot the tank and so are using their weakest attacks and aware of incoming ambushes.
I personally would have said - I am sorry for your limitations as a tank - if you like I can explain how you can allow people to use all of their powers and still be safe and kill quickly?
Quote:
By the same reasoning, the Blaster can jump ahead and knock enemies into the Tank.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Here it is, those who complain about Knockback - are lazy.
The Tank/Brute runs in and stops taunting the group and then punches the nearest boss in the face. The right way to hold aggro is to jump OVER the group taunt the ones in fromnt and the whole mob turns. Then: 1) you are looking back at your team so you can catch stragglers and ambushes coming from behind. 2) Knockback - knocks them TO you. 3) Cones from the bad guys don't hit your team. 4) moving and rarely punching the same guy twice holds more aggro So you then have foes that are turned away from your team, being knocked off their feet, taunted to the Tank, attacked by a moving tank so they switch back out of melee to shoot the tank and so are using their weakest attacks and aware of incoming ambushes. I personally would have said - I am sorry for your limitations as a tank - if you like I can explain how you can allow people to use all of their powers and still be safe and kill quickly? |
And the Tank can just as easily reply, I'm sorry for your limitations as a blaster - if you like I can explain how to use inspirations so you don't have to rely on me holding aggro, especially when even with taunt, an aggro aura, and gauntlet, aggro can be pulled from a tank due to superior damage.
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The BrandX Collection
I don't like excessive knockback when I play. I just flat-out don't. Too many people have no clue how or when to use it. Those that do know tend to think that they are never wrong, either. For example, that Tank is using Burn. Is it helping in any way to knock mobs out of the Burn with a force bolt? That mob is no longer going to be getting aggro'd by the burn patch or the blazing aura.
Now, if the mobs are knocked out of the Burn with an AoE that kills or mostly kills them, fantastic. That's doing it the right way.
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Some thing's I've learned as an energy/energy blaster advocate: |
Originally Posted by Irish Fury
My rule of thumb is that if someone rejects me based on the type of toon I'm running, that is not a person I want to team with anyway. My first 50 and probably my consistently favorite toon is an Energy/Energy blaster, so I feel your pain.
On the subject of knock back, it can be a very useful tool to a team if used correctly. It as easy as remembering two rules when teamed: 1: Use AOE KB very sparingly and only when absolutely necessary. 2: If you knock it back, knock it dead. |
1. Hover blast and your AoE Knockback becomes KNOCKDOWN! Much more effective in my opinion
2. If you have SS, use the shark circle tactic around the mob and use your KB to toss runners BACK into the pile(:
3. With power thrust, fire it off then que' up energy punch. If it's slotted correctly you can toss the baddie and kill him in mid air with your second attack!
4. If you have an AoE Imob like web envelope, use that first :P then the KB is almost eliminated
Anyway the BAF gives me a good example of how a team leader actually needs to understand how to use KB players and KB players need to help the team leader. The other day our League leader had put an energy blaster and a peacebringer on the reinforcement team. Needless to say the scatter made strong and pretty near impossible.
In my experience, the number of Energy blasters who know how to minimize the detrimental aspects of knockback is far outweighed by those who just blast stuff everywhere with no thought for where it is going.
How can that be a bad thing you ask?
Try getting to the defeat all missions toward the end of a Synapse TF and having your idiot blaster knock a Clockwork inside a wall where no one can target or hit it and you'll know what I mean. We had to restart the TF 2 hours into it because of that guy's carelessness.
I know it is very possible to play an Energy blaster well and use the knockback to help the team, and any player I actually know is welcome to bring an energy blaster along on anything I do.
I'm just a little leery of people I don't know and have never teamed with before bringing an energy blaster.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory