Consistent inconsistency

Holy cow! I should NOT have used SS/Inv as an example! No one paid any attention to my Electric Blast/Storm Summoning vs Illusion/Rad example, but people are defending SS/Inv's honor like a hot maiden at a Renaissance Festival--and ignoring the whole point of the post.

I, here now, do fully retract and redact any and all of the aspersions that I did not cast towards SS/Inv.

Let's forget that ill-fated example. Let it go.

My point was that certain sets in the game have especially good synergy that seems to be unintentional. If that is the case, why not make it intentional and intentionally in harmony with the stated nature of the game since it's going to happen anyway.

The response was lukewarm, so there you go.


I think we've all learned a lesson here--don't *blank* with SS/Inv!

When I wrote that last response your response wasn't up yet, Gob, so I just wanted to say that my last response wasn't because of you :P.

That's a cool rationale for the Psi resist. It makes me kind of wisht the sets weren't labeld "willpower" or Invulnerability", but less specifically--but, I understand it's there for game flavor, and can be ignored.

The reason there doesn't seem to be much intentional synergy is because of the way power sets are designed. The first question is "What powers would be thematically appropriate for this power set?" not "What power sets should this set be paired with?" And I think that's a good priority. I don't want developers deciding which power-sets should be paired together.

Now, if you want to make the argument that power sets should be more customizable so that Electric Blast/Storm Summoning has better synergy, that could be an interesting discussion.

Well that's an interesting idea and one that I never thought of. Something a bit more than just power choices that you could use to create synergy between sets. That would do the same thing without leaning on certain combinations.

But that sounds more like a major game-mechanic change than I was thinking. I was more suggesting that the Devs just be mindful that certain power combinations are especailly solid since they are classic. More of a conceptual suggestion than a game-mechanic suggestion.

the closest comic book to what we have is probably Gold Digger

Gold Digger has a D&D style fantasy world, a post Evil Dead style undead world, a freaky physics bending middle space, a superpower fighting circuit that crosses between Streetfighter and Professional wrestling, a society of adventuring archaeologists/treasure hunters/seekers of the unknown, a JLA style superhero group that decided to become an MIB style group to avoid giving a public target for supervillains to latch onto, space aliens that crash landed on Earth years ago, leprechauns with voltron style combining robots (Vaultron, to be precise), a GIJoe style evil mercenary/terrorist group and a GIJoe style group of elite pilots, ninja, magic, werecreatures, Washu-level mad scientists, and pretty much anything else you can think of

I mean it when I say I have really enjoyed the discussion. It has helped me appreciate the diversity more.

I still do think that, in general, the really especially synergystic combinations are not the classic combinations and not intentional, and that the conceptually "lower powered" melee defensive sets are often slightly stronger than the conceptually "high powered" ones. And that seems backasswards. Since it can't be perfectly balanced, I just thought some attention could go to making sure the classic, cosmic/god sets and combos get some consideration.

But, I could be wrong. And, as was stated, people are going to play the classic combinations anyway because they are classic, so maybe it promotes diversity. It is true that the FotM's are often thematically awkward and so people don't flock to them as much as they would otherwise.

AND I learned not to mention a specific power set in a thread unless you want it to turn into a powerset discussion :P.

See you in the game, I'll be the one with the tights, conspicious underwear-clad package, and towel around his neck (just kidding, I'm more into silver age--tights, but no underwear).

Thanks

You did already make that point--that your perspective is that there is no high or low powered sets. Or that any one, if they should so choose, could be to ignore the in-game descriptions also. And, as an individual perspective, it's perfectly valid. But that doesn't jive with the in-game description--which may be ignored but exists for a reason in a superhero themed game--and it doesn't make it the ultimate truth that is the end of all discussion.

I think the "synergy" of similar sets (Ice/Ice, Fire/Fire, Elec/Elec, etc.) is the combination of their secondary effects. An Ice/Cold Controller can reach the slow cap at quite a low level when combining Shiver with Snow Storm (in fact, it becomes redundant at higher levels to use them both). An Elec/Elec blaster can drain most of the end of an even-con mob via Short Circuit and Power Sink. Dark/Dark defenders practically make enemies into headless chickens as far as "hitting a teammate" is concerned. Stackable secondary effects of powers is good incentive for choosing complimentary powersets.

Wow, forgive the reference and grammar errors in that previous post--I was at work and trying to dash it off before my boss came back. Also, it came across harsher than I meant.

What I meant was that while ignoring in-game descriptions--or even ignoring the fact that it is a superhero-themed game at all--is possible and perfectly valid for any individual, that doesn't mean it's how everyone should be or in any way the "right" way to play. And, yes, the same goes for the opposite perspective.

But, regardless, the fact remains that it is a superhero themed game and there are specific in-game descriptions to faciltiate this theme, or else there would be nothing for you to have to ignore.

That being the case, for those who choose to play the game in the way it was conceived designed, my original point, that the really especially synergystic combinations are not the classic combinations and seem not to be intentional, and that the melee sets that are conceptually "lower powered" based on their in-game description are often slightly stronger than the conceptually "high powered" ones, is valid.

Now, I originally saw that as a problem, but, as the thread has progressed, I feel less so.

For Fiery Aura, there really isn't much flavor text to ignore. "Through Intense Heat and Fire, you can absorb many kinds of damage."

Willpower has a bit more flavour text: "You aren't invulnerable. Bullets don't bounce off you, and if you are cut, you bleed. You are, however, tough, grizzled and strong willed. It takes more than a little cut to keep you down!" Some of this does need to be ignored for a lot of concepts. The above mentioned robots, for example, probably don't bleed. I'm also sure there are also a lot of people who need to ignore it because their characters aren't exactly "grizzled."

Ice Armour has flavour text I'm sure almost everyone ignores. "You can dramatically reduce your core body temperature to form various armours of ice around yourself." I'd ignore that simply because reducing your core body temperature is entirely unnecessary. You need to reduce your surface body temperature. That's where the armour needs to form. Unless you need to coat your stomach lining for some reason.

Energy Melee: "You use Energy Melee to power your blows with pure energy." I don't need to ignore anything to decide that my "Unwise Raver" is punching people with glow sticks.

The one melee power set that people do have to ignore the flavour text on is Dark Melee. "Dark melee allows you to focus the powers of the Netherworld to defeat your foes." and just about every power mentions either "forces of the Netherworld" or "essence of your foe's souls." That type of talk doesn't lend itself to many concepts.

I am not ignoring in-game descriptions by making my goddess Willpower/Stone Melee.

I AM ignoring in-game descriptions if I decide that my Demon Summoning/Poison Mastermind actually summons Lab Rats instead of demons.

I am ignoring in-game descriptions if I decide to colour all my powers blue and say that my Kinetic Melee/Fiery Aura scrapper is actually a water elemental, and does water based attacks.

My main is a WP Brute, and I've long given up that she was just a 'super tough/never quit' type like Rocky Balboa. Not when she can leap off the highest building and not even twist an ankle.

I see the point about certain sets that seem to iconically go together not meshing any better than 'odd' combos, but as has been stated already, the odd combos don't need further discouragement to people playing them. In fact, I wonder if that might be part of the plan...

I remember when D&D 3rd ed. came out. It was sorta known that Clerics were historically one of the least played classes. With 3rd ed., the Cleric was a class that could wear armor, had pretty good hitpoints, AND access to spells up to 9th level, many of them that buffed basic stats that made the Cleric better than any fighter. A true tank/mage, the Cleric might have become the most powerful class in the game. Much discussion was made on how intentional this was to encourage people to play a traditionally less-popular class.

Does similiar thinking apply here? Who knows?

Concerning 'iconic' supers, I don't have much problem with how the game handles powerset synergy, but individual power combos sometimes seem to really screw things up. Take the traditional flying superman archtype. Your most powerful ability, Footstomp, cannot be used at all whily using your most archtypical ability('flying'). Superman fought while flying all the time. Any superman homage you make in the game, using SS/Inv, likely won't be.

And of course, what messes up iconic more than anything is visuals. There are lots of iconic heroes that can move and attack incredibly fast...yet I can't recall one of them that has flaming yellow energy around their fists due to speed (thanks alot, whoever developed Hasten)

This brings up the ability to have certain strengths and weaknesses to certain types of damage. If being a Fire/Fire whatever, one would think you to have a weakness to cold and strong against...well, fire. I wouldn't mind this being an option like turning on and off XP.