Energy Melee/Fire Armor or Dark Melee/Electric
By
A Man In Black,
Posted on: 2011-06-13 18:08 in Brutes
Here's what I can tell you about my EM/FA brute. He was my first villain. My first villain to 50. He's the only villain I've gotten all the accolades for.
I deleted and rerolled him as a dark/wp.
Between the insanely long cast times for EM's big hitters and FA's extreme squishiness outside of burn farms... I just couldn't take it.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
The game has changed much, but I was hoping to try to combine the single-target focus of Energy Melee with the AOE-goodness of Fire Armor. It was once a thing of beauty, even *before* the changes to Burn and Fiery Embrace. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Here's what I can tell you about my EM/FA brute...
I deleted and rerolled him as a dark/wp. |
Man, I really miss the days of Speed Cap SFs right after i19 and.../nostalgia.
Sorry. But yeah, I'd like to find another option other than deleting. I imagine you've enjoyed the Dark Melee/WP though. Nice synergy there.
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While still one of the squishier sets, /FA can be built to be tougher, like all the other Defense sets.
The question becomes, you willing to trade a bit of toughness for the added damage abilities, or even IO it out?
Now, I just don't care for EM anymore, due to ET's long animation. If they shorted it to Crane Kick/Cobra Strike/Crippling Axe Kick speed, I may feel differently about it. But right now...*sigh*...it was fine with one slow sattack, but now two...:/
Mind you, my experience was on a Tanker, so maybe BRutes Fury can make a difference.
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Actually /FA is not that squishy if you compare to Elec.
Def - None, like Elec.
S/L - Same
Fire - FA is to the roof. Elec is standart.
Cold - FA is average/low. Elec is standat.
Energy - FA is standart. Elec is to the roof.
Negative - Both standart.
Toxic - FA is to the roof (with Healing Flames prebuff) - Elec has 0
Psi - FA has 0 - Elec is standart
Both has none status prot to Fear. FA lacks KB res but its very easy to obtain through IOs so its a non-issue.
While Energise is super cool, on a pure suvival matter, Healing Flames are widely supperior.
Fire brings fuckload of damage. Fiery Embrace goes over damage cap, Burn is the bes AoE Brute have access to and Blzaing Aura is about 30% more damage than Lightning Field.
On the other hand, if that matters to you, Elec can pretty much ingore endurance issues quite early. But it doesnt make it tougher.
So I would say, on the tanking side, FA and Elec are both very good with a Def oriented build with a little edge for FA in general and a quite a wide supperiority to Elec when fighting Rikti/Praetorian (whitch is 80% of the lvl 50 content).
As for the primaries, Dark Melee is super good but it has no reliable AoE and Elec Armor doesnt really help on that. Energy seems to be overall weaker but definately have more SMASH feeling.
My advice is: Make them have babies and roll DM/FA 
ElA has higher base resist numbers than FA. Healing Flames are on a much shorter timer than Energize, but Energize's +regen is nothing to scoff at, and Power Sink is another layer of mitigation by flatlining the mob's endurance together with Electric Fences. Overall, I'd say ElA is somewhat tougher because of that, especially since energy is the third most common damage type in the game.
Quote:
Higher by 3% in S/L|
Originally Posted by Exxar
ElA has higher base resist numbers than FA. Healing Flames are on a much shorter timer than Energize, but Energize's +regen is nothing to scoff at, and Power Sink is another layer of mitigation by flatlining the mob's endurance together with Electric Fences. Overall, I'd say ElA is somewhat tougher because of that, especially since energy is the third most common damage type in the game.
|
Mob sap is pretty meaningless. 40% on minions/leut wont change much and it will not affect AVs on a meaningfull way. Also it would be CRAZY not to take Darkest Night if you consider tanking abilities.
Energize regen is far from meaningless but Healing Flames are indeed widely supperior.
Like I said FA isnt squisier, it is actually slighly tougher. Unless you consider high end content made of a LOT of Psy/Energy damage (Rikti/Praetorian) where Elec will be incredibly stronger.
FA is also incredibly more damage. Which is a consideration to take when you dont play a pure tanking AT.
Quote:
FA is not in any way shape or form tougher than ElA. It just isn't. And Power Sink will do -80 End when slotted, not -40.|
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU
Higher by 3% in S/L
Mob sap is pretty meaningless. 40% on minions/leut wont change much and it will not affect AVs on a meaningfull way. Also it would be CRAZY not to take Darkest Night if you consider tanking abilities. Energize regen is far from meaningless but Healing Flames are indeed widely supperior. Like I said FA isnt squisier, it is actually slighly tougher. Unless you consider high end content made of a LOT of Psy/Energy damage (Rikti/Praetorian) where Elec will be incredibly stronger. FA is also incredibly more damage. Which is a consideration to take when you dont play a pure tanking AT. |
And don't forget ElA has the Tier 9 for when the poop really hits the fan. 2 minutes of God mode (followed by messy death). Fire has Messy Death > Big boom ( possibly followed by another messy death).
FA does bring silly amounts of extra damage though. But if it had to be coupled with NRG Melee I think I'd go with the DM/Elec myself. Really though I'd be tempted to reroll both (Mace/FA sounds interesting and I know Claws/Elec and Dual Blades/Elec are both really enjoyable).
Quote:
I'll take a moment to address the hyperbole here. Assuming you take all toggles/auto armors/heals from Fire Armor and Electric Armor:|
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU
Actually /FA is not that squishy if you compare to Elec.
Def - None, like Elec. S/L - Same Fire - FA is to the roof. Elec is standart. Cold - FA is average/low. Elec is standat. Energy - FA is standart. Elec is to the roof. Negative - Both standart. Toxic - FA is to the roof (with Healing Flames prebuff) - Elec has 0 Psi - FA has 0 - Elec is standart |
Def - Neither has any inherent defense nor Def Debuff Resistance
S/L - Base 22.5% Fire Armor versus Base 26.25% for Electric
Fire - Fire Armor can Self-Cap with SOs versus Base 26.25% for Electric
Cold - Base 15% for Fire Armor versus Base 26.25% for Electric
Energy - Base 22.5% for Fire Armor versus Electric Armor can Self-Cap with SOs
Neg. Energy - Base 22.5% for Fire Armor versus 22.5%
Toxic - Base 15% Fire Armor (requires using Healing Flames) versus 0% Electric Armor
Psi - 0% Fire Armor versus Base 26.25% Electric Armor
Overall, that extra 4% Base in most of Electric Armors powers is above the average, but Fire Armor has the rare Toxic resistance.
As for Healing:
- Fire Armor "Healing Flames": Base 25% Heal/ 15% Toxic Res. (60 seconds)/
40 sec. recharge
- Electric Armor "Energize": Base 25% Heal, +100% Regen (30 sec duration),
60% Endurance Discount (30 sec duration)/120 sec. recharge
In situations where there is no -recharge, endurance drain, cold, or psionic damage, I would say that Fire Armor will like be more resilient "out of the box" thanks to the direct benefits of a faster recharging Healing Flames.
However:
Some Fire Armor drawbacks that you haven't detailed as much include:
- even with the +Endurance buff to Consume, Fire Armor is highly susceptible to endurance drain (whereas Electric Armor can shrug off most endurance drain attacks due to high res)
- even with the added 20% Res to Slows/Recharge, Fire Armor is still susceptible to -slow and -recharge (far more than Electric)
One significant Electric Armor strategy that can play a role in its overall survival is combining the heavy Endurance Drain potential of Powersink (Base 40% drain)*with* EndMod slotting from Lightning Field (Base 3% drain)
This is to say nothing of comparing Tier 9 powers, the benefits of a self-rez versus a "Godmode" power, or even the utility of "killing things faster to avoid incoming damage"
(a reasonable debate that should also take account for the benefits of Endurance Sapping in a prolonged encounter as a counterpoint to kill speed)
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When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.
FA has less resist to smashing, lethal, energy, and psi, the four most common damage types. Even if HF recharges more quickly (while healing for less), you're looking at getting overwhelmed much more easily.
[quote]Toxic - Base 15% Fire Armor (requires using Healing Flames) versus 0% Electric Armor[quote]
I stack up healing flame to a steady 75% res toxic with NO problem.
For Energize VS Healing Flames the point isnt purly HPS by "heal when its needed". Unless you are fighting heavy Toxic mobs you wont cast healing flames on timer, but you will most likely do with Energize.
As for tier 9 powers I would pick any of them. But both have their strenghs.
Than again I'm not the advocate of FA>ElA but I dont support the reverse statement.
Quote:
Wow, electric is significantly more survivable than FA. Do you have experience with both on equivalent builds?|
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU
Than again I'm not the advocate of FA>ElA but I dont support the reverse statement.
|
To add to what others have said...
-Elec does get toxic resistance, and a significant amount, it's just in its tier 9. Considering the frequency of toxic attacks, this is not an issue. The tier 9 could also cap you to anything else except psi.
-Power Sink, with slotting and Musculature Radial, can sap 90% of the endurance from anything short of an AV/EB, which will completely neuter a mob. With over slotting, it can go up to ~94% iirc.
-It is easier to build an /elec for other survival (+defense, +hp, etc.), because you do not have to worry about endurance and because you get a bonus +recharge equivalent to two purple sets.
Edit: Healing flames is better in healing, but not "widely" better than energize, unless you completely discount the +regen of the latter.
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Just leveled a Ele/Fire brute with Mu Mastery, then Soul on his main build. Its Epic..
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Tankers : Ice/Ele, Fire/SS, Fire/DM, Invul/Fire, Ele/Stone Corrupter : Arch/TA
Scrappers : DM/DA, Kat/SR Brutes : Fire/Shield, Ele/Fire(Villian)
Controllers : Fire/Kin, Ele/Rad, Earth/Cold
I do have the experience with /ELA and /FA on Brutes around the same level of investment.
/FA will feel like it survives less. /FA will feel like it needs a bit more END. /FA will feel like you're killing things SO MUCH QUICKER!
/ELA will feel like you're never hurting for the BLUE! /ELA will feel tougher. /ELA will still feel pretty squishie compared to other sets out there!
Spines/ELA Scrapper lvl 44
Katana/FA Scrapper lvl 50
ELM/FA Scrapper lvl 50
DB/ELA Brute lvl 18
ELM/ELA Brute lvl 50
SS/FA Brute lvl 50
FA/FM Tanker lvl 50
FA/SS Tanker lvl 30
And I'm pretty sure I'm missing one or two 50's in that list of /ELA and /FA users.
/FA is just squishier. However, I also consider /ELA's Power Sink to be part of it's defensive tools, not just it's +END power.
/ELA also felt sturdier with +DEF added on, more so than my /FA. And that's comparing a /ELA Scrapper to a /FA Brute.
Out of those two builds however, I'd like choose DM/ELA over the EM/FA. On the plus side to EM/FA over other EM/ combo's is that you have FA to let loose with some decent AOE to help you not feel so bad when your team is killing off the targets of TF and ET while you're mid animation.
Admittedly, some of that mid animation kill steals could be stopped if people played above +1 Difficulty. But I notice a lot of times, if I'm in a PuG and I'm not the star holder, the diff is most of the time set to 1/1.
Both DM and EM are single target oriented sets. So /FA will help with the AOE a lot more. Though you may also go EM/FA/Pyre and DM/ELA/Soul (or Mu) for a bit more AOE.
Squishieness aside, while you (the OP) may have put in some time investment (maybe even IO investment) into these two Brutes, it's not that hard to just level a new one if you're only thinking of using one of these two for "time invested already" purposes, and not "I love these concepts".
After all that...I'll suggest going EM/FA. It has one distinct advantage...it's not a popular combo, so you won't see many other EM/FA Brutes (or Tanker equivalents) out there.
Of course, I don't see many DM/ELA out there, but I've seen more of them than I have of EM/FA, but again it's not like some big difference (and most people want some AOE in the build, so I think more and more are losing interrest in DM, at least, that's how it seems to me in game...others experiences may vary).
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While I frequent the boards for new ideas, I admit that i've not visited the Brute forums in well over a year+. The sad truth: i have forsaken the SMASH that once guided my villainous ways. I now seek to atone for my abandonment by dusting off one of my old Brutes and using the path of Incarnates to return to a life of SMASH.
There are many potentially stronger combinations out there, but I invested time into both a Dark Melee/Electric Armor Brute and an Energy Melee/Fire Armor Brute already. I've gotten most (if not all) the accolades for stat boosts as well as Demonic Aura.
So, I offer these two combos up for a debate of ideas. I don't specifically seek builds as much as I'd like to hear thoughts about how these sets work (for better or worse) considering that I haven't played the Energy Melee/Fire Armor since before the Energy Transfer change and the Dark Melee/Electric since before Energize was added.
Yes, i've been away from truly embracing my inner SMASH for some time. Help me return to a life of Fury.
Veridian Dynamics. Mistakes. We all make them. But sometimes mistakes lead to great discoveries. Mistakes are how we learn and grow... so we can do amazing things.
When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.