I've never in all my time playing found gauntlet to be autohit in PVE. I barely ever play without an aura on but I have tested gauntlet in the past and found it failed to be autohit. No where have I read that it is autohit.
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It is auto-hit on your target in PvE, but not against AVs and GMs.
I don't recall if the 'splash targets' are also auto-hit.
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I believe it should cover the splash targets as well, other than AVs and GMs. One of the perks of Taunt is it is autohit on everything in PvE, which is why I recommend it for Tanks: it's a near guarantee that you can keep the AV focused on you rather than someone else. Gauntlet alone is not going to do it there, because of the lack of autohit.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
It is auto-hit on your target in PvE, but not against AVs and GMs.
I don't recall if the 'splash targets' are also auto-hit. |
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Whether or not Gauntlet is Auto hit or not in PvE, it is still effecting to-hit rolls for your attacks, and that effect is not showing in the combat logs.
According to the game, Gauntlet has a default Acc. of 1. That should translate to a 75% chance to hit against even cons (if Gauntlet indeed needs a to-hit roll in PvE). Since it can't be buffed, again according to the in game information, that means every time it "goes off" it seems be resetting the streak breaker.
That may not be much of a difference in how often the streak breaker kicks in against even or lower con mobs, but it could have a greater effect against +3 or +4 mobs. Especially considering your base accuracy drops to 48% against minions at +3, and even further to 39% at +4. That doesn't even include modifiers for Lts, Bosses, or EBs, etc. Even if all your other powers have enough accuracy/to-hit in them that it "shouldn't" make a difference on how often the streak breaker is invoked, Gauntlet "seems" to be mucking things up.
If nothing else this does create the "perception" that the streak breaker is broken when you can have a 95% "last chance to hit" and still get several misses in a row, or that tanks might be getting the short straw because of Gauntlet's effect on the streak breaker.
This still doesn't answer the question that IF Gauntlet is "suppose" to be auto hit(which I may incorrectly believe is true), why does it seem to be effecting the streak breaker?
Things to consider.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Sounds like Black Scorpion needs to be made aware of this issue ...
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Yeah, that definitely sounds like a bug to me. Gauntlet is supposed to be auto-hit in PvE against anything other than an AV or GM. However, there are two ways to go about that:
1) It just hits, with no ToHit roll required.
2) It needs to roll a ToHit roll, but then just forces it to hit, even if the ToHit roll was too low.
If they coded it as the second, which they might need to do as part of an attack, then it shouldn't affect the streakbreaker, but it could. Basically, the streakbreaker should only be affecting the main attacks, not the ToHit roll of various effects that go along with it. If this is not the case, then it's definitely a bug.
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The way I regard gauntlet as autohit is, if the attack hits, gauntlet automatically hits (unless AV then it -20). Without the attack hitting, I have seen mobs carry on to somebody else. I want to read where it says that whether an attack hits or not the mobs are always affected by gauntlet. To me, with a missed attack, damage doesn't get multiplied with the gauntlet and some other team member is still regarded as a higher threat. I need to test it again as it could be years ago when I tested and found that relying on gauntlet alone was unguaranteed on minions let alone AVs.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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If the attack doesn't hit, then Gauntlet shouldn't be applied. Gauntlet should only be taking effect if the attack hits. However, if you're attacking anything less than an AV/GM, if the attack hits, Gauntlet should be applied automatically to all mobs in the AoE radius.
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Originally Posted by New Dawn
The way I regard gauntlet as autohit is, if the attack hits, gauntlet automatically hits (unless AV then it -20). Without the attack hitting, I have seen mobs carry on to somebody else. I want to read where it says that whether an attack hits or not the mobs are always affected by gauntlet. To me, with a missed attack, damage doesn't get multiplied with the gauntlet and some other team member is still regarded as a higher threat. I need to test it again as it could be years ago when I tested and found that relying on gauntlet alone was unguaranteed on minions let alone AVs.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I'm a bit confused as to what the OP is trying to say.
Rangle, do you mean that if:
1. A physical attack hits (i.e. haymaker)
2. The streak-breaker for gauntlet forces a miss for gauntlet
then
3. The streak-breaker for gauntlet will also force the physical attack to miss?
... I would find that... objectionable. :-)
Scrapper Jack (SJ/WP Brute), Sky Commando (WP/SJ Tanker), Curveball (Rad/DP Defender), and a bunch more.
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I think what he's saying is that the "invisible" ToHit roll of the Gauntlet check is counting as a full ToHit roll, and is therefore affecting actual attack rolls.|
Originally Posted by Curveball
I'm a bit confused as to what the OP is trying to say.
Rangle, do you mean that if: 1. A physical attack hits (i.e. haymaker) 2. The streak-breaker for gauntlet forces a miss for gauntlet then 3. The streak-breaker for gauntlet will also force the physical attack to miss? ... I would find that... objectionable. :-) |
Basically, if Gauntlet "misses," it means that the next attack will use the streakbreaker, and auto-hit, even if the last attack hit. Or, he'll have an attack miss, and the streakbreaker will cause Gauntlet to auto-hit (even though it already should), allowing for the next actual attack to miss as well, which shouldn't happen.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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The streak breaker cannot force a miss.
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Originally Posted by Curveball
I'm a bit confused as to what the OP is trying to say.
Rangle, do you mean that if: 1. A physical attack hits (i.e. haymaker) 2. The streak-breaker for gauntlet forces a miss for gauntlet then 3. The streak-breaker for gauntlet will also force the physical attack to miss? ... I would find that... objectionable. :-) |
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Good, thanks Aett that's what I thought. Down and Ironblade appeared to me, to be, saying otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
If the attack doesn't hit, then Gauntlet shouldn't be applied. Gauntlet should only be taking effect if the attack hits. However, if you're attacking anything less than an AV/GM, if the attack hits, Gauntlet should be applied automatically to all mobs in the AoE radius.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Sorry for the confusion New Dawn.
I'm not saying that Gauntlet will "auto hit" if your attack misses. What I am saying is that when you do hit and Gauntlet is applied, Gauntlet seems to be being counted in the "to-hits" that the streak breaker is tracking. Why is it doing that if it's supposed to be auto hit?
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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As Dechs says here, the streak breaker cannot force a miss. What it will do is allow a certain amount of misses before it will force a hit, depending on your final "to-hit" total.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The streak breaker cannot force a miss.
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According to the wiki site any final to-hit over 90% will allow you to miss once before the streak breaker kicks in. between 80-90% twice, between 60-80% thrice, etc. You can read more about it on the Attack Mechanics page.
What I am saying is that I'm seeing inconsistencies with the streak breaker, specifically on my tanks, that points to gauntlet being the culprit.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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This pretty much covers what I was trying to say.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I think what he's saying is that the "invisible" ToHit roll of the Gauntlet check is counting as a full ToHit roll, and is therefore affecting actual attack rolls.
Basically, if Gauntlet "misses," it means that the next attack will use the streakbreaker, and auto-hit, even if the last attack hit. Or, he'll have an attack miss, and the streakbreaker will cause Gauntlet to auto-hit (even though it already should), allowing for the next actual attack to miss as well, which shouldn't happen. |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Sorry I'm late to the discussion...|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
As Dechs says here, the streak breaker cannot force a miss. What it will do is allow a certain amount of misses before it will force a hit, depending on your final "to-hit" total.
According to the wiki site any final to-hit over 90% will allow you to miss once before the streak breaker kicks in. between 80-90% twice, between 60-80% thrice, etc. You can read more about it on the Attack Mechanics page. What I am saying is that I'm seeing inconsistencies with the streak breaker, specifically on my tanks, that points to gauntlet being the culprit. |
I've actually run into this with my namesake Claws/Invul Scrapper, since I run him every day I can for the tips/Hero Merits. I'll do an AoE attack, miss a target, then do a single target, and miss. Though it is irregular, I have had up to 3 misses in a row (the 3rd also being single-target) with this combo at a 95% chance to hit. This has also presented itself with my Invul/Axe Tank namesake on Exalted since leveling him to 50. I play him a lot too, so am inclined to notice such irregularities. I just figured that AoE's had a 'different' streak breaker limit vs single target, whether it was implied or not, which would explain everthing I seem to have experiened.
But if it's not, having experienced a number of misses that seemed to me to be too many, I've taken to keeping my last ToHit chance right under my target tab in the upper-middle of my screen. Now, interestingly enough, I don't generally run Invincibility on my Scrapper, which would increase ToHit (even though it's still showing 95%) so I don't think that's a culprit.
However, this is anecdotal evidence. I'll have to start recording my combat logs like done above to ensure there's anything afoot, but as far as my anecdotal evidence is concerned, it might be worth looking into. I'm not a number cruncher, so all I have is personal experience in this case.
Based on what I've been able to tell, the most important question I can ask, is there a difference between PBAoE attacks, AoE attacks, cone attacks, and single target attacks, and their effects on the Streak Breaker? That's where I seem to have run into the most... discrepancies. Again, anecdotal without hard data and screenshots backing it up.
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I couldn't agree more.
Any chance invincibility could be the culprit? I've had cloak of fear screw up my streak breaker on DA toons. Mids' says "This power is auto-hit, but has an effect that requires a ToHit roll".
edit: ah, nevermind. just re-read your OP and it says you tested other tanks with the same results.
AOE's probably contribute to your to-hit "issue". If I recall correctly, in my original testing I made sure I turned off all taunt/dmg auras and focused on using attacks that wouldn't "dmg" the other RWZ target dummies. This was to eliminate PBAoEs, AoEs and wide cones from the testing.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I'm not sure if you saw in my original post; I'd originally suspected Invincibility to be the culprit. As you saw, testing proved otherwise.
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Originally Posted by EJI
Any chance invincibility could be the culprit? I've had cloak of fear screw up my streak breaker on DA toons. Mids' says "This power is auto-hit, but has an effect that requires a ToHit roll".
edit: ah, nevermind. just re-read your OP and it says you tested other tanks with the same results. |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Gauntlet, the Tanker inherent. It's a great tool for controlling aggro, but is it also bugged?
Gauntlet is an added effect to a tanks attacks. Once your attack hits, Gauntlet is applied as an AoE minor taunt effect. In PvE gauntlet is supposed to be autohit, while in PvP I believe it requires a to-hit roll. I suspect that even in PvE there is some "to-hit rolls" happening that is effecting the streak breaker.
Recently while leveling up my Inv/Dual blades tanker I found myself slightly dumbfounded when I realized I had just missed 3 times in a row, even with a 95% chance to hit. Here's the clipped combat log and power tray showing the misses:
I recalled someone else having this happen to them so I searched the forums. I found a couple of other threads touching on this.
Paging Arcanaville is one of them: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=255632
The tank in the "Paging Arcanaville" thread was also playing an Invulnerable tank, so I thought it might not be a tank issue, but a possible Invulnerable set issue. To test this out I took both my lvl 47 Inv/Dark tank and my lvl 50 BS/Inv scrapper to the RWZ dummies and plunked away. Testing both of them, both with and without any toggles on, I never saw any oddities to the streak breaker on the scrapper, but I did with the tank. Here's a couple of clips showing this.
Sometimes the streak breaker kicked in when it shouldn't have, sometimes it didn't kick in when it should have.
So I tried it on my lvl 50 fire tank to see if it was a product of the Inv tank auto powers. Sure enough the streak breaker was kicking in, when it shouldn't have.
I've also tested this on my Lvl 50 Stone tank, my lvl 50 Dark tank, and my lvl 38 Ice tank and it's been very consistent across the board. Now, in the limited testing I did, I found that the streak breaker tended to cause more hits to happen, then allowing misses to happen. So if you've got good accuracy/to-hit bonuses things seem to work quite well in our (Tanks) favor.
So yes, it looks like Gauntlet is effecting the Streak Breaker, but not always in a bad way.
I do have full screenshots of all the above clips. I also have screen shots of the testing I did for the other tanks. I'll get around to testing this on my lvl 37-38ish Electric tank, and my lvl 50 Shield tank as well.
Clarification: I am not saying that gauntlet is "auto-hit" if your attack misses. I'm saying that when your attack hits and gauntlet is applied at that point "the gauntlet effect is auto-hit". Hope that makes better sense.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!