The Praetorian Kheldian Archetypes
And another thing. AT mimics would obviously be combined.
Scrapper and Stalker
Controller and Dominator
Blaster and Corrupter
Tanker and Brute.
Defender and Master Mind
Khelds and SoA
Because they are developed to be assassins of the supers the mimics you can have extra tricks the mimiced AT doesn't. One of the mimic inherent slots would choose a special IO to determine which AT it leans to more and it's powers while mimics slighty favors that. IE choosing scrapper leaning for scrap - stalker mimic.
Humans have no base powers.
The Dwarf form 'attacks' are likely natural for their race. They're certainly big enough and, boosted by Kheldian energy, it makes perfect sense. Ditto for the Nova form. And yes, Kheldian lore is a mess. So it doubly doesn't need this making it even more a headache. /Unsigned, thanks |
It was also mentioned that the kheldian only absorbs powers from their hosts, so let these new proposed kheldians bond 'part' of their energy to any being they come into contact with and absorb some of their powers for a limited time only since it wasn't a full bond. If you want them to be overpowered and you haven't given up on the lore yet, let them enhance their already present powers with Kheldian energy.
If you're still hell-bent on lore, make them evil Nictus-Khelds with no qualms about bonding with an unwilling host. I personally think it would be great to be able to pick up another player's attack chain, or an NPC's, or at least PART of it.
It would particularly help for the warshade-esque Praetorian-Kheldian to absorb abilities from a melee build to make them stop dropping below par in team vs. AV situations.
And for all of you who still seem determined to consider lore at all.. Why is it that kheldians can only bond with creatures that don't already have their own super powers? (In a city full of super heroes!!!) If I was a kheldian life force trying to survive in a city of super heroes I would probably pick something that would not only sustain my life and use my powers.. I would pick something I could COMBINE powers with.
If the lore is so messy I think at this point we might as well just stop worrying about it and focus more on finding a cool way for Khelds to get some attention.
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It was also mentioned that the kheldian only absorbs powers from their hosts, so let these new proposed kheldians bond 'part' of their energy to any being they come into contact with and absorb some of their powers for a limited time only since it wasn't a full bond. If you want them to be overpowered and you haven't given up on the lore yet, let them enhance their already present powers with Kheldian energy. |
If you're still hell-bent on lore, make them evil Nictus-Khelds with no qualms about bonding with an unwilling host. I personally think it would be great to be able to pick up another player's attack chain, or an NPC's, or at least PART of it. It would particularly help for the warshade-esque Praetorian-Kheldian to absorb abilities from a melee build to make them stop dropping below par in team vs. AV situations. And for all of you who still seem determined to consider lore at all.. Why is it that kheldians can only bond with creatures that don't already have their own super powers? (In a city full of super heroes!!!) If I was a kheldian life force trying to survive in a city of super heroes I would probably pick something that would not only sustain my life and use my powers.. I would pick something I could COMBINE powers with. |
Be Well!
Fireheart
But the key point is that Kheldians are Epic - ie Lore-driven character types. We cannot just toss that out, because it's inconvenient.
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But, again, you are missing the point - Kheldians do not acquire any powers from their host. Rather, the host gains powers from the Kheldian. In the original comic, introducing Kheldians (and so much else), the composite hero actually Lost a number of his previous 'powers' until he could figure out how to adapt the knowledge to his new powerset. |
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
So, what you're really looking for, is a way to gain more powers, based on the enemy you're fighting. Or are you saying you want to copy powers from your Teammates? That is definitely not within the current game technology. |
I know the lore, blah blah, kheldian power.. Which is why I suggested new kheldians with different powerset origins... You guys can work out the story aspect since you're obviously very dedicated to that. Also, an advancement in the AT that lets the new futuristic wave absorb powers from others in addition to their current functionality.....
Also like I said there needs to be balance.. I had ideas for that which can be found in the original post.
I don't feel it would be good to add a totally new EAT to the game when the present ones still need so much work. If new Kheldians were created- Perhaps with my ideas perhaps not.. It would still put the developers in a position where they needed to revisit the original Kheldians; Killing 2 birds with one stone. Fix the broken stuff WHILE adding new stuff.
"A helicopter can hover and move sideways in the air, I don't see why you can't do that with a turboprop airplane, I mean, they're both aircraft so they should be able to do it!"
If the lore is so messy I think at this point we might as well just stop worrying about it and focus more on finding a cool way for Khelds to get some attention.
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Fix the damn Khelds we have already so they suck less, before trying to ham-fist another version in without any decent lore.
Oh, and Rikti EAT > All
Discussion: Not optional
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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"A helicopter can hover and move sideways in the air, I don't see why you can't do that with a turboprop airplane, I mean, they're both aircraft so they should be able to do it!"
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![Confused](images/smilies/confused.gif)
And you miss the point. The Helicoptor is *designed* to be able to hover. The turboprop is not *designed* to be able to hover.
It just doesnt work dude. I can follow the kheld lore just fine even back thousands of years.
And there's a difference between "Becoming a big tanker because this race was large and tanklike" and "Becoming a Knife of Artemis with knife-fu because these particular individuals happened to know it."
Such a player-class option would lack immersion, be impossible to balance without gimping it all to hell, and frankly, would be pretty damn lame.
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
I feel like there have been lots of cool super heroes all throughout comic history with shape shifting abilities... Kheldians are our shape shifting AT, and if I knew nothing about this game my FIRST assumption would be that the shapeshifters could absorb forms. I'm not a game designer so I don't know how exactly it would work mechanically though I have posted some suggestions... I know the argument has been "Kheldians don't work that way" but the cool thing about proposing new ideas to a fantasy world is that logic doesn't need to be taken so strictly. Perhaps, like I already stated, these Kheldians are more advanced and have evolved to a point where they can bond *part* of their energy with A.) A willing host (team mate, the PB version) or B.) An enemy (The Warshade version) thus absorbing those forms. It would only be part of their energy, so they would only be able to retain the form for X amount of time. The reason they have this new ability is because *insert lore mumbo jumbo here.*
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Please give me an example of any MMO (or hell, any game for that matter) which has a shapeshifter that absorbs forms and does not have predefined paths.
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I'm not sure what you mean by pre-defined paths.. But as I already said several times, Shang Tsung in Mortal Kombat. I don't think it's fair to say "any other MMO" because COH prides itself on being the first (and best) Super Hero MMO. Many popular super heroes have this ability or something similar. Some examples are Shang Tsung (already stated,) Mystique from X Men, Ditto from Pokemon, Kirby in "Kirby Super Star", and I'm sure there are a bunch more.
Your idea is so so. The problem is that you fundamentally do not understand how programs are developed, nor how a development company must allocate resources.
It is possible, certainly, to create code to allow something like this. However, to retrofit this idea into City of Heroes would require months of coding effort by multiple programmers, followed by months of Q&A testing. It would completely lock up development of the game for the time coding would take.
Code changes would have to be made to *fundamental working code*. They would have to rewrite enhancement slotting, rewrite how powers are gained and lost, both of which have the potential to screw up *every other character* in the game.
THAT is why we're telling you it's a bad idea. It would monopolize programming time to the point that fixes won't get made and new content won't make it in, for six months or more, and the changes needed to support dynamic power allocation on the fly have the potential to screw over everyone.
Besides, This is not Mortal Combat. We're playing City of Heroes. This game does not work like that game. It's a completely different type of thing.
And if you think it's so easy, then go do it yourself.
Be Well!
Fireheart
I'm not saying "hey Devs! Do this now!" or even, next month or next year. Heck, I don't expect it to happen at all... It was just a hypothetical idea I had that I thought was kind of cool.
Besides, This is not Mortal Combat. We're playing City of Heroes. This game does not work like that game. It's a completely different type of thing. And if you think it's so easy, then go do it yourself. |
I was just citing examples of this mechanic happening in other games because I was asked to.
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Filed under the heading of: You Just Don't Get It.
Sub-heading: You Are Not An Engineer.
![](http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/7840/groove1.gif)
This fuel pump works perfectly fine in my Honda. Why is it unsuitable for a 737 airliner? All it does is pump hydrocarbons around, and they both use hydrocarbons for fuel. What's the difference? Why won't this work?
Filed under the heading of: You Just Don't Get It. Sub-heading: You Are Not An Engineer. |
I never claimed I was an engineer, jeesh. In fact I said myself that I have no real understanding of game mechanics. To quote my last post:
I'm not saying "hey Devs! Do this now!" or even, next month or next year. Heck, I don't expect it to happen at all... It was just a hypothetical idea I had that I thought was kind of cool. ![]() |
I haven't read the entire thread yet (halfway through page 2) but I can sort of see a way that this would work.
Assuming Cole has made a supersoldier that mimics the abilities of its enemies (so let's forget the Kheldian controversy) we could have an AT with a primary and secondary set that is qutie a mish-mash of powers and abilties. Ranged attacks, melee attacks, controls, buffs, debuffs, resist, and defense all sprinkled liberally through the primary/secondary powersets. Obviously not a lot of concentration on any one thing (there's just not enough space!) but a little bit of everything.
Then, depending on what you're toggled to "mimic" modifiers are applied to all your powers.
If you mimic a controller, your damage modifier and shield levels drop, but your holds go up a mag or two and your buffs/debuffs increase in value. Mimic a dominator and your holds go up a mag and your damage levels go up, but your shields lose much of their effectiveness.
Mimic a scrapper/stalker and your holds are mag 1, but you get a 1.3x modifier on your shields and a significant melee damage bonus. Tank/brute gives you a bigger shield bonus (1.5?) but smaller damage bonus. Team related buffs drop to 50% value or so.
Blaster mimic gives you an increased damage modifier overall. And so on and so forth.
Not sure what would happen if you try to mimic a mastermind. Not enough room in there to add a pet set.
Hmm, perhaps something like the Widow power tree selection. You can pick and choose from an expanded tree of available powers (including a pet set) and if you want to concentrate on one thing and always stay in the same mimic-mode you can do so, but then you may as well just be playing that AT, as you're missing out on all the versatility.
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to like this idea, but I imagine it would be a nightmare to code.
Jazra -- Level 50 Illusion/Radiation Controller
Swayvill -- Level 50 Plant/Psi Dominator
Droshalla -- Level 50 Warshade
Latro Dectus -- Level 50 Fortunata
Starseeds -- Level 50 Elec/Storm controller
Devouring Earth mutations would be the most thematic PEAT's IMHO.
Something harnessing the power of Hamidon. |
But most importantly, they need an awesome power like quicksand, that summons a bog.
So we can have PEAT bogs.
This issue has been resolved already. War Mace/Energy Aura Scrappers are the PEAT.
I dont think this idea for a PEAT even needs to have anything to do with khelds, and it really doesnt. I also, like someone posted earlier, think a PEAT would be some kinda Devouring Earth deal. This sounds cool but waay outside the limits of the game or what the devs can/will do.
I dont think this idea for a PEAT even needs to have anything to do with khelds, and it really doesnt. I also, like someone posted earlier, think a PEAT would be some kinda Devouring Earth deal. This sounds cool but waay outside the limits of the game or what the devs can/will do.
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It was meant to be hypothetical.
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
I don;t understand how it's 'too dynamic,' it would just be copying over forms that already exist in-game. I don't have any experience with game design so I'm not sure how hard of a process the coding would be, but I really doubt that it's undoable.
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Think about it this way...
Imagine being in a big tf or team and you have a buffer hitting your powers and the rest of the team's powers, so these items are constantly changing.
You're telling the system to track an entire character worth of constantly changing variables, then apply them in another place and that's not even the complicated part! Now you're allowed to edit those values via-inspirations, outside team buffs, and accolades.
Imagine a /kin using speed boost on a friendly team mate, who's powers I copied. Now since that SB is affecting their Rech, it affects mine too, oh and did i forget to mention you're in the AoE radius of that SB?! So that's x2 recharge. Also, as the insp guzzler that I am, i just ate three reds and a yellow. Oh look, my team mate has leadership. It just affected the guy who's powers that I copied, and it affects me. So x2 leadership, lets assume it's tactics and assault. Right there you're getting four variables alone.
Total that's:
2 for the SB
4 for the inspirations
4 for the leadership
Now that's only accounting for ONE /kin power and TWO leadership powers, did i forget to mention that scenario right there only included three players. Imagine how much worse it would be with 8, using their full range of abilities...
Each AT is made to be able to solo and team to their preference. Creating an AT that is literally based on randomly copying powers of team mates completely eliminates the solo player factor. That's a no-no on dev standards. So for regular playing, that INSANE amount of calculations is literally a waste of time and money. I'd rather those resources be used on tweaking some of the powers we have
Though the OP reasoning with Khelds was wrong, the concept is sound.
But I don't like the idea of a recycled EAT, instead it should be it's own entity.
Emperor Cole developed the ultimate super to combat other supers. This being would be humanoid with the power to copy openents they fight to be able to beat them.
Concept: the EAT would have a few abilities specific to his nature. On top of this he has the ability to tap into an enemy to mimic their AT style. You would NOT get powers specific to that enemy copied. You would instead open up the EATs own version of the scrapper, controller, tank etc. You would get only a few (4 or 5). The versatility of the mimic would be offset by only a few inherent powers. Lcling up you would pick an AT mimic as a power slot, with different lvl restrictions (at mimics maybe not locked into a lvl, but picking one will make it so you can't pick your next till the req lvl a new power would normally unlock). You would only have access to travel powers. APPs will be inherent to what you are mimicking at the time. The mimic itself comes with a number of slots to slot special IOs specifically made to flesh out your AT style (the slots are free) then you spend slots on specific powers to flesh them out. A mimic who mimics a scrapper a lot would have more slots in those powers and obviously would be lacking in another at mimic. Mimics would get a acc buff so as not to need to waste slots on low slotted abilities. This would be just enough to hit same lvl mobs consistently.
Obviously a lit of work, power tweaking, and slot tweaking would need to go into this. Especially determining mimic length time and recharge, if any.