New Computer

My current computer is 4 years old and I just had to replace the graphics card, so I'm thinking it may be time to buy a new computer. I asked the shop that repaired my computer to give me a quote to build a new computer and this is what I received:

·Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.4GHz Turbo Boost)
·Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600)
·Western Digital 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
·1GB EVGA GeForce 9500 GT Video Card
·Two DVD-RW Drives
·Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
$949.00 + tax – Includes price of components and labor to build and test.

Any comments or suggestions, or questions I should ask the shop? I would like to be able to run City of Heroes in Ultra Mode. My other uses of the computer aren't as graphically demanding. I would like to hit the mythical "sweet spot" of good performance for a good price, without either paying a lot for diminished marginal improvements or sacrificing significant QOL/performance for a few bucks savings.

I did not give the shop any price guidance, so I suspect that they may have gone cheaper than the price/performance sweet spot. I am rusty on computer prices, but I was expecting to pay closer to $2,000.

Would it be worth the extra cost to ask for a Core i5-2500K?

What graphics card hits the price/performance sweet spot and can handle COH Ultra Mode?

Is 4 GB enough RAM?

I requested the 2 dvd drives. In the old days, there was a distinction between fast dvd drives and RW drives, so that I would get one of each. Are RW drives now so fast that it is unnecessary to get a speedier non-RW drive? One of my 2 DVD drives broke on my current computer, so I like the idea of a backup even if I were to get 2 identical DVD drives.

I see that the quote is missing a monitor. My current monitor is 4 years old 21". Should I get a new monitor? What specs?

I also told the shop that I wanted a good cooling system, but I see that the quote is silent. Any suggestions as to what would be a good cooling system/case?

I know that power supply is important, but I'm not up to speed on what is a good power supply.

In the past I've always trusted the computer maker as to things like motherboards. Sound quality is a low priority for me.

Thanks for your help.

No. Please look up Father Xmas guide and builds. You do not need more than one Dvd RW drives. You can get a better card than an four plus year old card plus a bigger hard drive.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=124080

Here the link to help you out.

You can buy the parts and build it yourself for a whole lot cheaper. Check out Father X-Mas guide to building a PC. I followed it and saved myself a ton of cash and got the system I wanted.

Poof

You rang?

A couple of questions about that config.

First, what model is the motherboard, more specifically the chipset used. The reason I ask is the H6x series motherboard chipset won't allow a K series CPU to be overclocked, which is the main attraction of a K series CPU, while a P67 or Z68 will. If you aren't overclocking then the difference between an i5-2400 and an i5-2500K is 200 MHz and better integrated video which you won't be using.

Second is the power supply that's being used. The amount of reliable power it can provide at 12 volts dictates how high end the video card can be.

4GB of memory is fine unless you are planning to run multiple copies of the game or a boatload of other programs while playing. CoH like any 32-bit app will still only use a maximum of 2GB.

The weakness in the parts you did list is the video card. The 9500GT is several generations old and simply can't support Ultramode on minimum except maybe at a very low resolution but even then I seriously doubt it. Sounds more like your repair shop is trying to get rid of old stock. Also the low end card is what leads me to suspect a weak, inexpensive or older designed power supply.

I look for a couple of things in a power supply.

First it needs to be 80Plus rated because to qualify for that it's tested and passed at it's rated wattage. You will know for certain that a 500 watt PSU will be able to put out 500 watts continuously.

Second I want to see the maximum wattage at 12 volts to be at least 80% of the total wattage of the power supply. For example the Antec Earthwatts Green EA-430D 430 watt PSU can put out 384 watts at 12 volts. A cheap or older designed power supply won't even list the 12 volt wattage and can provide a lot of wattage at 5 and 3.3 volts but not as much at 12 volts. Today's systems will use 50 watts of 5 and 3.3 volt power combined with the bulk of power needed at 12 volts.

Third, and this is simply a rule of thumb, a good quality PSU has a list price of $15-20 per 100 watts. If a 450 watt PSU lists for only $20 and isn't on sale, then there is a reason it's only $20.

Doing a quick and dirty search at NewEgg of Sandy Bridge systems with graphics that can handle Ultramode at medium resolutions or better gives me this. I didn't bother filtering on price. I would point out that unless it has a K series CPU, it's likely using an H6x based motherboard. However you can fix that by going to iBUYPOWER or CyberpowerPC and customize a system that uses a P67 or Z68.

(5) Monitor: I am thinking of between 22" and 24". I guess I will ask the shop what it recommends.
(6) Cooling System & Case: I want a good cooling system. I guess I will ask the shop what it recommends.
(7) Power supply: 80Plus rated, maximum wattage at 12 volts to be at least 80% of the total wattage of the power supply.
(8) Motherboard: I'm not tech savvy enough to follow your above explanation. In simple terms, what should I tell the shop about the motherboard to use for this build? Is it that the motherboard should use a P67 or Z68?

Hope you really trust your shop Looking at the OP it would be like asking a used car salesman what a good used car would be.

5. Monitor: There are lots of cheap monitors out there I don't like them because I prefer 16:10 vs the 16:9 which is pretty much the bulk of what is for sale. Do a little research on this. The Dell U2410 is a great 16:10 IPS monitor but goes in the $500+ range. Your going to stare at the thing for a long time, don't be cheap out it.

6. If you are not going to Overclock, the stock heatsink and fan are enough for the CPU. There are plenty of $30 3rd party parts that do a very good job and are much quieter.

7. Power Supply. The Heart of your computer. Don't make the mistake of buying something cheap here. Get something from a reputable company. Like Antec or Seasonic.

8. It would depend on if you are Overclocking or not. Sounds like you are not. In which case the H67 is more than good enough.

Given some of the parts from the shop that were suggested such as....
1GB EVGA GeForce 9500 GT Video Card
·Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600)
·Two DVD-RW Drives

I would not trust that person's hardware advice at all....I'm sure they would be more than happy to sell you an ECS motherboard, with a phoney 80 plus certified PSU with old slow RAM.

Do a little more reseach before making an impulse buy. Its a pretty big investment of funds. I'd hate to see someone piss away money on awful equipment. There are lots of good hardware folks like "Santa" to help you.

Honestly, from the look of the parts and the cost you were originally quoted, they were building themselves a hefty profit margin.

The more I read this the more convinced I am that the shop see's a "sucker" and is trying to rip you off big time. I would never talk or do business with them again.

First off, always request the part numbers so you can price for yourself using third party websites like Newegg.com. You would be surprised at how many techs buy the parts from newegg which you have full access to as well. Sure, some techs may use other vendors but newegg is very competitive when ordering parts for a system build.

Secondly, does the price they quoted you include the labor to build the system, install the OS and transfer your old data to the new computer?

I'll agree with the comments about your repair shop, they're trying to really screw you with 3-4 year old parts while charging you for new, higher end parts. I would strongly suggest you run, don't walk away from that shop and either do it yourself or find someplace reputable. That shop has proven by the system they quoted you that they cannot be trusted.

Thanks for all of the helpful comments. Part of my motivation to get a new computer now was the discovery of a shop I could trust -- it appears that my assessment on its trustworthiness was slightly over-optimistic.

My computer is 4 years old and my 8800 GTX was just replaced by a used replacement part. In the couple of days I've had it back the computer seems to run OK. If it were you, would you figure that you were on "borrowed time" and proceed to buy a new computer as soon as possible, or would you wait until the old computer showed signs of serious problems before looking for a new computer?

Seriously... while I would charge a premium to assemble a computer for someone else, I would give a variety of options, give the pros and cons of each, and let the customer choose. I wouldn't just pull whatever parts are available off the shelf in the back. On the video card specifically, I have to commend them for recommending EVGA, but downrate them for picking the 9500 GT.

Granted, they have a physical store, which means they do have a higher overhead that they have to cover, but.. looking at the proposed build and the cost, it's not worth going with them. It may be cheaper to get the parts yourself, take photos of the parts, and then bring it all to them to let them do the assemble and burn in.

Then of course, open up the case there in the store and verify that they used YOUR parts for your computer.

If you wait til the machine breaks down, you might be like my dad who is still using a 486 DX 25. No joke he still uses the thing.

Of course he uses my old Core 2 Duo for that "silly internet stuff" but most of the time he's there on the 486 using all dos based programs.

starcloud: I bet if he opened up the machine it would not have any of the parts he bought.

void: if you properly care for a machine and use good quality parts, they tend to last a long time. Electronics keep getting faster, cheaper and smaller. Most of my older equipment goes to family members who need a PC. My sister is still using my Pentium 150 (OC'ed to 166) with Win 98 still. (Yeah, I have family members who like old stuff I guess) She uses it to play Solitare and Sudoku.

Oldest part on my computer....a $14.95 Keyboard which is 12 years old.

The repair shop that sells parts near me (near is 25 miles away) almost exclusively stock Gigabyte H67 microATX motherboards (last I checked a few months ago). Now if I remember correctly, an H67 based motherboard can only handle up to DDR3-1333 with all faster speeds locked out. If that's the same case with Void's shop then I see no problem with Kingston ValueRam DDR3-1333. At least Kingston is a known brand. Big whoop it doesn't have a heat spreader. Except for extreme overclocking of memory (actual overclocking, not just spec faster) they're as useful as a spoiler on an AMC Pacer.

On the subject of old PCs, I finally was able to convince my folks to replace their PII 450MHz, Win 98 SE machine with something more modern. For them a clearance priced ($400) HP P6710F is good enough for them. I was pleasantly surprised by the integrated HD 4200. Yes it can't do Ultra Mode but at 1024x768 I was seeing 25 FPS in PI with medium graphics preset, however any AA kills the framerate but that isn't surprising for an integrated solution without dedicated memory. Didn't see the two active cores get above 50% each. Zoning was only 10 to 15 seconds. It's an Athlon II X4 640 with 4GB of DDR3-1333 and a 1TB Seagate 7200.12 drive running Win 7 64-bit Home. No way I could build a similar machine for less.

Now back to Void's questions.

I wouldn't worry about overclocking. The current i5 Sandy Bridge quads are the fastest gaming CPUs out there right now. The i5-2400 is only 4% slower than a i5-2500K (when it isn't overclocked) and I'm willing to bet the mark up at your shop between the two is a lot more than 4%. Then there's the better 3rd party CPU cooler you would need if you were going to overclock plus sizing the power supply a tad bigger for the extra wattage an overclocked CPU would use, since a CPU voltage increase is normally needed. Honestly, for a non do it yourselfer, "just make it go", computer user, it's not worth the hassle.

Memory is cheap. $10-15 a GB. 8GB sounds impressive over 4GB but the actual cost to the builder is very little and does next to nothing to gaming performance. It costs them a whole lot more to put in good video card and a power supply to support it but to the average Joe 8GB of memory sounds more impressive than a high quality 650 watt power supply.

As for case cooling, it depends on the case but I prefer at least one intake and one exhaust fan. A lot of newer cases with bottom mounted power supplies may also have a top exhaust fan. Also the bigger the fan, the slower it needs to spin to move the same amount of air and the slower it spins, less noise is generated. May not be an issue for you but some people prefer relative quite while simply browsing.

Can't help with monitors. Just to many models that change with the seasons. I would only suggest you actually see the model in action than order it sight unseen.

Motherboard brands that I like in no particular order, Gigabyte, MSI, Asus, Biostar and ASRock (think of them as the value line of Asus). Not a fan of ECS or Foxconn.

Mice and keyboards are a personal preference matter.

My nephew will be getting my C2D E6600 to replace the P4 based dell he's using. That Dell is awful I never tried to think about how cheap I can make a new PC for but yeah $400 is pretty tough when you start with a $100 windows 7 tax. $300 to make something workable?

Based on the OP, I would probably suggest not OC'ing. Its really a question on price. An H67 is probably good enough even if 1333 is max memory speed. If you makes you feel better then go ahead and spend for the P67 MB and K CPU. 1600 memory is the same cost as 1333 so that isn't a factor. It would really be a question of forking out extra money for the board to support faster memory.

Void, how much do you care about price? I would assume like most consumers, you want to get the most value for your money.