Quote:
My guess would be WP would benefit the most on a higher up costing build. I'm just not sure it will be that more survivable to make it worth rerolling unless the /sr is already on the lower level side.
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Originally Posted by Shawn Sage
I'm rerolling my main, a Claws/SR, as either a Claws/WP or Claws/Regen. Like the title says, given the same budget (basically unlimited for anything short of purples or PvP IOs, and a purple set or two is possible currently), which can take the most punishment while still dealing good damage?
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/WP is EASIER to survive with than /Regen, since the Regen playstyle is very demanding at the high end. I wouldn't say that WP is more survivable, though.
That said, with all the defense debuff, regen debuff, and end drain/recovery debuff running around in the level 50 game, I find my claw/SR dies much less than my KM/WP or Katana/Regen does. So I'm not sure you're necessarily improving your survivability much by changing from SR to WP or Regen.
Sure, /SR is a one-trick pony... but it's a very good trick.
It's not a "scorched earth" reroll, the /SR will still be around. It's a "same character, different name" reroll, mainly for some SG RP reasons.
The remainder of the reason I wanted to do this is because since I've come back to the game (early this year), she's felt really squishy. Before GR, which was when I played last, she tore through +0/x8 anything* without a care. Now, even with a full load of T3 Incarnate abilities and a T4 Alpha, she dies in that same normal +0/x8 content. I'm sure it's a perception issue, I'm not one of the "accuracy is broken" conspiracy theorists. But this "reroll" will give me the chance to see what he could be with a different set, and maybe that will help with my perception issues.
All that said, I'm opening my question to expand to all scrapper secondaries. Given the same budget listed in the OP, which is the toughest when paired with Claws?
*Obviously DE was the exception, but I found myself without issues when facing Nemesis back then...not so much now.
Just the thread I needed....
Altitis has gotten me...as usual. Just built a Claws/Invuln Scrapper. I've never gotten a claws Scrapper past low 20's. Gonna try another run. Will /Invuln be tough enough on a Scrapper for the end content, including trials? My guess is with enough +rchg I can get perma-Dull Pain, which should help. Any thoughts on this? Also...which claws powers are just "meh" and skippable?
50 Inv/SS Tank, 50 Inv/EM Tank, 50 FA/SS Tank, 50 Shield/SS Tank, 50 WP/SS Tank, 50 Dark/Dark Tank, 50 EM/Elec Brute, 50 SS/FA Brute, 50 SS/SR Brute, 50 Fire/Kin Controller, 50 Plant/Storm Controller, 50 Earth/Therm Controller, 50 Necro/Dark MM, 50 Bots/FF MM, 50 Elec/SD Scrapper, 50 Arch/MM Blaster, 50 Emp/Psi Defender
How much you can do with Invulnerability depends some on budget. You can do some pretty impressive things on a high budget, and reasonably good things without. It's a very solid secondary. It should be just fine for incarnate content, though the closest I have to any personal experience with that is knowing a mid range build Invuln Tanker doing the trials with no problem, which isn't really the same thing.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I'm not too concerned about the budget, and I farm tip missions for the Hero Merits. I can do what it takes. My guess is that +rchg and getting near soft-capped is the way to go on this.
50 Inv/SS Tank, 50 Inv/EM Tank, 50 FA/SS Tank, 50 Shield/SS Tank, 50 WP/SS Tank, 50 Dark/Dark Tank, 50 EM/Elec Brute, 50 SS/FA Brute, 50 SS/SR Brute, 50 Fire/Kin Controller, 50 Plant/Storm Controller, 50 Earth/Therm Controller, 50 Necro/Dark MM, 50 Bots/FF MM, 50 Elec/SD Scrapper, 50 Arch/MM Blaster, 50 Emp/Psi Defender
Quote:
Yep, that's the way to go, or at least the way I would go.
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Originally Posted by Achilles6
I'm not too concerned about the budget, and I farm tip missions for the Hero Merits. I can do what it takes. My guess is that +rchg and getting near soft-capped is the way to go on this.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Swipe and Taunt. Shockwave can cause issues with Invincibility due to it wanting to be surrounded, but it's workable.
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Originally Posted by Achilles6
Also...which claws powers are just "meh" and skippable?
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If you're worried about survivability, then regen and willpower aren't going to make you feel better. A super reflexes scrapper built for soft-capped defenses and high hitpoints is going to outlive a willpower scrapper and a regen scrapper 10 out of 10 times.
There's other good reasons to roll up a new toon, so I'm not saying don't do it. I honestly wish it wasn't this way, and I've spent a lot of time the last 4-5 years trying to create builds that proved this wrong. Unfortunately, if your level 50 survivability were your only reason for starting fresh, I suspect you're going to be really disappointed with regen and willpower.
I don't know if your /SR has all the HP accolades, and what it's build is, but I suspect that's a better place to look for improvement rather then rerolling.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
I have played all three at the high end, with full purples. With the incarnates powers, one of which is a really good click heal. I have to give it to /SR in normal content, and /WP in incarnate content.
The incarnate trials can be pretty rough on an /SR toon. Not only is the soft cap increased, but all of the mobs do -def. It can get painful fast, Werner has posted multiple ways to protect against that though.
There are multiple problems I had with /SR though. For one it blooms really late, like at 35 was when I started feeling good about it. The other was that when it did hit the soft cap it got boring because the game became so easy, with incarnate powers that would only get worse for me.
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Quote:
My Kat/sr does alright considering he's still at 50(+0). I figure with the level bumps running the trials will be a non-issue. Certainly not any worse for it compared to other builds. Note, this is a /sr with Aid Self.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
The incarnate trials can be pretty rough on an /SR toon. Not only is the soft cap increased, but all of the mobs do -def. It can get painful fast, Werner has posted multiple ways to protect against that though.
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I rerolled from regen to will and I would say that regen is more survivable but I prefer will because it's less clickey.
Quote:
During pre-beta I tested most of the scrapper secondaries (Fire and Inv excluded) with dream builds. Really, /Elec felt more survivable than anything else. I know it was not one of the OP's options though.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
My Kat/sr does alright considering he's still at 50(+0). I figure with the level bumps running the trials will be a non-issue. Certainly not any worse for it compared to other builds. Note, this is a /sr with Aid Self.
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Quote:
Have you seen my Katana/Regen thread? Regen has taken a lot of flak recently, including from me, and I wanted to see if one could be competitive in I20. My initial salvo was a soft-capped near perma Hasten build that could juggle Barrier, Shadow Meld and Moment of Glory to be over the incarnate soft cap most of the time. With the community's help, things just got better from there.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
If you're worried about survivability, then regen and willpower aren't going to make you feel better. A super reflexes scrapper built for soft-capped defenses and high hitpoints is going to outlive a willpower scrapper and a regen scrapper 10 out of 10 times.
There's other good reasons to roll up a new toon, so I'm not saying don't do it. I honestly wish it wasn't this way, and I've spent a lot of time the last 4-5 years trying to create builds that proved this wrong. Unfortunately, if your level 50 survivability were your only reason for starting fresh, I suspect you're going to be really disappointed with regen and willpower. |
I'm not saying it's the best combination around, but I do think it can be competitive.
That's Katana, though, and of course I'm leaning on Divine Avalanche. Not so sure about Claws, though as I recall John Printemps did pretty well with one.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Did I? The main protection is just to push your defense to 59%+, though with all the buffs flying around, it may not be necessary. It kind of depends on how self-sufficient you want to be and how many purples you refuse to use. Defense debuffs aren't much of a problem on Super Reflexes, but you can give yourself another 1-3% defense if concerned. Not that 59%-62% defense is trivial, even for Super Reflexes, but it should be doable.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
The incarnate trials can be pretty rough on an /SR toon. Not only is the soft cap increased, but all of the mobs do -def. It can get painful fast, Werner has posted multiple ways to protect against that though.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I thought you had, but it may of consisted of what you just posted. |
Originally Posted by Werner
Did I? The main protection is just to push your defense to 59%+, though with all the buffs flying around, it may not be necessary. It kind of depends on how self-sufficient you want to be and how many purples you refuse to use. Defense debuffs aren't much of a problem on Super Reflexes, but you can give yourself another 1-3% defense if concerned. Not that 59%-62% defense is trivial, even for Super Reflexes, but it should be doable.
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Types of Swords
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Quote:
I read that thread. Why play a /regen toon that survives incarnate content doing at best 140 dps when you can play an /SR toon that survives incarnate content doing 280+ dps? There was a lot of really neat stuff in that thread... but you can apply it to other toons besides regen (and dark) for good results without using katana as a crutch.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Have you seen my Katana/Regen thread? Regen has taken a lot of flak recently, including from me, and I wanted to see if one could be competitive in I20. My initial salvo was a soft-capped near perma Hasten build that could juggle Barrier, Shadow Meld and Moment of Glory to be over the incarnate soft cap most of the time. With the community's help, things just got better from there.
I'm not saying it's the best combination around, but I do think it can be competitive. That's Katana, though, and of course I'm leaning on Divine Avalanche. Not so sure about Claws, though as I recall John Printemps did pretty well with one. |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Quote:
Early on, /regen is rather awesome compared to other sets. WP has the issue that it has no real "oh crap" button, but it gets into less of those situations. As you level and IOs become a factor other sets catch up to /regen. Best feeling ever on a low level character was Claws/regen at 18.|
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I rerolled from regen to will and I would say that regen is more survivable but I prefer will because it's less clickey.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
During pre-beta I tested most of the scrapper secondaries (Fire and Inv excluded) with dream builds. Really, /Elec felt more survivable than anything else. I know it was not one of the OP's options though.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
The incarnate trials can be pretty rough on an /SR toon. Not only is the soft cap increased, but all of the mobs do -def. It can get painful fast, Werner has posted multiple ways to protect against that though.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werner
Did I? The main protection is just to push your defense to 59%+, though with all the buffs flying around, it may not be necessary. It kind of depends on how self-sufficient you want to be and how many purples you refuse to use. Defense debuffs aren't much of a problem on Super Reflexes, but you can give yourself another 1-3% defense if concerned. Not that 59%-62% defense is trivial, even for Super Reflexes, but it should be doable.
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I had some free time at lunch, and I wanted to see what this might look like.
I don't play around much with SR, so there might be some glaring mistakes somewhere.
Accolades should be turned on.
It assumes T4 Barrier Core for the permanent minimum of +5% DEF/RES to all as well as Nerve Core Paragon for the boost to DEF.
End consumption looks kind of high, so I wanted to do it without maneuvers.
No idea what attack chain it would be running, or what kind of DPS it could do - and I paid no order to the selection of powers.
Code:
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Generally find between league buffs, team buffs and inspires that I rarely have to worry about the Incarnate soft cap. Not worry enough that I'm generally running Rebirth and not Barrier (Incarnate soft-capped with regen rates at or above 100 hp/sec is insanely survivable). Still working on getting the Shield Walls, she's very survivable with LotG sets in toggles that getting the Shield Walls is no where near a priority any more, though cracking 2000 max health still makes me drool.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.94
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
GRETA-001 MedicineFighting (v2.00.i19 Incarnate): Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- SW-Def(A), SW-Def/EndRdx(9), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 2: Slash -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Hectmb-Dam%(25), Achilles-ResDeb%(45)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 6: Spin -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 8: Follow Up -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Agile -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 14: Boxing -- T'Death-Dam%(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 18: Focus -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(19), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Apoc-Dam%(21)
Level 20: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(23), TtmC'tng-ResDam(29), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(34), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 24: Aid Other -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(29), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Armgdn-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(42), Numna-Heal/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Weave -- SW-Def(A), SW-Def/EndRdx(33), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Lucky -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33)
Level 35: Evasion -- SW-Def(A), SW-Def/EndRdx(36), SW-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Shockwave -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(39), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Ragnrk-Dmg(40)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- SW-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(48), P'Shift-End%(48), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48), Numna-Heal(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- HO:Enzym(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx(40), RgnTis-Heal/Rchg(46), RgnTis-Regen+(46)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(40), P'Shift-End%(46)
Code:
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Quote:
It is possible to get perma-Dull Pain for a Claws/Invulnerability Scrapper. A few other things too, such as softcapped S/L/F/C/E/N Defense, almost hardcapped S/L Resist, etc. I play a DM/Invulnerability Scrapper on the Trials and it's a blast! I've paired my Invulnerability builds with the Rebirth Destiny that gives Regeneration - that way my Invulns have capped HP, Regeneration, 45% (and up) S/L/F/C/E/N Defense, and 73.1% S/L Resist (1.9% below the hardcap). Layered damage mitigation for the win!|
Originally Posted by Achilles6
Just the thread I needed....
Altitis has gotten me...as usual. Just built a Claws/Invuln Scrapper. I've never gotten a claws Scrapper past low 20's. Gonna try another run. Will /Invuln be tough enough on a Scrapper for the end content, including trials? My guess is with enough +rchg I can get perma-Dull Pain, which should help. Any thoughts on this? Also...which claws powers are just "meh" and skippable? |
This is the tentative build I've got for my Claws/Invulnerability Scrapper while I'm leveling her up:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Arcane Hunter: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
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Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
I can't really look at the build right now, and I'm not really anything of a claws or SR expert.|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
Generally find between league buffs, team buffs and inspires that I rarely have to worry about the Incarnate soft cap. Not worry enough that I'm generally running Rebirth and not Barrier (Incarnate soft-capped with regen rates at or above 100 hp/sec is insanely survivable). Still working on getting the Shield Walls, she's very survivable with LotG sets in toggles that getting the Shield Walls is no where near a priority any more, though cracking 2000 max health still makes me drool.
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I don't really think its necessary to reach incarnate softcap, I just wanted to see how "gimped" the build would be - it actually came out decent enough IMO, although you lose out on the top end chain without the extra recharge you could slot or by taking spiritual core for example.
Quote:
As with all survivability-boosting powers, you'd use Divine Avalanche only as necessary. If your Tanker has things covered, the final build can run the top Katana DPS chain with two purple procs and both -resist procs. You'd do drastically more than 140 DPS in that case, though it'll only crack 280 with Interface. But yes, your DPS will suffer when you get aggro on the incarnate trials, because you're going to be using Divine Avalanche (and clicking other things instead of attacks).|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I read that thread. Why play a /regen toon that survives incarnate content doing at best 140 dps when you can play an /SR toon that survives incarnate content doing 280+ dps? There was a lot of really neat stuff in that thread... but you can apply it to other toons besides regen (and dark) for good results without using katana as a crutch.
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Keep in mind that you may need to make sacrifices to hit 59% defense on Super Reflexes. It's possible that recharge for top DPS chains will be one of those sacrifices. I haven't tried it yet myself, so I'm not sure. Deus' build didn't seem to sacrifice all that much recharge, though, so maybe it's not bad.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
With my DB/WP, I'm quite enjoying the Rebirth for a click heal and +Regen I think it's been better for my survival than Barrier. Fitting the concept even better helps alot.
Though...since Ninjitsu hasn't been ported yet, I think I'll be heading over to that other Melee AT for my namesake for an Agile Regeny type >_>
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I'm rerolling my main, a Claws/SR, as either a Claws/WP or Claws/Regen. Like the title says, given the same budget (basically unlimited for anything short of purples or PvP IOs, and a purple set or two is possible currently), which can take the most punishment while still dealing good damage?