Ice Armor for Scrappers?


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
I can't imagine Defenders having Fire Blast! Defenders shouldn't be immolators!

See how weak that argument was?
I too want Fire Blast on Defenders.

Unique my posterior! AT mechanics (Inherent and modifiers) are what separate them from each other. Why do you think I play a DM/Inv Scrapper when I could play a superior DM/Inv Brute? Because of the Scrapper AT mechanics!

Ice, ice, baby!



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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
You sure you don't want breast melee?
I would suffer that.


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Posted

So Brutes don't get Hibernate in their Patron Powers, correct? Only Scrappers and Stalkers? I'm wondering what kind of T9 Scrappers/Stalkers could have with Ice Armor. Taking a look and not counting the T9, the set has Typed Defense (duh), -Movement and -Recharge Debuffs, Damage Aura, Dull Pain-type power, and an Endurance management power that also gives Typed Defense.

Hibernate is a different sort of survive-the-impossible sort of T9 in that it will bring you back to full HP and Endurance, but you are unable to do anything while the power is active. I don't play Tanks, but I do play Brutes and the T9 seems like (from an uneducated point of view) a not-so-useful for Tank ability, but could be useful here and there for Brutes. I'm not sure I'd use such an ability on a Scrapper or a Stalker. That's just my playstyle talking though.

So a replacement for the T9 for Scrappers/Stalkers would be something that strikes the of not better than Hibernate but also not worse than it. Hard to do and I can't imagine what kind of power it would be. It could go the way of Strength of Will/One with the Shield and give Resists and something else, but that may be a "better" power.

Another way the T9 could go is the mutation Conserve Power from Electric Armor had into Energize. The PPP Hibernate would stay the same, but the T9 from Ice Armor could change into a short burst Regeneration and Recovery power. Not sure how much the existing people with Ice Armor Hibernate would feel about that. Some may love it and others loath it. Changing a T9 power from one thing to another may not be the best thing to do.

Last idea I'll throw out there is that it could be a self Revive, like the Winter Event Ice revive that is already in the game. I forget what it is called. I'm not a fan of T9 revive powers, but it's a possibility.

Just thought I'd throw out some ideas for discussion. The set may still never make it to Scrappers, but I'm still excited there's a possibility.

/ramble off


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Posted

Side comment - I haven't read comics in years; I heard Ice Man is dead? I hope not - if I remember right, he was an omega level mutant like Jean Grey - like crazy powerful.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
I don't want tanks to have Katana and I don't want scrappers to have ice. It's all cool with me whatever you guys want, but if we voted [ha] I'd vote to keep ice with Tanks, Kat with Scrap, but Geez, get fire blasting over to defenders.

Edited to add: And Brutes, they need a unique powerset. They have nothing unique.
I wanted to come back to this.

Stalkers have Katana and Broadsword. They also have Regeneration. Scrappers have nothing unique in their Primary or Secondary powersets. Just sayin'.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
Scrappers have nothing unique in their Primary or Secondary powersets. Just sayin'.
I doubt they ever will. Issue after issue, the devs have said several times that they want to make powersets that benefit multiple archetypes whenever possible. Mastermind's demons are an obvious exception.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
I doubt they ever will. Issue after issue, the devs have said several times that they want to make powersets that benefit multiple archetypes whenever possible. Mastermind's demons are an obvious exception.
And I'm glad for it. There are so many set combinations I want to try on Scrappers, Stalkers, and Brutes but can't just yet.


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Posted

Bring Ice armor to scrapp, stalks and brute and change Hibernate from PPP. Changes have been done before, so...
Simple


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
It's not lack of imagination. Just wanting some ATs to be unique.

If a person couldn't see the little icon, they wouldn't be able to tell scrappers from Tanks from Brutes 99% of the time. The other 1% someone has ice. Or if we see an Axe it's not a scrapper. A katana, it's not a Brute or Tank.

I don't want tanks to have Katana and I don't want scrappers to have ice. It's all cool with me whatever you guys want, but if we voted [ha] I'd vote to keep ice with Tanks, Kat with Scrap, but Geez, get fire blasting over to defenders.

Edited to add: And Brutes, they need a unique powerset. They have nothing unique.
Amen.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mc Carbonara View Post
Bring Ice armor to scrapp, stalks and brute and change Hibernate from PPP. Changes have been done before, so...
Simple
While I would be okay with this, I think many a player would not be, for those who took Hibernate as their epic and would thusly lose it if it was taken out.

I'd still rather have Superior Conditioning in Body Mastery than Conserve Power, I just don't see it happening.

As for what to replace Hibernate with for Stalkers/Scrappers...

+Resist/+Rec/+Regen Sow/OwtS clone (ie fixed recharge).

Hibernate really isn't terrible for holding aggro. If I had their aggro before using Hibernate before, I had it while in it, and I never had to stay in Hibernate for the full duration, so I could break out of it and put more aggro out.

Of course, with some ATs able to rip off the aggro of two taunt auras, taunt and punch-voke, well, let me say Ice Armor isnt the aggro king anymore. :/


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
Mastermind's primaries are an obvious exception.
Fixed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mc Carbonara View Post
Bring Ice armor to scrapp, stalks and brute and change Hibernate from PPP. Changes have been done before, so...
Simple
Would that be fair to those Scrappers/Stalkers that don't want to use Ice Armor, but still want Hibernate?


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Posted

About ice for brutes, I remember, years ago, that it had been tried, but messed with fury too much to be worth it.
Was there an update on that?

Also, Katana isn't unique to scrappers. Stalkers also have it (cleverly disguised under the name of Ninja Blade).

Personally, I think the more options, the better, so I'm all for ice being spread around a couple (read: scrappers and, if possible, brutes) archetypes.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narkor View Post
About ice for brutes, I remember, years ago, that it had been tried, but messed with fury too much to be worth it.
Was there an update on that?
Getting a solid amount of Fury after the latest Brute update is fairly trivial now. I think originally Ice Armor (and/or Ice Melee) was nixed for Brutes because of how much it prevented Fury generation.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
Would that be fair to those Scrappers/Stalkers that don't want to use Ice Armor, but still want Hibernate?
The fact is it was a really bad design to put Hibernate in PPP for Stalk (and so for Scrapp). It's a key power of a Tank Armor set. Give it for "free" to a more scrapping AT is bad idea from the beginning.


 

Posted

a key power that is often skipped? wut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=260718
^Professional Katana/regen build thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elegost View Post
a key power that is often skipped? wut?
Pre-IO or incarnate stuff, it wasn't.
Now anything is skippable...


 

Posted

I don't frequent the Tanker boards or play them much, but why would a Tanker use Hibernate? You can't do anything while that's up, right? I guess if you slot it up you'd only need five or ten seconds in there, and probably wouldn't lose much aggro in that time. Is that considered acceptable? I really think I'd want to manage my healing and endurance in some way that didn't require me to take myself out of the fight, but I guess I can see the appeal. Low hit points and out of endurance, click, five or ten seconds later you're perfect. And as far as keeping aggro, Hibernate is probably better than dying.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I don't frequent the Tanker boards or play them much, but why would a Tanker use Hibernate?
It's an "oh crap" button that's there for when you need it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
It's an "oh crap" button that's there for when you need it.
Even though you can fully recover with Hibernate, I still consider it a crash whenever the power is used. Whether it be Dark Star, Inferno, or Hibernate - whatever prevents me from attacking after I use it is something that I avoid. At least with a nuke or something like Unstoppable you can time a use of an Endurance Inspiration/Ageless Destiny to get back in the fight right away. Hibernate is a self Hold.

Hoo boy, I remember when nukes and T9's like Unstoppable would have a long-duration stun along with the crash too. So glad that excessive component was removed.


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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

 

Posted

I just don't really get why anyone would say no to any new, fun, working, not overpowered new options. Especially since ice armor is one of the lesser played sets in the game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BL00DBATH View Post
I just don't really get why anyone would say no to any new, fun, working, not overpowered new options. Especially since ice armor is one of the lesser played sets in the game.
Indeed. What would be the point to making it unique to Tanks anyways? Has anyone given thought that many players don't enjoy playing Tanks?

The set is underplayed, looks like fun, and works. Let others play it on an AT that they enjoy. Leaving it on Tanks is in no way some sort of golden ticket to get me to play one.


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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
Indeed. What would be the point to making it unique to Tanks anyways? Has anyone given thought that many players don't enjoy playing Tanks?

The set is underplayed, looks like fun, and works. Let others play it on an AT that they enjoy. Leaving it on Tanks is in no way some sort of golden ticket to get me to play one.
It was the low damage of Ice Melee that really ended up with me pushing my way to 50 and then shelving my Ice/ice Tanker. That and seeing the sheilders pull aggro off my tank like she wasnt even trying to hold aggro!


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Posted

And simply put, Ice Melee would not be low damage on a Scrapper. Those fast attacks amount for a nice amount of Critical Hits. Also, the slows would be nice for mitigation, on say, an Ice/Fire scrapper.