Dual Blades - worth it?

I might be... As you can probably tell from that list, I'm just very fond of the set in general. XD

Mine have been pretty similar over-all, with small differences here and there. Some sets I do prefer the non-stalker versions of (I like my Elec tanks more than their stalker counterpart, for instance-) while it's the other way around for others (I've had a LOT more fun with my two KinMelee stalkers than I've had with Solace or Winter, my KM scrap and tank-).

Like anything else, I suspect the only way to find out what really works for any of us is just to try it out.

SS>NS>AB>NS is better in DPS because of NS's shorter animation time than PS.

I think some of DB's problems on Stalkers is multiple...

1) No Typhoon's Edge. This is my biggest complaint really. I love it's animation and don't care for 1K Cuts animation as much. Lack of TE puts me off the set on Stalkers.

2) One of the combo's is BU>Assassin Strike>Placate for the Empower combo. One might think this isn't so bad, but it is when you can't get back into hide mid combat without using Placate first.

So one can only really use this combo when starting combat. That's about it.

3) BU>Assassin Strike>AS is the sweep combo? Okay, now since I can't use Empower again because of Empower ending with Placate, this combo really just became a 4 part combo, if I want to use this midcombat (which Sweep helps save your butt with the knockdown) I need to lead with Placate.

Here's the problem with this thought...multiple enemies around, Assassin Strike interrupted because you took a hit damage, so this combo has just now been ruined for you, because Placate only effects one target, nevermind the group of enemies you were TRYING to knockdown.

One could think to use Weaken Combo for the -tohit, but the -tohit isn't enough.

4) So we go to Attack Vitals. Now while I admit, I have no idea how much the DoT adds to one's damage. Attack Vitals on it's own is not it's best DPS chain.

NS > SS > NS > AS = 114 DPS

Attack Vitals Combo > Sweep Strike = 94.21 DPS + AVC's DoT (Like I said I don't know what that amounts to) maybe it tacks on an additional 20 DPS (doubtful)

Attack Vitals Combo > Alabating Strike = 90.96 DPS + AVC's DoT which means using SS is the better option for both DPS and AOE purposes, but I thought I'd show what it is with AS.

Let's not forget on Stalkers Attack Vitals is a Single Target oriented combo, with Scrappers/Brutes/Tankers the AVC ends with SS for the DoT to effect multiple targets.

5) So you're left with 2 Combo's that can be used often and no choice around it. Weaken and Attack Vitals.

The Problem? They both us Power Slice. Soooo...*sigh*

Attack Vitals Combo > Sweeping Strike > 1K Cuts seems the way to go when going for use of a combo and not just going NS>AS>NS>SS for some AOE fun.

BU>Assassin Strike>Placate -> SS>NS>AS>NS -> Repeat untill possibly hitting Placate>BU>Assassin Stike -> AS>NS>SS>NS to return to the normal chain, but to throw in a Sweep Combo.

6) Dual Blades seems to be build around Blidning Feint for additional damage as well, which of course Stalkers don't get. It's a lot like Claws without Follow Up.


So, let's go back to Attack Vitals. Assuming it actually gives an additional 20 DPS (again I'm doubtful) with the DoT to just match the AS/NS/SS/NS DPS chain, it still loses, because you throw in IOs, and the non combo chain can slot two -Resist Procs and 2 Purple Procs.


Now, this isn't to say one can't enjoy the set. But I have to think one thing...if you're the type to hate Dual Pistols because you think it's lacking. I can't see why you wouldn't think the same of Dual Blades on Stalkers.

I say this as someone who would roll a DB/NIN Stalker right now with all it's shortcomings (or what I consider shortcomings anyways) if it just had Typhoon's Edge.

Oops, ya

Yeah... Typhoon would be nice to have. I'm fond of that one, too, and do miss it sometimes.

Having a bucket-load of Recharge helps some with the combos, since Placate, BU and Assassin's will be available more often... but if you're playing DB with an eye towards using combos as often as you possibly can in every fight, a Scrap's definitely the way to go. They've got stalkers beaten pretty soundly there.

That said, how big a deal that is depends on how you want to play. My scraps are absolutely combo-monkeys... With Ash in particular, I use Sweep like there's no tomorrow. ('Love watching whole groups of goons bounce like little villainous super-balls with him around. XD) I find myself not relying on them as heavily with the stalkers. I typically start with Sweep, move on to Weaken and then just pick them up again if a good situation presents itself.

That's just it, you really don't have the option to even use the combo's much on Stalkers.

Like I pointed out, one combo can only be used when invis from the start, and on a fast moving team, I may not be rehidden by the time I get to the next mob.

So right there, Empower is weasted. I can't get back into to hide without standing around and doing nothing, and since Empower is tied to using Placate after BU>AS I'm screwed with it.

Alabating Strike, one of the better attacks is tied to only one combo...Sweep...which is of course tied to BU and AS.

Weakon, one of the worst combo's for effects (imo anyways, I really don't find it useful), is tied to all the AOE attacks? *Sigh*


Ways to improve the set is to rearrange the combos...

AS>NS>SS = Attack Vitals
Placate>BU>Assassin Strike = Empower
VS>AS>1K Cuts = Sweep
Weaken can just stay the same as it really doesn't matter

These are combo's I could use, and would use often,and the Attack Vital's combo is part of DB's better damage chain anyways, upping Dual Blade's DPS by getting AV Combo's DoT effect on it.

Hmm, I wonder if there's a Dev we can PM with that suggestion. they are pretty valid points on the combo issues.

No idea! :O

The DoT is an extra scale 1 (ie, 55.61) damage - if you want the DPS numbers you can just add in the scale for the followup (1.7 for SS, 1.32 for AbS) to the scale from earlier, factor in the time in the denominator (1.452 and 1.188 respectively) and then multiply things out for the total damage if you don't like scales.
SS: scale 6.3401 / 6.684 sec = 0.92367 ds/sec * 55.61 (dam/ds) * 1.95 (slotting) * 1.1 (critical) = 110.2 dps
AS: scale 5.9601 / 6.6 sec = 0.90305 ds/sec * 55.61 (dam/ds) * 1.95 (slotting) * 1.1 (critical) = 107.7 dps

For just the Attack Vitals portion with slotting, at 95% damage slotting the Attack Vitals combo by itself would be 92.976. Since those numbers don't include criticals you have to account for them as well, and at a 10% critical rate the dps would go up to roughly 102.27.

For how much the DoT adds, just knock 1 DS off of what I had earlier to get scale 3.6401 in 5.412 sec, which is scale 0.6726/sec * 55.61 to get damage makes it 37.403 base, 72.936 slotted, and 80.23 slotted with criticals. With all of those it does 102.27 dps, so the DoT adds 22.04 DPS to that specific part of the chain (note that it's not to the whole chain itself, just the combo portion).

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Mids doesn't include the criticals on Stalker attacks?

Though if I'm reading what you're saying correctly, Attack Vitals + Sweeping Strike equals more than 114 DPS or just under it?

Mid's usually includes the criticals: you have to specifically disable them, and even then I think someone else posted numbers they got from Mid's that didn't match the in-game numbers because criticals were included even when it was set to show minimum damage.

And from the "in-game" numbers AV+SS is - with 95% damage slotting and a 10% critical rate - around 110 DPS... so yes, less than the 114 the other chain provided. Like KM, I never bothered to try to figure out "best chains" for DB since it's a set that I'm unlikely to play again (I deleted the one I had at 38) so there may be a better chain available that uses Ablating Strike more often at higher recharge. For what it's worth, Nimble Slash makes up just under half of that chain and is bad DPA - a no-critical base DPA of 39.32, which is worse than Power Slice's 40.73. Note that both of those are worse than Assassin's Blades at 43.88, and I consider anything worse than Assassin's Strike "bad DPA" on a Stalker (and if you're just adding procs you can do that with Ablating in the same animation time on a power with higher base damage).

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.