Keep your troller and dump your SG. Anyone who thinks Ill/Storm is somehow weak doesn't deserve your attention.
(Only kidding, by the way........sort of.........kind of.......seriously anyone that doesn't understand the uberness of Ill/Storm doesn't know their controllers)
I have an Ill/Cold which I absolutely adore. It's not a killing machine like Ill/Storm, but its a fantastic team combo. Yes it has great buffs and debuffs, but not near the killing potential of /storm. Also you could be an AV killer pre i20 but epecially now with the -regen from diamagnetic interface ill/storm will be a fun anti AV build.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Same thing I said, however i didn't know how good ill/cold was....IMO aside from the neg regen portion ill/storm has it beat. What's this diamagnetic interface, and what does it do, I left right before i20 so I don't know any of the new stuff.
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Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Keep your troller and dump your SG. Anyone who thinks Ill/Storm is somehow weak doesn't deserve your attention.
(Only kidding, by the way........sort of.........kind of.......seriously anyone that doesn't understand the uberness of Ill/Storm doesn't know their controllers) I have an Ill/Cold which I absolutely adore. It's not a killing machine like Ill/Storm, but its a fantastic team combo. Yes it has great buffs and debuffs, but not near the killing potential of /storm. Also you could be an AV killer pre i20 but epecially now with the -regen from diamagnetic interface ill/storm will be a fun anti AV build. |
Interface is one of the 4 new Incarnate powers that came with i20. It adds a particular debuff (or potentially two debuffs) to your damage powers. The Diamagnetic Interface starts as a too hit debuff but on a few of the branches it includes a chance for -regen. These debuffs can stack up to like 4 times (I think some even 5 or 6...not exactly sure which ones and when). My hero main currently has Total Radial Diamagnetic Conversion which is all -regen. Here is more information for you.
Even something like reactive with -resists and extra damage (fire) would make an Ill/storm even scarier than they are now. Don't let your friends fool you. Ill/Cold is an awesome team contributer and extra nasty on AV fights, but Ill/Storm is far from anything to sneeze at........one bit.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
An Ill/Cold, built well - like really built well (capped ranged defense, high resistance, proc'ed up sleet, Fireball/Fireblast/RoP, Perma-PA), is one of the most powerful builds possible at the moment in the game.
That being said, Ill/Storm's are no ordinary builds either - I've had friends on Ill/Storms totally decimate mobs; I am not sure if they were able to solo AV's or not though. They were still amazing additions to teams, but then, these players also have superbly built toons.
Personally, when building my Ill/Cold (I already had an Ill/Rad), I was conflicted between /Storm and /Cold, but /Cold won out for several reasons.
.) Lower endurance problems (perma-Heat Loss just comes to you as you work for Perma-PA)
.) Much higher -resist debuffs (particularly if you proc sleet with ach heel)
.) Ability to buff your phantom + team members
ToHit buffs are nice, but really, once you cap range def, you're generally fine - plus, you're an Ill troll, aren't your decoys supposed to be taking 'most' of your aggro anyway? 
With 50%+ s/l resist, capped range def, the rest of the stuff that escapes your PA's aggro really is nothing to you, so the -ToHit and KB can be 'useful', but not as much on a high end build.
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
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For the purpose of killing AVs ill/cold remains one of the premier builds in the game, perhaps only bested by bots/traps.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Basically I have a ill/storm on pinnacle that I enjoyed alot. My only issue with him was the fact it was hard to take down AV's. Now I'm on virtue and I want a troller and all my sg mates keep saying ill/cold and that ill/storm sucks and storm has no synergy with illusions (I disagree). Now my problem is low lvl illusion trolling is brutal, but if ill/cold is leaps and bounds above ill/storm I don't want to waste money to transfer it no matter how much I enjoy the combo. Any help? Thx in advance.
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Ill/storm gains some good tricks from the new powers for the task, but Ill/cold already had the task beaten so as such has more freedom to do whatever it likes with the new power selections.
Even with the new endurance management methods I could still see an ill/storm gasping for breath going all out. However /cold doesn't worry about end. Also AV's hit hard and often Mez. You will get hit at some point and a /storm will feel it fully and get mezzed for a long time (and likely die). Benumb from cold makes them hit like a kitten and makes their mezzes last a fraction of the normal duration.
That said, storm is more active, flashy and a ton of fun. Cold is more powerful and if cold, effective, ultimate power is your thing then that is the way to go.
P.S. with the new Lore pets available I'm pretty sure a ill/cold could kill an AV in about 30 seconds....or less.
I have to say the Ill/Cold will take down single targets alot faster than the Ill/Storm but the /Cold will take longer to down groups of enemies. It's a give and take so it's all up to you. Since AV's heavily resist -regen debuffs, like the interface one, I'd say it'd be better to go with the -resist one. The resist one gives a -25% resist and is stackable 4 times so that means you and the pets will be hitting for alot more and not to mention AV's do not resist resistance debuffs.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I have both Ill/Storm and Ill/Cold at 50. Despite the overlap in powers, they turn out to play a bit differently. Ill/Cold is great on TFs . . . teams love the cold shields and the Endurance/+Recovery (I often coordinate with a Blaster to fire it off just after he nukes). The powerful single target debuffs with -Regen make taking down AVs to be much, much easier. Leveling up is SLOW . . . you don't get two of the best powers in Cold until 35 and 38, and Sleet is not significantly different from Freezing Rain, that you get at 16 with a Stormie. The lack of AoE control is pretty significant . . . the AoE in Snow Storm is a big help. I have to play a bit more cautiously, since I don't have a self-heal and few self-protective powers -- The Cold APP's Hibernate really helps.
Ill/Storm is the king of Chaos. You get a lot of AoE mitigation in slows and knockbacks, and the massive ToHitDebuff in Hurricane. You get Freezing Rain at 16, making those lower levels much easier. You get added damage at 35 and 38. On teams, I find I have to limit my use of many of my powers to keep from frustrating teammates . . . Tornado does not make a good opener when that Tank or Scrapper is trying to gather foes into a tight group for an AoE attack. I can let loose when playing solo or small team.
Both sets are fun and have some overlap. Cold is more team-oriented and a late bloomer, and is more single-target focused. Storm is more chaotic and wild, more fun earlier and can handle groups by throwing them all over the place.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Decided just to roll and lvl the Cold, got to 23 in one night. Not bad, the decision was based on how I had to look outside the storm set for -regen, which doesn't allow me to get something else opposed to cold. I've looked at alot of builds and none of them include aidself, but to my surprise contains snow storm, why is that? Does sleet not do the knockdown freezing rain does? Would make snow storm seem not needed if so.
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Aidself is almost entirely unneeded on an ill/cold.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Decided just to roll and lvl the Cold, got to 23 in one night. Not bad, the decision was based on how I had to look outside the storm set for -regen, which doesn't allow me to get something else opposed to cold. I've looked at alot of builds and none of them include aidself, but to my surprise contains snow storm, why is that? Does sleet not do the knockdown freezing rain does? Would make snow storm seem not needed if so.
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Snowstorm is a nice single/two slot power and cause /cold doesn't have much going on on the active side of battles in the earlier levels snowstorm can be a nice contribution.
IMO it is also not needed in later levels as it takes too long to cast and because unnecessary with perma sleet. But up until that build point it has value in some situations. Ill is also a bit lacking in the aoe control department (or at least hard control) so the addition soft control of snowstorm coupled with spec terror is generally very sufficient for most encounters (again prior to high uptime of sleet).
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Great points here. I don't have aid self (or any medicine) on mine and she's just fine. |
Originally Posted by InstantCarnation
Aidself is almost entirely unneeded on an ill/cold.
Snowstorm is a nice single/two slot power and cause /cold doesn't have much going on on the active side of battles in the earlier levels snowstorm can be a nice contribution. IMO it is also not needed in later levels as it takes too long to cast and because unnecessary with perma sleet. But up until that build point it has value in some situations. Ill is also a bit lacking in the aoe control department (or at least hard control) so the addition soft control of snowstorm coupled with spec terror is generally very sufficient for most encounters (again prior to high uptime of sleet). |
I also just want to stress that I, in no way, was trying to say that Ill/Storm is somehow 'better' than Ill/Cold. I just wanted to stress that anyone who acts like Ill/Storm is somehow lacking or gimped is soooooooo wrong. That said, enjoy your Ill/Cold; it's quickly become one of my favorite characters.
And now its especially fun with cryonic judgement.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Nother thing so I don't clutter the forum with multiple post. Why do people take the ice mastery app over earth or fire? And what's the optimal incarnate route to go for a ill/cold?
I think some are for conceptual reasons some for things like hibernate given a lack of self heal. I did on mine for conceptual reasons and some game play (sleet +ice storm or blind+spectral wounds+ice blast) etc etc.
For incarnate I'm going cryonic (I have slotted the tier 1 already) judgment (a potential extra source for more aoe control in the upper tiers and its conceptual) and gravetic planned for interface. Can't remember if I had a specific destiny picked out yet or Lore.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
On my Ill/Cold, I make up for the lack of Aid Self with Hibernation from the Ice APP set. I don't need it all that often, but when I do, it can be wonderful -- can't be interrupted like Aid Self, lets you recover Endurance as well as Health (not needed all that much on a */Cold), lets your powers recharge while you are in full safety.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Decided just to roll and lvl the Cold, got to 23 in one night. Not bad, the decision was based on how I had to look outside the storm set for -regen, which doesn't allow me to get something else opposed to cold. I've looked at alot of builds and none of them include aidself, but to my surprise contains snow storm, why is that? Does sleet not do the knockdown freezing rain does? Would make snow storm seem not needed if so.
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The Ice APP also provides a Defense shield, a fast single target attack and two different ranged AoE attacks. That fast single target attack is key -- Blind-SW-Ice Blast-SW makes a fast and effective attack chain.
Snow Storm is really a great power -- I think many people underrate Slow powers like Snow Storm. Not only is it a large AoE toggle Slow, but it also has a huge amount of -Recharge and -Fly. The -Recharge is a form of AoE control that substantially reduces the foes' ability to attack.
And there are places in the game where Slows will affect foes when other control powers won't . . . like Bosses in the Escaped Mental Patient part of BAF and most foes in the ITF. I put Snow Storm on the toughest guys and everyone else is slowed to a crawl.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
You all have been very help thx, what about keeping those ally shields, including frost work?I know they are great mules, but couldn't you just overslot something else to get another power?
Keep the ally shields? absolutely. Just as mules? Heck no. Frostwork is optional (IMO) but a nice buff.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
The ally shields are a huge help, especially for squishy teammates. Those Cold Shields can increase their survivability substantially. It also helps resistance-based armor sets.
I have a group of folks I team with on a regular basis. We each play the character that seems like fun at the time . . . but when I pull out my Ill/Cold, I always get a positive reaction . . . and periodic reminders to apply shields when I may be a little late. It is pretty obvious to me that the Cold Shields are appreciated.
I skipped Frostworks. There are a lot of powers that I felt would be more useful. Even Recall Friend.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
On a recent Khan TF I had a person we'd picked up for the run send me a tell "Wow, you're shields are nice. They really helped, how did you slot them?" Standard slotting, don't be afraid to slottem and use em.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Shields are nice, but 1 lotg +def/rech is usually good enough for them - you won't get 'that' much more of a benefit out of them by pumping even 1 more slot into them.
BTW, to answer the incarnate route, you kinda need to go spiritual; +rech is super important to an ill/cold - he ideally should be at perma-hasten, perma-PA and perma-HeatLoss; plus you really want to cast as many sleets as you can if you slot it with procs.
Virtue Speed Junkie
A Simplified Guide to Attack and Defense
I do not understand why people are doubting Ill/Storm can solo AVs. It can. Easily...
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Those are all viable options. Ice is great cause the blast is so fast and icestorm does huge damage without containment, which ill is weak at creating, so you can still wipe spawns out pretty easy with sleet+icestorm as a 1-2 punch.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Nother thing so I don't clutter the forum with multiple post. Why do people take the ice mastery app over earth or fire? And what's the optimal incarnate route to go for a ill/cold?
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Seimsic smash is great, but ill/cold plays so well at range while your pets occupy everything, so running up to punch things in the face is a bit off for the set. Satisfying though.
Fissure is also super fun, but again requires you to be so close to the enemy that it is better suited to a melee range set like fire or ice control or kinetics.
Scorp is also another option, you get another nice pet and given the high rech goals of the build it should be perma. With shields and the tuant of your ill pets it lasts a long time. additional -res is welcome too.
The shields are a great pick up. Just color them a dark palette so the are nearly invisible. FW is an astounding buff in some situations and does nothing in others. Nice if you have room as it can do a ton in the way of layered mitigation.
Spiritual seems to be the ticket. more rech is always welcome. The high firedot one seems great too. And get a high damage pet.
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there is no doubt that it can, just not in the same realm of how well ill/cold can do it.|
Originally Posted by Gaderath
I do not understand why people are doubting Ill/Storm can solo AVs. It can. Easily...
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If it is a purpose built toon with the intent of killing hard targets the ill/cold is a clearly superior choice. Along with being the "better" teaming toon. Ill/storm is crazy fun though, can do a lot of things very well and is among the most visually appealing combos in the game.
The big difference for me is - to buff or not to buff!!
Currently I'm going through an anti-buff phase and have no intention of starting a new alt that requires you to buff the team.
Buffing defines the playstyle of the alt.
In regards to it's ability to take on hard targets, the first vidoe that I saw of a Rikti Pylon being taken down was by SFX aka TalN with his Ill/Storm and this back in 2007.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvAi8...eature=related
Also taking on an AV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ELs7qZrrs0
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
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Originally Posted by InstantCarnation
For the purpose of killing AVs ill/cold remains one of the premier builds in the game, perhaps only bested by bots/traps.
Ill/storm gains some good tricks from the new powers for the task, but Ill/cold already had the task beaten so as such has more freedom to do whatever it likes with the new power selections. Even with the new endurance management methods I could still see an ill/storm gasping for breath going all out. However /cold doesn't worry about end. Also AV's hit hard and often Mez. You will get hit at some point and a /storm will feel it fully and get mezzed for a long time (and likely die). Benumb from cold makes them hit like a kitten and makes their mezzes last a fraction of the normal duration. That said, storm is more active, flashy and a ton of fun. Cold is more powerful and if cold, effective, ultimate power is your thing then that is the way to go. P.S. with the new Lore pets available I'm pretty sure a ill/cold could kill an AV in about 30 seconds....or less. |
Ill/Rad is the best build in the game for solo AVs or GMs... but you're right that Ill/Cold is very good at it.
As to the main issue. Dump the SG. You're with a bunch of n00bs who don't know what the heck they're talking about. Ill/Storm wouldn't be my choice for a "great" teammate, chances are you're scattering agro to the 4 corners of the world unless you're very good, that said, there is nothing wrong with ill/storm as a build; and you probably dominate solo.
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For what it's worth ill/rad is solid, but bested (in both speed and ability to take on harder targets easier) by an ill/cold. It's just a lot easier to get an ill/rad to the point it can do such feats.|
Originally Posted by Sprite Fire
Ill/Rad is the best build in the game for solo AVs or GMs... but you're right that Ill/Cold is very good at it.
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bots/traps easily trumps both though, I mean you can take on most AV's with just SO's with a bot/traps.
Basically I have a ill/storm on pinnacle that I enjoyed alot. My only issue with him was the fact it was hard to take down AV's. Now I'm on virtue and I want a troller and all my sg mates keep saying ill/cold and that ill/storm sucks and storm has no synergy with illusions (I disagree). Now my problem is low lvl illusion trolling is brutal, but if ill/cold is leaps and bounds above ill/storm I don't want to waste money to transfer it no matter how much I enjoy the combo. Any help? Thx in advance.