Maybe if some of us were getting replies from customer service, we wouldn't be talking about it on the forums... been four days for me with no response.
I am just glad we accomplished it.
@Nuprin Feelgood ... pew pew pew
And those of us who did get a response got an impersonal form letter.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
Quote:
Red, I don't want you to think that my agitation has anything to do with you. I know you're just repeating what you heard in an effort to get as much information together as possible, which is something I am very grateful for and appreciate! I'm just annoyed (among other feelings) by the severe lack of clear communication and the disconnect from the directions players receive in game and what we're hearing now. Like I told you the other night, this isn't a case of shoot the messenger. I appreciate what you're doing. |
Originally Posted by Red_Gren
Just going to shut up now & see what support decides. Probably should have done this from the beginning.
Saw the conversations from the Badge section that Arwen must have been talking about. I can see her frustration in that some are getting the badge & others aren't for doing the same dang thing. At this point, it seems it doesn't matter what the game says the requirements are, or what the requirements are supposed to be because they don't work anyway! And then when I get home, I'm going to go out & smash me some BAF or Lambda or tip baddies. RAWR!!! |
And yes, I'm quite frustrated. Our League got cheated. Simple as that.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
Got the generic reply.
What the generic reply didn't acknowledge was that if the conditions of the 3 badges are correct, then our League should have gotten Lambda Looter and did not.
Basically, I was just told "you're probably wrong, the badges are tougher to get than you think, you probably didn't meet the criteria."
Which clearly wasn't investigated, because Lambda Looter should have worked on that criteria unless the league was wrong and something got used. Not sure how that would have happened.... unless a temp power got used, then replaced before the end by attacking a weapon shipment. But I think the League would have noticed the sudden increase in how much damage Marauder was taking with a Paci Grenade used. And the progress bar in the objectives window would have shown if number of portals went down from 10, right?
Plus if other leagues are getting all 3 badges in one run (as I've seen reported multiple times by other players), then something is wrong in the other direction, with badges sometimes being rewarded when NOT meeting the criteria.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
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Well I did finally get a response.
Without quoting verbatim (god forbid I should break a rule while trying to inform my fellow gamers) the Badge descriptions SHOULD read as follows:
Synchronized - Destroy a Weapons Cache and an Incubation Pod within 2 seconds of each other during the Lambda Sector Incarnate Trial.
Lambda Looter - Get 10 Molecular Acids and 10 Pacification Grenades, but don't use them.
Well-Stocked - Get no Molecular Acids and 10 Pacification Grenades, but don't use them.
Note that if you get even one Molecular Acid then you will not get this badge. If anyone uses their Pacification Grenade, you would also be ineligible for the badge.
Antacid - Get 10 Molecular Acids and no Pacification Grenades, but don't use them.
Note that if you get even one Pacification Grenade then you will not get this badge. If anyone uses their Molecular Acid, you would also be ineligible for the badge.
It seems we should have received the Lambda Looter. I haven't logged on that toon yet to see if it got awarded but my guess is it didn't.
@Nuprin Feelgood ... pew pew pew
Quote:
Yep. In my response back to CS I mentioned that we should have at least gotten Lambda Looter then.|
Originally Posted by NuprinFeelgood
It seems we should have received the Lambda Looter. I haven't logged on that toon yet to see if it got awarded but my guess is it didn't.
|
And these criteria for getting the badge doesn't mesh with multiple reports of other leagues getting all 3 badges in one run.
also, I gotta question the game design choice here. on the BAF, theoretically, after you get all the badges, you can still boost your astral merits by re-doing all the badge goals. If you are really uber, your league could get up to 4 extra Astral Merits by doing the BAF as if it's a master run.
If 3 of the 4 badges for Lambda are mutually exclusive, you have a max of 2 extra Astral Merits for doing badge goals. And, to be honest, holding back on using Acids or Paci Grenades is a lot tougher on the difficulty curve of the Lambda then the goals of the badges in the BAF (leaving guard towers on? easy. Keeping 'em separated? Some groups getting really good at that. No prisoners escaped? Happens most of the time on Justice nowadays.)
For that matter, if a group of skilled players says "Fred just got his newest character to 50 and unlocked Incarnate. Let's get him the Master badges on the Trials!", then BAF can be done in one run, even if it's challenging. Lambda takes a minimum of 3 runs. Huh?
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
Wait a sec... it's worse than that...
If you wanted to get an extra Astral Merit by doing, say, Antacid, over again....you'd have to forgo getting any Grenades... but then you'd lose the Merit for the 10 / 10 on grenades collection, and the Merit for getting full sabotage on both sides, for a net loss of an Astral Merit.
If you do want extra Astral Merits on Lambda, only option is Lambda Looter, which means if you beat Marauder with no acids or paci grenades, you get a grand total of 4 Astral Merits.
As many as a BAF awards on normal completion. Leave the guard towers on or stop all the prisoners, and you're up to 5 merits. Really? Doing Lambda without using Acid / Grenades gets less reward than BAF with guard towers left on? Doing Lambda the "hard way" looks to be both more difficult and more time-consuming to me...
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
Quote:
I say "Brilliant!"|
Originally Posted by Shagster
Wait a sec... it's worse than that...
If you wanted to get an extra Astral Merit by doing, say, Antacid, over again....you'd have to forgo getting any Grenades... but then you'd lose the Merit for the 10 / 10 on grenades collection, and the Merit for getting full sabotage on both sides, for a net loss of an Astral Merit. If you do want extra Astral Merits on Lambda, only option is Lambda Looter, which means if you beat Marauder with no acids or paci grenades, you get a grand total of 4 Astral Merits. As many as a BAF awards on normal completion. Leave the guard towers on or stop all the prisoners, and you're up to 5 merits. Really? Doing Lambda without using Acid / Grenades gets less reward than BAF with guard towers left on? Doing Lambda the "hard way" looks to be both more difficult and more time-consuming to me... |
er uhm.... nvm.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Quote:
Actually, that's not really that surprising. BAF is the farming Trial of choice already, even if the badges/merits function differently than described, that's not going to change. The slog to beat down a no-temp power Marauder, even with 3 level shifts makes it much less time efficient than BAF. I'm sure there are teams capable of doing it pretty quickly, but for the wider player base, BAF is far more grind-friendly.
|
Originally Posted by Shagster
Wait a sec... it's worse than that...
If you wanted to get an extra Astral Merit by doing, say, Antacid, over again....you'd have to forgo getting any Grenades... but then you'd lose the Merit for the 10 / 10 on grenades collection, and the Merit for getting full sabotage on both sides, for a net loss of an Astral Merit. If you do want extra Astral Merits on Lambda, only option is Lambda Looter, which means if you beat Marauder with no acids or paci grenades, you get a grand total of 4 Astral Merits. As many as a BAF awards on normal completion. Leave the guard towers on or stop all the prisoners, and you're up to 5 merits. Really? Doing Lambda without using Acid / Grenades gets less reward than BAF with guard towers left on? Doing Lambda the "hard way" looks to be both more difficult and more time-consuming to me... |
My major points of contention are these:
1 - We did everything exactly at it is stated in game. This information we are now receiving is nowhere in the game, and is news to us all.
2 - Since the vast majority of players never visit the forums, a situation acknowledged and discussed on the forums by devs and community team leaders alike, then the in-game descriptions are where that vast majority is going to look for clues, guides and directions to completing objectives. As of a couple of hours ago, post today's hot fix, the badge prompts are still exactly as I posted above.
3 - Since that in-game information is, apparently, wrong the onus is on the devs/GMs to make right on what happened. You can't tell someone they're "doing it wrong" when you give the wrong directions.
@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
The Dev's have coughed up a furba... er have spoken. 
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...12#post3592312
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darkbridger
Actually, that's not really that surprising. BAF is the farming Trial of choice already, even if the badges/merits function differently than described, that's not going to change. The slog to beat down a no-temp power Marauder, even with 3 level shifts makes it much less time efficient than BAF. I'm sure there are teams capable of doing it pretty quickly, but for the wider player base, BAF is far more grind-friendly.
|
Yeah, but if you COULD take out Marauder without the temp powers, it seems like 6 Astral Merits (if all 3 badges awarded at once) would be fairer reward than 4, when compared to the difficulty of getting similar number of Merits in BAF.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
Quote:
Based on this, I'm wondering if our League managed to accidentally acquire another Acid or Grenade by killing a weapon shipment.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
The Dev's have coughed up a furba... er have spoken.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...12#post3592312 |
And well, since Marauder basically jumps right on top of the acid weapon shipment, how the heck were were supposed to avoid that with area of effect damage while fighting all the crazy reinforcements? Especially since WE DIDN'T KNOW IN ADVANCE! And had no reason to think this was the case as OTHER Leagues had gotten all 3 badges at once?
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
the Q&A said:
Quote:
So, the thing for us to do now is to make a few Lambda Looter runs before the patch goes in, and hope that we get a bugged run that gives all 3 badges, like the lucky people who got it before us?
| Theres additional confusion due to a bug where one of the badges is improperly awarding the other two. Both of these issues will be rectified soon |
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
Quote:
I wasn't commenting on the fairness of the way it SHOULD work. I was simply saying, even if it DID work that way, BAF will remain (for now) the path of least resistance followed by the masses. This is compounded by the fact that you can drag another 8 people into BAF and still finish it faster. If not for iXP and Empyreans, Lambda would probably be more ignored than it already is.
|
Originally Posted by Shagster
Yeah, but if you COULD take out Marauder without the temp powers, it seems like 6 Astral Merits (if all 3 badges awarded at once) would be fairer reward than 4, when compared to the difficulty of getting similar number of Merits in BAF.
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Quote:
Such convenient timing... it was very nice of them to point out that it's almost the weekend so we shouldn't expect answers to our perfectly logical questions anytime soon.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
The Dev's have coughed up a furba... er have spoken.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...12#post3592312 |
I always enjoy how they refuse to admit they're wrong whenever the player base calls them out on a mistake... *poof* the rules change and we're all the wrong ones.
Anyway, this particular trick on their part may be the beginning of the end of my 7 years as a paying customer. I just don't have the energy to be so frustrated over stuff like this anymore. It does no good since debating valid points with support is similar to arguing with a brick wall.
Allyriah - 50 Ice/Ice Blaster
Cyrrena - 50 Sonic/Dark Corr
Ally Stryke - 50 Inv/SS Tank
and so many more...
Quote:
We tallied up all the Acids and Grenades at the end while we were petitioning and we had no extras. We did everything according to the guidelines provided...the screw up is on the Dev's side. At the very least we should have received one badge. As for the rest of the imbalance and bad design, its just par for the course.
|
Originally Posted by Shagster
Based on this, I'm wondering if our League managed to accidentally acquire another Acid or Grenade by killing a weapon shipment.
And well, since Marauder basically jumps right on top of the acid weapon shipment, how the heck were were supposed to avoid that with area of effect damage while fighting all the crazy reinforcements? Especially since WE DIDN'T KNOW IN ADVANCE! And had no reason to think this was the case as OTHER Leagues had gotten all 3 badges at once? |
@Nuprin Feelgood ... pew pew pew
Quote:
Well, I'm not going to attribute this to either malice or intentional deception.|
Originally Posted by Allyriah
Such convenient timing... it was very nice of them to point out that it's almost the weekend so we shouldn't expect answers to our perfectly logical questions anytime soon.
I always enjoy how they refuse to admit they're wrong whenever the player base calls them out on a mistake... *poof* the rules change and we're all the wrong ones. Anyway, this particular trick on their part may be the beginning of the end of my 7 years as a paying customer. I just don't have the energy to be so frustrated over stuff like this anymore. It does no good since debating valid points with support is similar to arguing with a brick wall. |
I will say that I think it was a particularly annoying screw-up. Bad communication on the badge requirements. Plus a bug that awarded extra badges to some and not to others. Plus, what I think are bad badge / reward design choices on the Lambda, especially compared to the BAF. A triple threat of customer frustration on this particular event.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shagster
Well, I'm not going to attribute this to either malice or intentional deception.
I will say that I think it was a particularly annoying screw-up. Bad communication on the badge requirements. Plus a bug that awarded extra badges to some and not to others. Plus, what I think are bad badge / reward design choices on the Lambda, especially compared to the BAF. A triple threat of customer frustration on this particular event. |
Add to that the consistently inconsistent and unfair balance in the reward tables and you get an Issue that should have spent a few more weeks on the drawing table IMHO. They deserve all the customer dissatisfaction they can stomach...
@Nuprin Feelgood ... pew pew pew
Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AEkLXkDgWI#t=38s|
Originally Posted by NuprinFeelgood
Without quoting verbatim (god forbid I should break a rule while trying to inform my fellow gamers)
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Man, he's slimey.
Quote:
It seems rather amazing to me how many long-time players are now considering leaving the game over recent design decisions.|
Originally Posted by Allyriah
Anyway, this particular trick on their part may be the beginning of the end of my 7 years as a paying customer. I just don't have the energy to be so frustrated over stuff like this anymore. It does no good since debating valid points with support is similar to arguing with a brick wall. |
My decision-making process began in November (right after I'd paid my annual subscription) and nothing I'm seeing is pushing me towards staying. What I saw in November was a design change towards a "must team to get the new rewards" mentality and that seems to have also evolved into a "grind, grind, grind as a team" mentality.
It saddens me that recent design decisions are going away from the things that made this game so fun for the casual players and soloists and are trending towards the grindy raiding style of the 300 lb. gorilla of the MMO world.
The casual and solo PVE players seem to be now getting the same treatment that the PVP players got. Getting rid of the things that made that part of the game so fun and ignoring the comments from the players testing the changes before they are implemented but telling us "just wait, it'll be fun, you'll learn to like it".
Sorry to hear that all of you worked so hard to meet the criteria listed in game only to find that either they are changing the criteria since it was too easy to do before or that the in game information about it was actually wrong. Especially sorry to hear that you appear to have met the requirements for one of the badges and it wasn't awarded.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
I have to agree with Ally here. I really don't feel like supporting a game where our conversations are micromanaged and we can't even discuss with each other the "solutions" to a common problem. Gods forbid we call them out on their stupid mistakes they constantly make and share amongst each other the BS excuses that are auto-generated to us.|
Originally Posted by Allyriah
Anyway, this particular trick on their part may be the beginning of the end of my 7 years as a paying customer. I just don't have the energy to be so frustrated over stuff like this anymore. It does no good since debating valid points with support is similar to arguing with a brick wall.
|
I've been considering leaving the game for the better part of six months. This may have been the final nail in the proverbial coffin.
Quote:
| Discuss all matters related to the Justice server here.* |
Quote:
Me, too. I'm paid through June, and will (might?) hit my 7 year mark in August. At this point, I'm honestly not sure what I'm going to do. As I stated in my correspondence to CS and Black Scorpion, this is the first time in 7 years that I truly feel unhappy by how I'm being treated as a player and customer. I feel let down, and I feel like the people who should care about this, don't. It's a very funny way to do business.|
Originally Posted by Allyriah
Anyway, this particular trick on their part may be the beginning of the end of my 7 years as a paying customer. I just don't have the energy to be so frustrated over stuff like this anymore. It does no good since debating valid points with support is similar to arguing with a brick wall.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shagster
Well, I'm not going to attribute this to either malice or intentional deception.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by NuprinFeelgood
Add to that the consistently inconsistent and unfair balance in the reward tables and you get an Issue that should have spent a few more weeks on the drawing table IMHO. They deserve all the customer dissatisfaction they can stomach...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Sorry to hear that all of you worked so hard to meet the criteria listed in game only to find that either they are changing the criteria since it was too easy to do before or that the in game information about it was actually wrong. Especially sorry to hear that you appear to have met the requirements for one of the badges and it wasn't awarded.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by PhantomEnigma
I've been considering leaving the game for the better part of six months. This may have been the final nail in the proverbial coffin.
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@Arwen Darkblade
Proud Member of Hammer of the Gods and Sanguine Syndicate
Arc ID #86194 "Cry Havoc"
Arc ID #103934 "Dr. Thomas' First Day"
[URL="http://tobyfife.blogspot.com/"]Hero Girl[/URL] - my geek culture blog
Well, I'm gonna try sometime in next few days to do a "Lambda Looter" run on FemFury, and see if the glitch in player's favor shows up to award all 3 badges. Then I can at least have the badges on my main character without having to do basically the same Master run scenario 3 times on same character. Other players got lucky, maybe I will too. Just got to get it done before they patch things.
I'll probably also try some Lambda Looter runs with Dr. Continuum, to bring some Rad debuffs and try to help others get the badges. I'll grind with him to help Electroanagesia get the badge, for one thing. Must support the other badge-hungry person in my SG, after all.
I'm a published amateur comic book author: www.ericjohnsoncomics.com
******MA Arcs****
Arc 5909: "Amazon-Avatars"
Arc 6143: "Escalation" (Nominee: Architect Awards, Nominee: Player Awards, and Dev's Choice!)
I am Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise.