Destiny buffs for Scrappers


Arcanaville

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I need to see more real numbers on this stuff, though. Like I don't know the recharge on everything, and whether your global recharge affects it. And what I'll probably do is copy over to test and try them all out once I have enough to get one of them. But there's more to it than even testing, since you can actually build around some of these things, like I built around the T4 Cardiac.
Here is Dispari's guide.

Outside of the pets, for which the real numbers aren't listed there, everything else you need is.

Recharge does not boost any Incarnate power, not global recharge nor the Recharge from the Spiritual Alpha slot.

Other alpha enhancements do affect their respective abilities for the new incarnate powers. (so the heal portion of spiritual, or is supposed to boost Rebirth - but the recharge portion of spiritual does not)


 

Posted

I'd seen the guide, but missed the recharge on Destiny. Found it now. So 2 minutes, so it's always up or available, but usually at a lowish number.

But you're saying the resistance from my Cardiac alpha will buff Barrier? So +20%? If so, that would put my Katana/Dark's weighted (by how common the damage type is) average damage resistance at 64% with the tier 4, up from 53%. That should be about a 30% improvement in survivability from resisance alone, at least on paper. Unfotunately, that weighting is the game as a whole, not the apparently energy-heavy trials. Energy is my worst damage resistance. Also, I'm not sure if I'll be better or worse off than it looks on paper. Spike damage during the later stages of Barrier isn't much reduced. So in a solo fight with an AV, say, my actual survivability will probably correspond to the +6% resistance level. But in cases where I NEED spikes of survivability, which may be fairly frequently, Barrier will provide. And for fights with an incoming damage curve that matches Barrier's buff curve (RWZ challenge, perhaps, though that isn't technically possible any more since there are no more +4s), you'd probably get a somewhat better than "on paper" survivability boost. Hmmm, I'll also be capped or one small orange from the cap for a lot of damage types a lot of the time. It's all very interesting.

On the surface, I don't see how Ageless would compete with that for my build, much as I'd love some debuff resistance and some more recharge.

And I got lucky tonight - three successful BAFs resulting in one rare and one very rare. Now if only I hadn't clicked on the wrong very rare in the heat of the moment! Still, I don't know what I'll be doing for Judgment or Lore yet. Maybe it'll work out.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post

And I got lucky tonight - three successful BAFs resulting in one rare and one very rare. Now if only I hadn't clicked on the wrong very rare in the heat of the moment! Still, I don't know what I'll be doing for Judgment or Lore yet. Maybe it'll work out.
HA! Happened to me couple days ago. Could have gotten my tier 4 reactive then but instead I had to wait till today. The trials are getting pretty easy now though even on Freedom with all those kids running around
I went for Destiny 1st and got it to tier 3. Doing judgment very last. Lore I got after my tier 3 reactive.


 

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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Debuff resistance isn't useful as a response to existing debuffs, so would have to be used ahead of time, so just put on auto, essentially. So then I just hope I'm at the first part of the cycle when the trouble starts. Maybe it helps a lot, maybe a little, maybe not at all. Extra recharge on Dark Regeneration is always nice, of course.
Actually, I'm not at all sure this is how debuff resistance interacts with debuffs. For quite a while I had Focused Accuracy on my DB/Regen as a place to slot Gaussian's set. (I ditched it for Tactics with I19.) The main thing I used it for was toHit debuff resistance when faced with Death Mages and large numbers of Council/5th Vampyres. Turning it on after I was already debuffed restored my toHit chance to reasonable numbers. The debuff from Death Mages is a tick (though a pretty slow one), but the debuffs from Dark Blast and Dark Melee powers used by Vampyres (and Death Mages at range) are clicks. If what you're describing above is correct, turning FA on shouldn't have raised my toHit by anything like as much as it did. We're talking 30-40 points at times when I was heavily debuffed.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Actually, I'm not at all sure this is how debuff resistance interacts with debuffs. For quite a while I had Focused Accuracy on my DB/Regen as a place to slot Gaussian's set. (I ditched it for Tactics with I19.) The main thing I used it for was toHit debuff resistance when faced with Death Mages and large numbers of Council/5th Vampyres. Turning it on after I was already debuffed restored my toHit chance to reasonable numbers. The debuff from Death Mages is a tick (though a pretty slow one), but the debuffs from Dark Blast and Dark Melee powers used by Vampyres (and Death Mages at range) are clicks. If what you're describing above is correct, turning FA on shouldn't have raised my toHit by anything like as much as it did. We're talking 30-40 points at times when I was heavily debuffed.
Debuff resistance should affect all active debuffs, even debuffs that have already landed, if they are still taking effect. Really no different than when a resistance buff reduces a DoT while its still ticking.


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I got the top tier barrier on my ss/wp brute, and its a great power. First of all, the top tier one is perma, and at minimum gives you a 5% def boost. But its really great, especially in the new content that likes to laugh at defense, by giving you a short, but huge, defensive boost to help you absorb a nasty alpha.

My fire/sd scrapper is going to be lusting after that heal, plus regen one, which should up his survivability big time.

When I first read these powers, it seemed like they would only affect teamates. Then when I first tried barrier and saw that it also affected self, I got a lot more interested, lol.


 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Debuff resistance should affect all active debuffs, even debuffs that have already landed, if they are still taking effect. Really no different than when a resistance buff reduces a DoT while its still ticking.
Cool. That's what it seemed like, certainly.

So Werner would be able to get debuffed, pop the resistance power, and have the debuffs lessened. Granted, the magnitude steps down fairly quickly, but it could buy time. I actually use things like MoG and Shadow Meld (and now, Barrier) to try and recover from heavy debuffs, but sometimes you're already so badly debuffed they can't pull you out of the hole. (It'd have to be a deep hole for Barrier, though.) A burst of actual DDR would be nice for more graceful recovery from that.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I'd seen the guide, but missed the recharge on Destiny. Found it now. So 2 minutes, so it's always up or available, but usually at a lowish number.
Correct, the Core side is perma. The Radial side of each Destiny tree is not. Barrier Radial Epiphany gets a 2x Ally res. Whatever that means.

"Lowish" number? Well, compared to the burst of godlike invincibility, yeah I guess it's lowish.

But Barrier Core Epiphany will provide at the "Lowish" level tail end of the buff:

30s of 7.5% Resistance and Defense, followed by
60s of 5% Resistance and Defense

Or, 50% or more Defense and Resistance than the Gladiator Unique and Shield Wall Unique combined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
But you're saying the resistance from my Cardiac alpha will buff Barrier?
I hadn't actually considered that. I have the T4 Barrier in game on my SS/WP Brute. I'll check and report back.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
On the surface, I don't see how Ageless would compete with that for my build, much as I'd love some debuff resistance and some more recharge.
It is a bit less overall useful than Barrier, but I find when we do get hit with debuffs they are usually so heavy as to suddenly cripple a character.

Also, the Ageless Core Epiphany does grant, at the tail end of the buff,

+200% Recovery for 30s, followed by
+100% Recovery for 60s

Basically ageless is a godsend for builds that either went out of their way to squeeze in as much recovery as possible or still suffer from endurance issues.

Considering that it refills your blue-bar to full once every 2 minutes, and then provides a steady recovery boost over the next 2 minutes until it recharges, it also gives some builds the option of dropping cardiac and grabbing say, musculature or spiritual.

I'm singing its virtues, even though I agree with you on Barrier.

Ageless is a bit of an unsung power, I doubt many will be taking at. It certainly will be less poplar than Barrier or Rebirth, but it is still amazing all things considered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
And I got lucky tonight - three successful BAFs resulting in one rare and one very rare. Now if only I hadn't clicked on the wrong very rare in the heat of the moment! Still, I don't know what I'll be doing for Judgment or Lore yet. Maybe it'll work out.
For Judgement, if you are a melee character intensely focused on survivability, I think Void is the way to go.

Void Radial Final Judgement: -50% DMG for 30s, 32 targets (50ft radius)

-50% damage in a 50ft radius??

I'm already using the T4 Void Radial Final Judgement on live, and this debuff is as useful as it looks on paper. It's not going to save you permanently, but the debuff is strong enough that I sometimes save Void for when I know I will be between castings of Barrier and SoW on the iTrials and I'm about to hit a rough spot.

One more tool for survivability - Oh yeah and its also an excellent nuke.


I was disappointed at first when I took void, it doesn't look as impressive as Pyronic or Ion.

I think it could still use some love in the looks department, but at 50ft it starts to look better because a 50ft radius is insanely huge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Debuff resistance should affect all active debuffs, even debuffs that have already landed, if they are still taking effect. Really no different than when a resistance buff reduces a DoT while its still ticking.
Great info to know.


 

Posted

I just tested in game.

Alpha Cardiac Core Paragon does not buff the resistance portion of Barrier Core Epiphany.

I'm not sure if this is WAI or not, so I reported it as a bug.



Then I tested out Void Radial Final Judgement against L54 Hero Class Statesman in the AE.

-32.50% Damage.


 

Posted

From what I've read, nothing is supposed to affect Destiny, including Alpha. Spiritual works on Rebirth, but that is considered a bug.

With a +1 level shift, a 54 AV would be a +3, so the purple patch puts your powers at 65% effectiveness. That would indeed reduce a 50% debuff to 32.5%.


 

Posted

Really? Is Rebirth being buffed by Spiritual a bug? I'm enjoying hitting the entire League with a 1,000+ point Heal.


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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards View Post
Really? Is Rebirth being buffed by Spiritual a bug? I'm enjoying hitting the entire League with a 1,000+ point Heal.
I hope it's not a bug, I thought it was kind of nice that Spiritual Alpha users got something since they get jack for boosts on Judgement. Cardiac/Nerve working on Barrier would be nice as well.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Debuff resistance should affect all active debuffs, even debuffs that have already landed, if they are still taking effect. Really no different than when a resistance buff reduces a DoT while its still ticking.
The things I still don't know about this game could fill a book. One written by Arcana.

OK, being able to use it reactively makes Ageless at least a lot more competitive. For the sake of argument, let's also say that I can lean on both the endurance and recharge (Conserve Power) to replace the Cardiac Alpha (questionable, I'd need to calculate). Maybe Musculature Radial's boost to endurance recovery would be enough to make up the difference assuming there is one, giving me a little more damage. Damage seems like the last thing I'll need to buff at full I20 spec. Nerve won't be very useful since I don't have much in the way of defensive powers, just defense bonuses. So we'd be looking at probably Spiritual Core. If there's an endurance shortfall, hopefully the recharge from it and Ageless will get Conserve Power to take care of it. I get an average debuff resistance of 32, but I'd be using it reactively, so average would be lower, but actual utility would probably be higher than that indicates. Dark Regeneration would on average recharge in, I think, 10 seconds instead of 12 seconds, and at least if facing a single target (rare) would heal for more. Plus better regeneration from the Alpha. However, I lose a fair bit of resistance that I already have, and don't have a response to to-hit buffs, only to defense (and other) debuffs.

As far as Barrier not being able to pull you out of a hole, I would only ever be in that deep a hole if I wasn't paying any attention. Moment of Glory, for instance, has I think NEVER failed me if I use it correctly. Incorrectly would be hitting it way too late, or using it against psionic enemies. Ooops! Anyway, inattention in a huge mob of high level defense debuffers could still get me killed. But I think as long as I'm paying attention and Barrier was available, there would be no problem.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Also, the Ageless Core Epiphany does grant...
Ah, but Ageless CORE doesn't have the debuff resistance, right? So there's no point for me, then. I'd be using Radial, which means "only" filling my blue bar every two minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
For Judgement, if you are a melee character intensely focused on survivability, I think Void is the way to go.

Void Radial Final Judgement: -50% DMG for 30s, 32 targets (50ft radius)
Yeah, I was eyeing Void Radial, but hadn't thought anything through yet. On quick glance, it did look best from a survivability standpoint while still doing good damage. Also thematically appropriate, though the overriding theme on my Katana/Dark is "whatever works".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Alpha Cardiac Core Paragon does not buff the resistance portion of Barrier Core Epiphany.
Noooooo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Then I tested out Void Radial Final Judgement against L54 Hero Class Statesman in the AE.

-32.50% Damage.
That'll do.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobster View Post
I hope it's not a bug, I thought it was kind of nice that Spiritual Alpha users got something since they get jack for boosts on Judgement. Cardiac/Nerve working on Barrier would be nice as well.
I agree (preferably I would like to simply have Spiritual work on Judgement, but that probably won't happen). I was just relating what I've seen. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news if it turns out to be true


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
For Judgement, if you are a melee character intensely focused on survivability, I think Void is the way to go.

Void Radial Final Judgement: -50% DMG for 30s, 32 targets (50ft radius)

-50% damage in a 50ft radius??

I'm already using the T4 Void Radial Final Judgement on live, and this debuff is as useful as it looks on paper. It's not going to save you permanently, but the debuff is strong enough that I sometimes save Void for when I know I will be between castings of Barrier and SoW on the iTrials and I'm about to hit a rough spot.

One more tool for survivability - Oh yeah and its also an excellent nuke.


I was disappointed at first when I took void, it doesn't look as impressive as Pyronic or Ion.

I think it could still use some love in the looks department, but at 50ft it starts to look better because a 50ft radius is insanely huge.




Great info to know.
Yeah, the top-tier void is TEH SWEET. Because of the huge radius and large target cap, I feel it actually does more damage than the other options because it's hitting more stuff.

For heavy armor toons, it's definitely the way to go.

Even better, since it doesn't require a target, it's easy to use, as well.


 

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I kind of overlooked the back end of Rebirth, in favor of the huge up front heal or the other destiny powers.

But 200% Regen is actually more Regen than an ED capped Fast Healing.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
But 200% Regen is actually more Regen than an ED capped Fast Healing.
Yep. Going to be loving that on characters that already have a lot of defense and/or DR.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Yeah that looks good for my SR and would actually put my bs/inv to 600% regen....


 

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With the t4 destiny I'm at 49 hp/sec - that plus the 42 hp/sec from siphon life gets me up into the 90 hp/sec range. Layered defenses are awesome - my Werner Rectangle (tm) is huge!


 

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Yep void. Pyro would be good for the dps, 40 targets is awsome on ion, but on my main dm/sr: void, and rebirth core for the hp boost. Best way to cover my bases, I think.


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Originally Posted by Igor_The_Mad View Post
my Werner Rectangle (tm) is huge!
For me, it's the Umbral Rectangle. I hadn't thought to visualize survivabilty that way, even though that's what the math is essentially doing - computing the area of a rectangle. Then Umbral said it, and I was like, "Ah, great way to describe it!" I'd also be surprised if people weren't talking about it that way before Umbral too. That's just where I heard it.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks