Broadsword power set: Hack vs Slash
By
ClawsandEffect,
Posted on: 2011-03-28 15:46 in Suggestions and Ideas
If it were a tanker power set, then it could be a concern, but as it is, everyone with access to the Broadsword gets a choice of the first two powers.
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Well, yes, everyone gets to pick from the first two powers of any primary set. I know that some players will pick the first one because it is fast, and some will pick the second because it does more damage, but if they're reversed, then people end up picking the wrong one.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
If it were a tanker power set, then it could be a concern, but as it is, everyone with access to the Broadsword gets a choice of the first two powers.
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Things can go wrong when people pick powers without reading the description at all.
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Originally Posted by Poutine
Well, yes, everyone gets to pick from the first two powers of any primary set. I know that some players will pick the first one because it is fast, and some will pick the second because it does more damage, but if they're reversed, then people end up picking the wrong one.
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| Things can go wrong when people pick powers without reading the description at all. |
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
Things can go wrong when people pick powers without reading the description at all.
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Originally Posted by Sharker Quint I
And if you made a mistake picking you should notice either when you zone in from creating the toon or after the first levels of game play. You can then re-roll the toon and be back to level 2,3,4,5 within a few mins.
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The point I'm trying to make is that the Broadsword power is incongruent in a way that none of the other powersets are, and while there's a chance this was intentional, I highly suspect this to be a bug and wanted to draw the dev's attention to it.
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Trust me, this is not a bug. This is wai. And how is it incongruent? You are able to pick one power or the other when you create a toon. Does it really bother you that much that the 2 powers are in different places? It's like if a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly are next to each other and someone put them so it was jelly and peanut butter instead of peanut butter and jelly.
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Originally Posted by Poutine
I think you're missing the point I'm making. Yes, it's easy to just re-roll a character, and yes, people should be reading the descriptions of the powers.
The point I'm trying to make is that the Broadsword power is incongruent in a way that none of the other powersets are, and while there's a chance this was intentional, I highly suspect this to be a bug and wanted to draw the dev's attention to it. |
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Compare Barrage and Energy Punch.
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Originally Posted by Poutine
The point I'm trying to make is that the Broadsword power is incongruent in a way that none of the other powersets are
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Again, I understand that you personally don't mind. That's not my point.|
Originally Posted by Sharker Quint I
Trust me, this is not a bug. This is wai. And how is it incongruent? You are able to pick one power or the other when you create a toon. Does it really bother you that much that the 2 powers are in different places? It's like if a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly are next to each other and someone put them so it was jelly and peanut butter instead of peanut butter and jelly.
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Every other power set has the least powerful power first and the next powerful power second. Broadsword does not. That is incongruent. Further, the icon for the second least powerful power is the icon for the least powerful power in the Broadsword set, and vice versa. That is also incongruent.
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Then you really aren't going to like katana either if the powers not being the same way as the others really gets your panties in a bunch. It has been this way since the powers were introduced. It is not that I don't care, it is the way the devs want it. And where the powers sit in the list is not indicative of how powerful they are. |
Originally Posted by Poutine
Again, I understand that you personally don't mind. That's not my point.
Every other power set has the least powerful power first and the next powerful power second. Broadsword does not. That is incongruent. Further, the icon for the second least powerful power is the icon for the least powerful power in the Broadsword set, and vice versa. That is also incongruent. |
I bet the next thing you will come here with will be, "Why is taunt so far up the list? It doesnt do any damage at all."
For consistency sake I agree.
YES people should read the descriptions before selecting but it is a STANDARD (based on MOST of the other Melee/Ranged Damage Power Set listings) that the T1 power is weaker than the T2 (and for those paedantic people out there like me weaker = less damage).
So for STANDARDS sake /signed.
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I see. So your argument against fixing it is, "That's the way it's always been, so there's no point in fixing it?" Just because it's been broken up until now doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea not to fix it.|
Originally Posted by Sharker Quint I
Then you really aren't going to like katana either if the powers not being the same way as the others really gets your panties in a bunch. It has been this way since the powers were introduced. It is not that I don't care, it is the way the devs want it. And where the powers sit in the list is not indicative of how powerful they are.
I bet the next thing you will come here with will be, "Why is taunt so far up the list? It doesnt do any damage at all." |
And no, taunting me isn't a good reason not to fix the powerset. Your last line is uncivil and uncalled for.
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Umm... Did you not see the smiling tongue sticking out face after the last sentence? that was just some friendly ribbing. It was not a shot at you. And I never said that I didn't like the idea. I couldn't care one way or the other honestly, but these are things that happen in a discussion. You are going to need to convince everyone why it is a good suggestion.
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Originally Posted by Poutine
I see. So your argument against fixing it is, "That's the way it's always been, so there's no point in fixing it?" Just because it's been broken up until now doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea not to fix it.
And no, taunting me isn't a good reason not to fix the powerset. Your last line is uncivil and uncalled for. |
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Actually he/she only need to convince the Devs not everyone :P|
Originally Posted by Sharker Quint I
..... You are going to need to convince everyone why it is a good suggestion.
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Told you I was paedantic
Relatedly, the icons for the two powers (in both Broadsword and Katana) are reversed. It's one thing for them to be in reverse order, but it's another thing for their icons to be unintuitive. A fix for both would be nice.
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Hmm... Maybe a bit more like all other blood types in storage are + then -, except say A type blood which is - then +.
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Originally Posted by Sharker Quint I
Trust me, this is not a bug. This is wai. And how is it incongruent? You are able to pick one power or the other when you create a toon. Does it really bother you that much that the 2 powers are in different places? It's like if a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly are next to each other and someone put them so it was jelly and peanut butter instead of peanut butter and jelly.
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Technically not the same - Barrage used to be weaker than Energy Punch before it was changed, while Broadsword and Katana have had it I'm pretty sure since the game first launched.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
Compare Barrage and Energy Punch.
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The funny thing is: Gambler's Cut is actually the better attack in Katana. |
Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
Technically not the same - Barrage used to be weaker than Energy Punch before it was changed, while Broadsword and Katana have had it I'm pretty sure since the game first launched.
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It's not always about how much damage it does in one hit, it is quite frequently how much damage it does in how much time.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I'm aware of the history of Barrage. That does not change the fact that it is another set with the first attack being stronger and slower than the second.|
Originally Posted by Rebel_Scum
Technically not the same - Barrage used to be weaker than Energy Punch before it was changed, while Broadsword and Katana have had it I'm pretty sure since the game first launched.
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The developers intentionally put a stronger attack first. In a set where it mattered. Where some people have no choice.
It's entirely possible that they put Hack before Slash in an attempt to differentiate Broadsword from Katana. Broadsword hits harder and is slower than Katana. So they put the attack that hits harder and is slower first.
The icons are wrong, sure. But that's not a problem unique to Broadsword and there's a reason Vanden has that signature. It doesn't look like that's going to be resolved any time soon.
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That comes into conflict with the cottage rule which also encompasses changing power order as well as changing the effects of powers. The devs most likely had that in mind when deciding not to swap the powers' orders.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I'm aware of the history of Barrage. That does not change the fact that it is another set with the first attack being stronger and slower than the second.
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| It's entirely possible that they put Hack before Slash in an attempt to differentiate Broadsword from Katana. |
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| Broadsword hits harder and is slower than Katana. So they put the attack that hits harder and is slower first. |
Don't Slash and Hack still have swapped out power icons? Last I checked, Hack had the "minor damage" icon similar to Brawl while Slash had the "moderate damage" icon. I've mixed the two powers up in the past because of that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hello!
Something I've noticed is that the first two powers in the Broadsword set are out of order and have been since I started playing.
In every other powerset, the weakest power is first, and second weakest is second, etc.
In broadsword, the weakest power, Slash, is second and the second weakest power, Hack, is first. This is the only powerset I've seen that has this shuffled power. Even the icon for Slash suggests it;s a bigger power than Hack, which it isn't. It's very strange.
I can't tell if this a bug or intentional. For consistency, I'd suggest the two abilities swapping places in the powerset. What do you folks think?