So, kind of like some additional animation options for Super Strength or Martial Arts?
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Yeah, alternate animations for super strength or martial arts would be the way to go.
It wouldn't work.
The problem is that there is no direct correlation between what the player does and what the enemy does. All of the player's actions are contained in a bubble, as are all of the enemy animations.
Basically, what this means is that when you punch an enemy, you punch a bubble.
This also makes 1 to 1 attacks pretty much impossible to pull off. Things like...
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What happens when you make an ultra-small character and kick a normal sized enemy? You'd probably kick them in the balls.|
Gut Buster A kicking attack straight into your opponents gut. For moderate smashing damage |
What happens when you make an ultra-small character and kick a giant sized enemy? You'd probably just kick them in the shins.
What happens when you make an ultra-huge character and kick a normal sized enemy? You'd probably smack their chest in.
What happens when you make an ultra-huge character and kick a small sized enemy? You'd either crush their head with the kick or not even hit them at all.
No longer a gut buster is it. It's just a generic kick that changes placement based on the size of the player and the enemy.
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Eye Poke A quick poke into your opponents eyes for minor lethal damage. Eye Poke blinds your foe and reduces their accuracy. |
Or ultra-huge character? Hitting nothing?
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Now, you aren't the first person to bring this type of question up, and in relation to this power set. Case in point:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...14&postcount=6
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The case in point here is the Martial Arts Animation. A significant number of players request a "proper street fighting / dirty fighting" variation of the Martial Arts set. The reality is, the game's engine does not handle model to model interaction. In the interests of computational performance and network performance, all interactions are based on a bubble. All objects animate within their bubble without regard to what animations outside that bubble are doing. The reality is, a dirty fighting animation set that does stuff like kicks to the shin, punches to the groin, shoulder impacts, or the like, will never work without a completely new system to determine attack placement against target scaling. Such a system would send the base processing requirements on an arc associated more with Space Shuttles than computer games, neverminding network bandwidth requirements. There are very good reasons that most network oriented games try to limit the number of models than have an effect on one another. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...32&postcount=7
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Mouse driven interaction isn't a solution either. Currently in the game objects that can be interacted with by the mouse, such as glowing boxes, computer panels, train doors, and the like have a three dimensional depth and are surrounded in a bubble. Why? Network latency. In terms of processing time and network transmission, it is much easier and much less performance expensive to create a bubble effect that can be clicked on and simply change the object rendered inside of that bubble effect. The bubble effect on objects effectively makes mouse-driving mini-games impossible. Mouse driven effects are only given full precision for certain portions of the User-interface that are localized on the user's client and don't require transmission back to the server. E.G. selecting a text field in the Auction House Interface, interacting with the options menu, or clicking in the text box. None of those mouse movements or clicks have to be transmitted back to the server, although they can create events that ARE transmitted back to the server. There IS a difference. |
I once suggested a 'Brawler' power set, but not with one to one animations. More like MA with higher recharge times and endurance usage and more damage. Think the Broadsword to MA's Katana. It would also be fist based power set meant to represent a non-super person's strength and fighting ability (IE no lifting up a piece of concrete or causing a small earthquake) and less formal training than MA. Something like this really:
Elbow Smash: (Moderate Smashing, Minor Stun) Smashes the enemy with an elbow.
Cross Punch: (High Damage) A left or right cross Punch.
Gut Blow: (Medium Smashing, Medium Stun) A blow aimed towards the foe's gut. (Assuming a 1 to 1 size ratio. If not the blow will land high or lower)
Focus Fury: (+Damage, + To Hit) Focus Chi with another name.
Hammer Blow: (Superior Damage, Knockdown) Slams the foe with a hammer blow.
Brawler's Challenge: (Single Target Taunt, -Range) Basic Scrapper Taunt
Headbutt: (Moderate Smashing, -Fly, -Def) Lunges forwards with a headbutt.
Spinning Lariat: (PBAoE, High Smashing, Knockdown) Spins in place with the arms extended, clotheslining all nearby foes.
Enraged Blow: (Extreme Smashing, medium disorent, +Higher chance to Crit) User steps back before rushing forwards with a massive over hand punch, putting all their force and weight into it.
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Calm down.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Over explanation
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It's Je_saist....
That was calm.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
I think brawling I think drunken bar fights, throw object (like the grav power random) mix of punches kicks headbutts elbows knees.
This has came up before and I think the devs are too busy with the new slots to add any new powers at all......any.....in the near future.
I think new powersets are definatly needed. Adding an aoe and a pet to each toon you have is cool, but NEW stuff is what keeps us vets around, not additional stuff to OLD toons we have.
Maybe just me though. I admit I haven't read much of the upcoming stuff, or tested at all, but I think from what I've heard the alpha slot is the one that really changes the toon the most.
I have really been craving a street brawling kind of set, like MA and SS in a blender with dirty blows.
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This would be new. But, it would be functionally identical to Thunder Kick. An alternate animation for it could achieve this exact effect. |
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat
Elbow Smash: (Moderate Smashing, Minor Stun) Smashes the enemy with an elbow.
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| Cross Punch: (High Damage) A left or right cross Punch. |
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| Gut Blow: (Medium Smashing, Medium Stun) A blow aimed towards the foe's gut. (Assuming a 1 to 1 size ratio. If not the blow will land high or lower) |
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| Focus Fury: (+Damage, + To Hit) Focus Chi with another name. |
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| Hammer Blow: (Superior Damage, Knockdown) Slams the foe with a hammer blow. |
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| Brawler's Challenge: (Single Target Taunt, -Range) Basic Scrapper Taunt |
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Headbutt: (Moderate Smashing, -Fly, -Def) Lunges forwards with a headbutt. Spinning Lariat: (PBAoE, High Smashing, Knockdown) Spins in place with the arms extended, clotheslining all nearby foes. |
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| Enraged Blow: (Extreme Smashing, medium disorent, +Higher chance to Crit) User steps back before rushing forwards with a massive over hand punch, putting all their force and weight into it. |
5 out of 9 powers are already available as alternate animations for Martial Arts. One is pretty much exactly Air Superiority. One is just Dragon's Tail with a different animation.
Only the headbutt would be in any way different from what Martial Arts already does. The devs are not going to make an entirely new powerset that is functionally identical to an already existing one, especially when more than half of it already exists as alternate animations to the pre-existing set.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
True Claws, but your forgetting that I meant it to be the Broadsword to MA's Katana. They are, more or less, the same powers but the Brawling set would do more damage, take longer to recharge and use up more endurance, ala Broadsword, compared to the faster, end easier but less hard hitting Martial Arts, ala Katana.
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Hard to imagine this, Martial Arts is already incredibly hard hitting ST attacks. A chunkier noise might help you, but honestly if it hit any more damage it'd be stronger than broadsword in every way per attack. Since the cobra strike/EC change, no scrapper primary consistantly eats endurance like MA. (each attack weighing in at about 11). |
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat
True Claws, but your forgetting that I meant it to be the Broadsword to MA's Katana. They are, more or less, the same powers but the Brawling set would do more damage, take longer to recharge and use up more endurance, ala Broadsword, compared to the faster, end easier but less hard hitting Martial Arts, ala Katana.
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Really, you have to have something different (with different sorts of attacks, like AoE's or range or different status effects) or go ahead and settle for the new animations, (and hope they add brawling animations to the powers they hadn't touched yet also).
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As for the bubble talk, If all enemies are still bubbles, and nothing can be aimed, why then can executioners shot ALWAYS hit the head, despite drastic size differences? Something changed with GR, I would just assume it'd be awkward to get the player model to coincide with that, but eyepoke could almost be possible.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
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MA is already pretty close to the top in single target damage, especially after it got buffed a little while back. Any set designed to be slower but harder hitting would end up being overpowered, especially in today's game where you can get ridiculous levels of recharge to the point the slower recharge of the powers isn't an issue. |
Originally Posted by DoctorWhat
True Claws, but your forgetting that I meant it to be the Broadsword to MA's Katana. They are, more or less, the same powers but the Brawling set would do more damage, take longer to recharge and use up more endurance, ala Broadsword, compared to the faster, end easier but less hard hitting Martial Arts, ala Katana.
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Katana and Broadsword actually USED to be identical. It was the same set with different swords, because back then they hadn't even considered weapon customization yet. Katana was given a set of entirely different animations because a lot of people complained that it wasn't at all like a real katana would be used.
The faster/harder-hitting difference didn't exist until they changed it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
From an aesthetics standpoint, I dont think *all* the melee heroes styles will be satified untill the dev's just say: "Here are all the animations, with their animation times, a standardized damage, and an associated point value (which would change as you try to change animation time(speed)/end/damage/recharge values/secondary effects), You have x points - mix and match. Oh, and take confront and a +dam/+acc power. kthxbai." This will never happen. Thus, in this game, we have to make due with what sets we have and how they work.
Animation options what would encompass headbutts (looks kinda like the shaking the Mooks do when they shakedown some citizen), elbows/knees, and spinning non-aoe would be nice options tho. Won't happen.
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You can also do something like this with claws.... using some of the smaller claw options and larger gloves, you essentually appear to be punching with spiked gloves instead of slashing with blades.|
Originally Posted by Werner
So, kind of like some additional animation options for Super Strength or Martial Arts?
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I think stylistic themed power sets like the suggested "brawling" really fit better as an "alternete animations" rather then a powerset change. New powersets are generally reserved for something that has a unique mechanic like kinetic melee has power siphon or dual pistols has swap ammo.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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This made me curious... so I tried it.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
You can also do something like this with claws.... using some of the smaller claw options and larger gloves, you essentually appear to be punching with spiked gloves instead of slashing with blades.
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turned out... weird.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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Samurai + Boxing Gloves|
Originally Posted by Elegost
This made me curious... so I tried it.
turned out... weird. |
Color can't match unless black.
There's a reason it was weird.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
It wouldn't be as kick and sort of martial art orientated as Martial Arts, I see it more like a kind of, Indiana Jones kind of fighting effort.
Hook Punch
A right or left hook for minor smashing damage.
Gut Buster
A kicking attack straight into your opponents gut. For moderate smashing damage.
Eye Poke
A quick poke into your opponents eyes for minor lethal damage. Eye Poke blinds your foe and reduces their accuracy.
Anger Surge
Unleashing your anger greatly increases the amount of damage you deal for a few seconds, and increases your chance to hit slightly.
Face Breaker
A brutal headbutt straight into your opponents face for high damage that will usually knock your foe down.
Confront
Challenges a foe to attack you. Useful for pulling an enemy off a weaker hero.
Sucker Punch
You point in the opposite direction diverting your foes attention, when he turns back you deliver a crushing punch to the side of his head. Which can stun your foe momentarily.
Frenzy Blows
You go round in a frenzy viciously kicking and punching at all nearby enemies for moderate smashing damage.
Head Smasher
You grab the targeted enemy and with all your strength shove his head into the floor.
Brawling. What ya reckon?