What's your Primary?
Fire Armor. Stemmed from a sudden urge to Ice Patch Burn.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
You might consider Frost. Yes, it does more damage than Ice Sword, but it's DoT, and with a set like Fire, you've got a lot of DoT already, I think the burst damage of Ice Sword has a better chance of being more useful.
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Frost is your best (or 2nd best) attack over the long run. Again, please see my sig for why I consider Frost your most unskippable power. If you're looking for burst damage or trying to solo Pylons or whatever, you need to reroll out of Ice Melee altogether.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
You might consider Frost. Yes, it does more damage than Ice Sword, but it's DoT, and with a set like Fire, you've got a lot of DoT already, I think the burst damage of Ice Sword has a better chance of being more useful.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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/seconding the dropping of GIS. It's DPA is pretty bad. Ice Sword is better all around. /Ice Melee isn't going to be about putting up large numbers every once in a while, it's about putting up smaller numbers all the time. Between Frozen Fists (for bruising), Ice Sword, and Frozen Touch, you've got your single-target attacks fairly set. Then frost and Frozen Aura for your AoE. GIS is skippable.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Frost is your best (or 2nd best) attack over the long run. Again, please see my sig for why I consider Frost your most unskippable power. If you're looking for burst damage or trying to solo Pylons or whatever, you need to reroll out of Ice Melee altogether.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
But with Fiery Aura as a Primary, he's got no shortage of Damage and there are more IO sets available for single target attacks than there are for Targeted AoEs.
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But when you're using Ice Patch for Damage mitigation, you can't use Frozen Touch on a boss.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Between Frozen Fists (for bruising), Ice Sword, and Frozen Touch, you've got your single-target attacks fairly set.
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Yes you can. Frozen Touch is still your best attack. Having the one boss attack you while the minions flop around is fine. Frozen Touch's hold effect is just over 2 seconds short of it's base recharge. You can easily stack the hold for short periods, and sometimes perma depending on how much +recharge you have. If you take one of the Ancillary Pool holds? Then you're absolutely fine.|
Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
But when you're using Ice Patch for Damage mitigation, you can't use Frozen Touch on a boss.
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Meanwhile, you can be using Frost to take out a large portion of the spawn. As a Fire/Ice Tanker, you're going to be focusing on killing lots of minions and lieuts anyways.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I'd rather have the boss flop around too. And yes, when you get an ancillary Hold, you can definitely stack them, but you do have to go from 28 to 41 with just Freezing Touch.
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Interesting break down. So, both of the sword attacks suck, but Greater Ice Sword sucks more. Maybe I'll just do something crazy and skip them both. |
Originally Posted by dave_p
GIS. See my sig for detailed explanations.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Just read your guide. Why is Greater Ice Sword so bad as a lvl 32 power? I know Dominator's version got changed to Ice Slash and it activates faster.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
GIS. See my sig for detailed explanations.
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Did you read the DPA table? GIS's DPA is miserable, worse than any other "big" attack in the game. Worse than your "weaker" IS (FF is worse still, another problem altogether, but you're forced to take FF and it gets bruising). Worse than any epic blast (w/no range to boot). What exactly is the upside of GIS other than a set mule (which, btw, I'd rather use Brawl or Boxing for)?|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Just read your guide. Why is Greater Ice Sword so bad as a lvl 32 power? I know Dominator's version got changed to Ice Slash and it activates faster.
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Responding to other posts...
Ice Sword is really not skippable. Unless you have an insane recharge and can spam FT & your epic blast, or wanna just do AoE damage + bruising all day long. I wish it weren't so, but... well, I did admit that Ice Melee is horrific at ST damage.
FT... if you're not using this as your boss "killer", well, I guess Burn is available, but damn, it's gonna take a while for any hard targets to go down w/o your best DPA attack. And as Aett points out, grab an epic hold and insta-hold that boss who's not flopping. Anyway, one boss not flopping isn't bothering any of my tankers.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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If I'm fighting bosses in a mission, I'm either on a team or managed to run into a Malta spawn with the power to cheat a boss into my solo mission (stupid Haxules Lts).|
Originally Posted by dave_p
Ice Sword is really not skippable. Unless you have an insane recharge and can spam FT & your epic blast, or wanna just do AoE damage + bruising all day long. I wish it weren't so, but... well, I did admit that Ice Melee is horrific at ST damage.
FT... if you're not using this as your boss "killer", well, I guess Burn is available, but damn, it's gonna take a while for any hard targets to go down w/o your best DPA attack. And as Aett points out, grab an epic hold and insta-hold that boss who's not flopping. Anyway, one boss not flopping isn't bothering any of my tankers. |
EDIT: Silly me, overlooking the meaning of FT abbreviation. Yah, I'm planning on focussing on AoE.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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I went 16 levels fighting bosses without Freezing Touch. I upgraded from lieutenants after I got a couple slots in Air Superiority.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
FT... if you're not using this as your boss "killer", well, I guess Burn is available, but damn, it's gonna take a while for any hard targets to go down w/o your best DPA attack. And as Aett points out, grab an epic hold and insta-hold that boss who's not flopping. Anyway, one boss not flopping isn't bothering any of my tankers.
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I suppose the reason I'm not terribly reliant upon Freezing Touch is the fact that I've got the Blackwand and Sands of Mu, and I'm very reliant upon knock-down for damage mitigation.
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I should point out, I'm speaking from a lvl 50 perspective. If you're relying on your vet attacks at 50 (other than for the odd ranged attack or Rage crashes), I think you might have some other issues. While leveling, if you're over-reliant on IP, I can see being a bit hesitant on using FT on a tough boss. When I was leveling my Stone/Ice tank, I'd sometimes drop all my armors (prior to Granite, which I rarely even use any more, but that's another story), and just fight w/Rooted + Ice Patch and be perfectly safe. On those occasions, I might consider FT on bosses as being risky. A fully mature tank should never be afraid of an upright boss for a few sec tho.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I went 16 levels fighting bosses without Freezing Touch. I upgraded from lieutenants after I got a couple slots in Air Superiority.
I suppose the reason I'm not terribly reliant upon Freezing Touch is the fact that I've got the Blackwand and Sands of Mu, and I'm very reliant upon knock-down for damage mitigation. |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Actually, I go over than in my guide under tactics, which was what I thought you were getting at originally. Basically, if you're soloing w/IM, you should fight like -1/x8, no bosses, ignore any bosses that do spawn or combine (just drag them to the next fight, they'll eventually go down), and mow down rows of minions & lts. Boss fights are terrible for IM, and I wouldn't even try to solo an AV, though I could go to sleep next to one and be safe. Likely, the AV would also go to sleep from all the boredom.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
If I'm fighting bosses in a mission, I'm either on a team or managed to run into a Malta spawn with the power to cheat a boss into my solo mission (stupid Haxules Lts).
EDIT: Silly me, overlooking the meaning of FT abbreviation. Yah, I'm planning on focussing on AoE. |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Well, this is a very slow maturing build I'm playing. And I don't really consider it a tank, but the damage is too low to call it anything else.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
I should point out, I'm speaking from a lvl 50 perspective. If you're relying on your vet attacks at 50 (other than for the odd ranged attack or Rage crashes), I think you might have some other issues. While leveling, if you're over-reliant on IP, I can see being a bit hesitant on using FT on a tough boss. When I was leveling my Stone/Ice tank, I'd sometimes drop all my armors (prior to Granite, which I rarely even use any more, but that's another story), and just fight w/Rooted + Ice Patch and be perfectly safe. On those occasions, I might consider FT on bosses as being risky. A fully mature tank should never be afraid of an upright boss for a few sec tho.
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http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...2DE22FAE78E68D
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Wow, that build is... um, unorthodox. Mind telling me why no Temp Invul, Unyielding or Invinc? I mean, I'm sorta curious about your choice of Med pool instead of Tough & Weave, but let's get the big questions out of the way. Is this a concept thing? No toggles?
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
Well, this is a very slow maturing build I'm playing. And I don't really consider it a tank, but the damage is too low to call it anything else.
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...2DE22FAE78E68D |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
No toggle, no mez protection tanker build is kind of outside the realm of the norm, don't ya think? I know I would not want to give advice out based on that kind of build. Fun and interesting, but not a good representation to hand out advice from in the general sense.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Actually, it's lvl 38 power for Tanker. Yikes. People complain about Dominator's lvl 38 VS pet but at least the pet doesn't "hurt" dps. It's been proven that it helps Dominator finish a mission faster with VS than without.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Did you read the DPA table? GIS's DPA is miserable, worse than any other "big" attack in the game. Worse than your "weaker" IS (FF is worse still, another problem altogether, but you're forced to take FF and it gets bruising). Worse than any epic blast (w/no range to boot). What exactly is the upside of GIS other than a set mule (which, btw, I'd rather use Brawl or Boxing for)?
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What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Yes, it's a concept thing. If there were two powers I would never recommend skipping in Invulnerability, it'd be Unyielding and Invincibility.
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I wasn't trying to hand out advice strictly from that character, but there are far more IO slotting options for Single target attacks than for Targeted AoEs, and since the character in question was Fiery Aura, I figured that AoE damage was not going to be lacking at all. However, I will admit that I might be undervaluing AoE damage.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
No toggle, no mez protection tanker build is kind of outside the realm of the norm, don't ya think? I know I would not want to give advice out based on that kind of build. Fun and interesting, but not a good representation to hand out advice from in the general sense.
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Actually, it's a 35 power, but that's neither here nor there.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Actually, it's lvl 38 power for Tanker. Yikes. People complain about Dominator's lvl 38 VS pet but at least the pet doesn't "hurt" dps. It's been proven that it helps Dominator finish a mission faster with VS than without.
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You summon VS and then it provides continual damage. Not the same thing as calculating an ST DPS based on ST attacks alone. Please show me a calc or a realistic scenario (you know, where you have a reasonable gapless attack chain w/o too many FF's in there) where GIS increases your overall DPS, or any other scenario where inserting a long animating, lower DPA attack helps your overall DPS. Or just explain why you think GIS will help anyone finish any task faster.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
If one were inclined to skip one of the attacks? Ice Sword?
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound