City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Am I the only one......

Ascendant

By Ascendant,
Posted on: 2011-03-15 24:34 in Virtue

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
However, I also know how workflows usually work and when "custom" furry NPC's in the D show up in means they had a higher priority for the game's design team than longstanding bugs.
Actually...no. The way game programming usually works is you are divided into Teams and for each release cycle your team has a certain focus or set of related tasks. Team Bug Fix has a certain set of priorities, which I can promise at least the top couple are exploits that could cause serious problems and no one either knows about or the devs won't mention until they are fixed, and Team Flavor has a completely other list of priorities and tasks. Just because Team Flavor's 27th priority task got done and Team Bug Fix's 5th didn't doesn't mean that what did get finished was 'more important'.

 

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Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post
...that thinks that with all the long standing bugs in this game....adding a few furry NPC's to the club 55 and Pocket D maps and fixing one veteran power bug is kinda a slap in the face?
really? The time difference in that is what? A day's work?

The question should be, does the NPC look good, or does it look like the Merit Vendors, when it comes to outfits?

BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
The question should be, does the NPC look good, or does it look like the Merit Vendors, when it comes to outfits?
Hey, they have to look better than just recycling mob models. I mean, first time I walked into the D I started pounding 1 and wondering why I couldn't hit that.*



* I am terrible at jokes. I am so, so very sorry...

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Then let me put this another way, to reply to both of you: Seeing stuff like the furry NPCs is disappointing when there are other things that could be worked on. I fully understand that the guy who makes NPCs isn't the guy who fixes bugs, hell, I hold a Bachelor's Degree from a school that emphasizes such things. However, I also know how workflows usually work and when "custom" furry NPC's in the D show up in means they had a higher priority for the game's design team than longstanding bugs.

And don't even get me started on how much **** needs to be done to the Mac client.
I'll do you one better. I have two sgmates and a couple other friends who work in the video game industry. One of them works on an mmorpg. What you just said is just plain incorrect.

 

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Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf View Post
Hey, they have to look better than just recycling mob models. I mean, first time I walked into the D I started pounding 1 and wondering why I couldn't hit that.
Insert Pocket D and 'hitting that' joke here.

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Originally Posted by Warp_Factor View Post
I'll do you one better. I have two sgmates and a couple other friends who work in the video game industry. One of them works on an mmorpg. What you just said is just plain incorrect.
I worked on a small-scale MMO during my college days. Now while that doesn't compare to a major MMO these days, myself and the six other gents working on it made sure to fix bugs as soon as they came about. While what I said isn't incorrect I suppose it's just how P Studios does things.

I'll ask another question, since what I'm saying isn't viewed as satisfactory: Were these NPC's necessary?

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Insert Pocket D and 'hitting that' joke here.
Congratulations, Nal. You explained the joke.



Quote:
I worked on a small-scale MMO during my college days. Now while that doesn't compare to a major MMO these days, myself and the six other gents working on it made sure to fix bugs as soon as they came about. While what I said isn't incorrect I suppose it's just how P Studios does things.
Suffice to say 'mistakes were made', then. But you can't very well blame the current staff for not immediately fixing years old problems, given the situation. (Now, fixing new problems, that should be expected.)

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I'll ask another question, since what I'm saying isn't viewed as satisfactory: Were these NPC's necessary?
I'll answer you with another question: Was Praetoria necessary? I mean, strictly speaking. Other than trying to sell an expansion pack, that is. Was it necessary to add several large, well designed areas and quite a few story arcs? Why not just a new tutorial area and leave it at that?

No, the new NPCs weren't necessary. But from a business stand point, hey, "Look at the new shiny! Do you want it?" is a valid strategy. Money made from selling item packs can be reinvested into fixing those bugs, you know.

 

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Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf View Post
Congratulations, Nal. You explained the joke.
So I 'hit the nail on the head?' 8D


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Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf View Post
Suffice to say 'mistakes were made', then. But you can't very well blame the current staff for not immediately fixing years old problems, given the situation. (Now, fixing new problems, that should be expected.)
I suppose. It still sort of stinks, and under your next quote I'll tell you why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf View Post
I'll answer you with another question: Was Praetoria necessary? I mean, strictly speaking. Other than trying to sell an expansion pack, that is. Was it necessary to add several large, well designed areas and quite a few story arcs? Why not just a new tutorial area and leave it at that?

No, the new NPCs weren't necessary. But from a business stand point, hey, "Look at the new shiny! Do you want it?" is a valid strategy. Money made from selling item packs can be reinvested into fixing those bugs, you know.
If that's the case I would much prefer to see content added for the players, not for marketing.

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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If that's the case I would much prefer to see content added for the players, not for marketing.
Right. Because popping out item packs and Issues faster than most games come up with expansion concepts isn't fast enough.

 

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Maybe OP just has something against furries? *shrug*

Either way, as others have stated, different departments work on different things.

Does it suck when the things you want done aren't and something else is? Yup.

But that doesn't mean they're not being worked on. You have to find the problem before you can make a solution, and the solution (or problem) can't break the game in other ways.

I would hate to be the guy looking through all the lines of code trying to find errors. I'd go cross-eyed!

[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |

Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]

 

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Originally Posted by SolarSentai View Post
I would hate to be the guy looking through all the lines of code trying to find errors. I'd go cross-eyed!
Cross-eyed nothing. Coding requires a special kind of very analytical, very dedicated mind. I'm pretty sure most people would go a little insane trying.

...Though every coder I've known has been a bit atypical, socially, at the least. And a few have been downright demented. (Though they were screwed up looooooooong before getting into computers.)

I'm rambling. Anyway. Cross-eyed. Yeah. Let's go with that.

 

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Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf View Post
Cross-eyed nothing. Coding requires a special kind of very analytical, very dedicated mind. I'm pretty sure most people would go a little insane trying.

...Though every coder I've known has been a bit atypical, socially, at the least. And a few have been downright demented. (Though they were screwed up looooooooong before getting into computers.)

I'm rambling. Anyway. Cross-eyed. Yeah. Let's go with that.

I've dabbled in html, javascript, visual basic and C++... yea... coding is a pain in the rear.

It's not something I have a mindset for. Though, on a small scale, if you gave me code with an error I could probably tell you what it was - not necessarily fix it or be able to recode from scratch, but I could say where it was.

And now you got me rambling... LOL

[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |

Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]

 

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Originally Posted by SolarSentai View Post
I've dabbled in html, javascript, visual basic and C++... yea... coding is a pain in the rear.
I've dabbled in C++ and whatever the heck the name of the RPG Maker code is. Ruby? Don't remember. Not my forte. I'm an artist and 'idea person.' (Read: I can come up with great ideas at times and I'm quite the muse, helping others come up with ideas... But damn if I can't accomplish any of those ideas. =|)

 

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Originally Posted by Kai View Post
If you have ever pulled on a loose thread on a shirt or pair of pants and pulled out half a seam or created a hole.....welcome to the world of trying to fix code bugs
Ugh, drives me nuts when people do that. Grab a needle and caaaaaaaarefully sew it back together. (Also quite a bit like code, really.)

 

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Personally, as a programmer, I -hate- coding! Which raises the question...why do I code?

Because at that moment...that when you're done coding...and everything works like a beautiful symphony orchestra...and every little line of code does exactly what its meant to do and every line of code is put in with a purpose...

That feeling is just too beautiful! It really is! And that feelings lasts for about a total of 20 seconds before you go in to add something else, and then it breaks everything...

Most programmers I know, me included, don't program because we love the programming itself. We program because we love that 20 seconds that everything just works! The moment when you realize that you've created something out of, literally, nothing! xD

That probably says a lot about us being crazy! I'm also socially atypical and avoid most people, so there's that too!

 

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Originally Posted by Kiana Wolf View Post
Ugh, drives me nuts when people do that. Grab a needle and caaaaaaaarefully sew it back together. (Also quite a bit like code, really.)
Pretty much. 'Oh, well, this isn't attached to anything, we'll just pull this part that's not working out.....' *breaks six other systems* '..oops.'

 

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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post
...
Because at that moment...that when you're done coding...and everything works like a beautiful symphony orchestra...and every little line of code does exactly what its meant to do and every line of code is put in with a purpose...

That feeling is just too beautiful! It really is! And that feelings lasts for about a total of 20 seconds before you go in to add something else, and then it breaks everything...
Heeheehee... I know exactly what you're talking about there.

I have similar endeavors that carry that same effect.

One being old fashioned cel animation.
Now, drawing is certainly something that you can love doing more than pecking out code and all...
But when you're drawing 12 pictures for one second of animation time and spend hours and hours doing this... It changes things!

However... Seeing those still drawings COME TO LIFE... Wow.
Sometimes performances can even be this way. There is a lot of work behind rehearsing and getting things to the level that a near-perfectionist is happy with... but that moment of the actual performance... it's worth all of the trouble multiplied by an inordinate magnitude, hehe...
But yeah, manipulating seemingly mundane things over long periods of time... but then witnessing your creation coming to life and doing what you wanted it to on its own is a very powerful feeling!

Anyway, sorry... your post was well written and made think on the bliss you speak of!




As for the entire notion of this thread...
Bah... I promised myself today that I'd stay out of such things for a while, hehe...

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow View Post

Most programmers I know, me included, don't program because we love the programming itself. We program because we love that 20 seconds that everything just works! The moment when you realize that you've created something out of, literally, nothing! xD
I do love that 20 second, but I like looking for the broken bits of code some times too, its like a murder mystery finding problems.


----

I can easily imagine this happening:


COH coder: Yes I did it I fixed the collision and spawn locations, no more hidden Mobs..

Everyone in the room 'Cheers'.

COH coder: Now I have to figure out why the player models fail to spawn on the Maps.

 

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Originally Posted by Warp_Factor View Post
Mobs stuck in walls has been a problem literally since day one, seven years ago, and the game has seen at least three different dev teams during that time. Players have been complaining about it for all seven of those years. Safe to say there's a reason why over all that time it stll hasn't been fixed. I doubt we'll see it go away without, as Bright Shadow suggested, a total engine rewrite.
We'd have to witness mobs stuck in walls slaughter Atlas Plaza and a 'party' in the D first before it got fixed.

Surely you all remember the confuse bug, right?

Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!

 

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Originally Posted by Kai View Post
Pretty much. 'Oh, well, this isn't attached to anything, we'll just pull this part that's not working out.....' *breaks six other systems* '..oops.'
Of course, sometimes it is easier to remove a thread and sew the entire thing back up, but it's often a lot more work than necessary. If you don't mind having a bit of awkward looking stitching, though, it's better to sew the thread back in... then sew in a 'support' to make sure it stays together.

Mind you, I haven't taken out my sewing machine in something like two years...

 

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Coding has its moments-- Douglas Coupland likened it to playing with Legos, and I don't disagree. There are immutable rules to the way things fit together, but given enough time and resources, you can pretty much create whatever you can imagine provided you can figure out how to make everything interlock. It's definitely a left-brain activity, but I like to think it also engages the right brain in that you're often called into coming up with novel solutions to what seems like intractable problems.

Debugging, however (which is technically what the OP is complaining about) is almost always a huge pain. Someone points out an error and you've got to go through hundreds, if not thousands of lines of code to trace it back to the source, providing you can even repeat the error in the first place (and there and hundreds upon hundreds of reasons someone may be experiencing a problem that you can't replicate). It's tedious, boring, soul crushing work that almost always ends up being a minor typo or otherwise stupid mistake.

But the rush of squashing that final bug is pretty rewarding, at least for about 30 seconds, until you have to move on to the next problem on the list.

I think that my programming background may be at the heart of why I identify with superheroes, or maybe vice-versa-- either way, once you've vanquished your most recent foe, you've got about 30 seconds of peace until the next crisis shows up.

Ascendant
Now, more than ever, Paragon City needs heroes. Do your part to save it.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ascendant View Post
I think that my programming background may be at the heart of why I identify with superheroes, or maybe vice-versa-- either way, once you've vanquished your most recent foe, you've got about 30 seconds of peace until the next crisis shows up.
Likewise, it's a pretty thankless job. "I fixed a major bug!" "But what about THIS bug? I want that fixed nao!" =|

 

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I am a hacker who has to occasionally code. Writing stuff from scratch and watching it work, yeah, that can be fun, but the truly satisfying bit of my job is taking other people's code and bending, twisting, and rewriting it to make it do what I want ;7

A friend gave me the comment I used in my .sig for years, "Programmers weave a neat mesh of code with a goal in mind, you just jump in there with a pair of wire cutters and a soldering iron...."

 

Posted

You know what else is a slap in the face?


DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!™