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The bit in bold isn't quite true.|
Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
So I'm proc'ing creepers and deciding how far to go. It takes an enormous amount of procs, but in order to slot them all I'd have to sacrifice accuracy and damage. Bear in mind, I don't need recharge. With Spirit Core Paragon, it's perma out of the box for me. And I know it needs accuracy so consider that too. Lastly, remember that each proc fires on some of the creepers actions but not all.
5 procs below: Javelin Volley: Lethal. Procs on Entangle. 10s. 5 targets. Trap of the Hunter: Lethal. Procs on Entangle. 10s. 5 targets. Positron Blast: Energy. Procs on Entangle. 10s. 5 targets. Impeded Swiftness: Smashing. Procs on slow patch and vine strikes. Initial Slow and each Vine attack. Explosive Strike: Smashing. Procs on Vine Strikes. Each Vine attack. If I decide to slot all 5 procs, that leaves one slot for acc/dam. I can put an Acc IO or an Acc/Dam HO. So my final questions are 1) How many of the Procs and which ones do you think I should slot? Will slotting the procs at the expense of straight up damage be a bad idea? Should I not ignore damage, or is Creepers's damage negligible to the proc output? I kinda like the full proc idea, but I'm unsure. 2) IF I GO ALL PROCS, Acc/Dam HO or Common Acc IO? Any thoughts from the more experienced than myself? |
When Creepers got fixed so that things like Targetted AOE Damage IOs would affect the Vines it also meant the PROCs will fire for Vine attacks as well. As far as I can tell whomever fixed it basically allowed the Vine attacks to take Targetted AOE sets as well.
I've recently tested it myself (last week) and have confirmed that Posi's Blast will proc across the board, on Vine attacks as well as where one would expect going on "normal" IO rules with pets / pseudo-pets.
I've mine slotted with the Impeded Swiftness and Posi Blast. In a single casting vs a test bed of attackless +1x8 AE dummies I got a grand total of 78 PROC hits. 54 Posi Blast and 24 Impeded Swiftness.
I haven't tested with the other 3 PROCs however, I had to slot for Acc, Recharge and Damage instead (1 Acc/Dam HO, 2 Dam/Recharge IOs and a common Recharge IO along with the 2 procs)
Very interesting. I remember creepers being fixed at some point, but at the time i wasnt interested in plants so i didnt know what happened. That changes things then. Thats a huge chance for procing. Thanks for the info
A few more questions and clarifications.
1) Since TAoE sets apply to vine attacks now, is this across the board? I.E. does the Hunter proc apply to vine attacks too? Or is the distinction now (in creepers as of i14, i15 apparently) that if a particular component does immob, then immob proc applies. If it does dmg (now TAoE or ST), then dmg procs apply. Does this mean that the Hunter proc still doesn't apply to Vine attacks since there is no immob attached there?
2) is the creepers pet buffable by Fulcrum shift, AM, leadership, etc? Any plant/kins out there to shed light? If so, are just the vines that are present buffable and the underlying pet that casts entangle not buffable?
I did some board research the other day on this topic and threads seemed to suggest that the proc with most bang-for-your-buck is Impeded Swiftness Chance of Smashing, as it could proc in all 3 "options" with creepers, the initial summon, the patch, and then each vine's attack.
I slotted my Creepers with 2 Acc/Dmg Hami-Os, 2 recharge IOs, and the impeded swiftness proc. Seems to work well.
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Originally Posted by Granite Agent
I did some board research the other day on this topic and threads seemed to suggest that the proc with most bang-for-your-buck is Impeded Swiftness Chance of Smashing, as it could proc in all 3 "options" with creepers, the initial summon, the patch, and then each vine's attack.
I slotted my Creepers with 2 Acc/Dmg Hami-Os, 2 recharge IOs, and the impeded swiftness proc. Seems to work well. |
This board information is slightly out of date though, the fix to creepers a while back means Posi's Blast will also PROC as often as it.*
@Little_Whorn : I've no real idea of those two. I suspect the Vines are buffable (I accidentally gave one Adrenal Boost during the week) for the 15 seconds or so they live if you Fulc Shift when they're waving about but haven't tested it. I'll try it later with Fortitude to see if I can raise a Vines damage by Forting it.*
I'm not sure what rules the invisible spawning pseudopet follows though, I'd imagine it should inherit whatever damage buff you have on you when you cast Creepers but I've no idea if the things *it* then spawns (Vines and patches etc) would also get the damage buff.
I'll do some testing with a Vine and Fort and popping reds and then summoning the patch later to see if I can figure out if/how you can buff Creepers damage.
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Damn that's pretty sick to score 78 procs. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I've mine slotted with the Impeded Swiftness and Posi Blast. In a single casting vs a test bed of attackless +1x8 AE dummies I got a grand total of 78 PROC hits. 54 Posi Blast and 24 Impeded Swiftness. I haven't tested with the other 3 PROCs however, I had to slot for Acc, Recharge and Damage instead (1 Acc/Dam HO, 2 Dam/Recharge IOs and a common Recharge IO along with the 2 procs) |
Vine has two attacks right? One is melee and one is a range. The melee one has a chance to knockdown so that's why it takes chance for smashing?
I thought the range can reduce defense (it doesn't take Defense Debuff set?).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
It doesn't take Def Debuff sets or there would be even more procs you could slot in!
I'm working on this for Madre Nature as well. Here is what seems to be established so far:
If you only have room for two procs, definitely go Impeded Swiftness and Positron Blast.
Javelin's Volley is a pvp IO and is VERY expensive. My guess is that if you can afford it, it would proc like Positron, and be worth slotting.
Word is still out on how good Trap of the Hunter and Explosive Strike are. Are they as limited as they were, or were they 'fixed' also to proc a lot like Posi does? My total guess is that Hunter may be better than Strike if they aren't equal. I hope that someone who knows how much these two currently proc can post here.
If you decide not to slot Javelin's Volley because of the cost, you could do two Acc/Dmg HOs, one Posi, one Imp Swift, one Trap and one Ex Strike.
I have to have one recharge IO in mine, so my plan was two Acc/Dmg IO, one recharge, one Posi, one Impeded, and one Trap.
To the original poster: if you can afford the Javelin, and want to go with all five procs, I would go Acc/Dmg for the sixth slot.
Maybe we can nail down these mysterious Creepers once and for all! 
Rich
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I've been thinking about this and there is one thing about the PROCcing I got which might be distorting the figures. The entangling corpse explodey thing seems to do damage to something other than Live Enemies. It's either itself or the corpse it spawns on (the torrent of grey numbers you always see at the end of a fight even though all the enemies are down). I suspect the Posi is also proccing at whatever targets those grey numbers are affecting.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Damn that's pretty sick to score 78 procs.
Vine has two attacks right? One is melee and one is a range. The melee one has a chance to knockdown so that's why it takes chance for smashing? I thought the range can reduce defense (it doesn't take Defense Debuff set?). |
But it does certainly proc for all Vine attacks too, which makes in invaluable anyway.
I'll have a look at squeezing at least one other PROC into creepers tonight to run some more testing. The Trap of the Hunter is probably the next easiest to test because the Lethal Damage type lets me filter it out easier along with the other two.
Bump back to the first page til we nail down how good (or bad) Trap of the Hunter and Explosive Strike procs are now.
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Creepers are buffable by leadership buffs and FS and whatever team buffs you have. I have a 50 plant/kin and I find casting FS after I have the creepers out works better than just doing FS first then bringing out the creepers. I'm not certain if the creepers adopt any of your active buffs when you spawn them but they sure do get buffed when I hit a mob with Fulcrum. The mob melts fast after I get that going. |
Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
2) is the creepers pet buffable by Fulcrum shift, AM, leadership, etc? Any plant/kins out there to shed light? If so, are just the vines that are present buffable and the underlying pet that casts entangle not buffable?
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Acc/Dam HO. Its base damage is quite high and unless you're tossing around fulcrum shift, a damage IO is worth more than a proc in my experience.|
Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
1) How many of the Procs and which ones do you think I should slot? Will slotting the procs at the expense of straight up damage be a bad idea? Should I not ignore damage, or is Creepers's damage negligible to the proc output? I kinda like the full proc idea, but I'm unsure.
2) IF I GO ALL PROCS, Acc/Dam HO or Common Acc IO? |
I run 2x recharge, 2x acc/dam HO, and Posi proc/Impeded proc. With no recharge needed, I recommend:
2x acc/dam HO
Posi Proc
Impeded Swift Proc
Javelin Volley Proc
Trap of the Hunter Proc
Edit: always slot accuracy in this baby. You really will appreciate it.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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*small bit of copy and pasta...*|
Originally Posted by Jericho
Bump back to the first page til we nail down how good (or bad) Trap of the Hunter and Explosive Strike procs are now.
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I've done a quick test of the Slow, Positrons Blast and Trap of the Hunter procs now in Carrion Creepers
Posi and the Slow will proc for Vine and Patch attacks, but Trap will only proc for the Patch attacks, not the vines.
In a tight casino test map set to 0x8 no attacks the totals I got were :
102 total proc hits. This is a total and utter "best case" scenario.
Slow Proc : 44
Positrons Blast : 48
Trap of the hunter : 10
You can see the whole spreadsheet of PROCs harvested from the chatlogs here
Since the Trap is pretty meh compared to the others I'll switch it for a knockdown PROC in the next few days and see how it stacks up in the same optimal conditional and update that sheet.
Personally, I have Jav Volley, Posi's and Impeded slotted into my creepers, along with full blown muscle and a Nucleo to fill the gap it works quite nicely.
Pulsating death for the mobs.
So I'm proc'ing creepers and deciding how far to go. It takes an enormous amount of procs, but in order to slot them all I'd have to sacrifice accuracy and damage. Bear in mind, I don't need recharge. With Spirit Core Paragon, it's perma out of the box for me. And I know it needs accuracy so consider that too. Lastly, remember that each proc fires on some of the creepers actions but not all.
5 procs below:
Javelin Volley: Lethal. Procs on Entangle. 10s. 5 targets.
Trap of the Hunter: Lethal. Procs on Entangle. 10s. 5 targets.
Positron Blast: Energy. Procs on Entangle. 10s. 5 targets.
Impeded Swiftness: Smashing. Procs on slow patch and vine strikes. Initial Slow and each Vine attack.
Explosive Strike: Smashing. Procs on Vine Strikes. Each Vine attack.
If I decide to slot all 5 procs, that leaves one slot for acc/dam. I can put an Acc IO or an Acc/Dam HO.
So my final questions are
1) How many of the Procs and which ones do you think I should slot? Will slotting the procs at the expense of straight up damage be a bad idea? Should I not ignore damage, or is Creepers's damage negligible to the proc output? I kinda like the full proc idea, but I'm unsure.
2) IF I GO ALL PROCS, Acc/Dam HO or Common Acc IO?
Any thoughts from the more experienced than myself?