Is DM/Inv a better choice for a Scrapper than a Brute?
In general builds who rely on heavy +dmg (DM/, /Shield, etc) do better on scrappers because of their higher base damage. The brute has a lower base because they assume you have fury to shore it up.
What Rhysem said is true, but applies to DM only for this particular combo.
Invul, is more powerful on a brute thanks to the higher base HP, higher HP cap (the +HP of Dull Pain is partially wasted on an IOed out scrapper) and higher resistance cap (Unstop or even regular S/L resists can be wasted on an IOed out scrapper again).
Regardless of your AT choice, both are very survivable alts capable of dishing some serious ST damage. If you want more damage, go scrapper, if you want more survivability, go brute.
It's been a long time since I've played an /inv brute but I didn't think it's smash/lethal resistance plus toughness passed 75%, which is the scrapper cap, outside of Unstoppable. Am I misremembering? If I'm not how is the resistance wasted on an IO'd scrapper since resistance bonuses are so hard to come by?
I'll agree with everything else said in the thread so far 100%, though. I'll also add that in addition to Dull pain, which has been mentioned, Siphon life heals a brute more than a scrapper because of the difference in health. It adds up.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
You can get up to 80% now, with the Cardiac Alpha and PVP IO. Admittedly that's only 5% more, but at these levels of resistance, each % add significantly more. Someone who wanted to push this further could also use the Gladiator (melee) sets, although of course that'd involve less room for defense. There's also Call to Arms that isn't too shabby if you happen to have a pet.
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80% is a good number, as you just need 1 orange insp to reach the cap(and receive 50% less damage).|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
You can get up to 80% now, with the Cardiac Alpha and PVP IO. Admittedly that's only 5% more, but at these levels of resistance, each % add significantly more. Someone who wanted to push this further could also use the Gladiator (melee) sets, although of course that'd involve less room for defense. There's also Call to Arms that isn't too shabby if you happen to have a pet.
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Edit: Just made a DM/Inv Brute build, this is what I would aim for in the long run:
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80 *IS* a good number. Hmm. Urge to alt... rising....
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
I think I would go for the scrapper version based on the higher base dmg. Yes, the brute has more HP, but I don't think you will notice the difference too much with good defense, recharge for perma dull pain and siphon life.
I really dont see how a Scrapper is better damage then a Brute?
Scrapper is 1.25 on the Damage Scale, a Brute is .75 this means that a Scrapper does 50% more damage or in a way a 50% damage bonus.
A Scrapper will start out doing more damage but after 5 seconds a Brute will be doing more damage. Fury is not hard to keep up at all, it builds up to 150% Damage very quick now. A Brute will normally run at an easy 150% which would be 2.25 damage scale. A Scrapper gets the crit damage to boost but its not really consistent. My Math may be all wrong but unless you are fighting 1 mob at a time then a brute will do more damage.
My Vote is for Brute
Basically, all damage bonuses are multiplicative with regards to the base scalar: A brute needs +300% damage bonus to end up at 3x damage. A scrapper needs less than +200%. Certainly, brutes get quite a lot of free damage from Fury - but in exchange, they get much less damage from both enhancements and external damage buffs (The aforementioned /shield and DM/, as well as KM/ and build ups in general.)
Despite a Scrapper's superior implementation of Soul Drain, the damage discrepancy is surprisingly close because Brutes have access to Gloom-- a skill that just so happens to fit thematically with Dark Melee. In fact, most DPS comparisons put a DM brute ahead against single targets because of the massive DPA of this skill.
Then you factor a better heal, higher resistance caps, higher HP caps, and superior agro management to feed Invincibility and the the Brute flat out wins on the /Invincibility side of things. And the there is Darkest Night that effectively augments defense and damage resistance (-damage)...
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The math doesn't quite work like that.|
Originally Posted by Jakarr
I really dont see how a Scrapper is better damage then a Brute?
Scrapper is 1.25 on the Damage Scale, a Brute is .75 this means that a Scrapper does 50% more damage or in a way a 50% damage bonus. |
Scrapper scalar is actually 1.125 and Brute is 0.75, but Enhancements factor into that. Using 100% rather than 95% to make the math easier (and to hedgingly account for people using Musculature alphas) the numbers on pure enhancements look like:
(1.125x2)x1.1 = 2.475 Vs. (0.75 x 2) = 1.50
Fury still operates off the base scalar, so in the absence of other factors, Brutes need about [(2.475-1.5)/(0.75x2)] 65% fury to match Scrapper damage.
And that would be that if we were operating in the absence of other factors. In this case, Soul Drain is a major factor.
Scrappers get full 100% bonus from damage buffs applied to their larger scalar; Brutes get 80% applied to their smaller one. A given damage buff is, therefore, nearly twice as strong on a Scrapper than it is on a Brute. (1.125 x 1 Vs. 0.75 x 0.8) It's why sets with sustainable damage buffs (Shield, for example) are very powerful on Scrappers, and in a set with as permanent and powerful a bonus as Soul Drain, this is not inconsiderable.
Assume a Soul Drain hitting 5 targets. A scrapper will get 100% damage buff off this; a Brute will get 80%. Assuming 75% Fury (A baseline assumption for sustained combat usually used in Brute damage comparisons):
Scrapper:
1.125<Base Scalar> X (1+ 1.0<Enhancements> + 1.0<Soul Drain>) X 1.1 <Critical> = 3.7125
Brute:
0.75<Base Scalar> x (1 + 1.0<Enhancements> + 1.5<Fury> + 0.80<Soul Drain>) = 3.225
And that gap only gets wider as you add more Soul Drain targets.
Now, that said, Invul will be strong on a Brute. Since Invul is a resist-heavy set, the brute's higher Resistance caps are more likely to help him, and the HP buffs will be stronger. With this combo it definitely comes down to whether or not you want to do more damage, or whether you want to survive longer, which is really as it should be.
This sounds like a fun and a very powerful combo. Anyone know if the Brute version is as powerful (if not more powerful) than the Scrap version?