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Hell no. Just...no. Sorry.|
Originally Posted by prophet_8
Add a PvP Booster Pack. This would include Accolades that provide you with buffs equal to existing Accolades. This would be +15% max HP and End, and the click power accolades (think demonic, geas, meglo, etc) for PvP use ONLY. These would not stack with the other accolades. (pve equivalnts: +max HP,+max End, Geas/FoN, Magnus/Demonic, Elusive Mind,Vanguard/Meglomanic) This is generally already able to be done mechanic wise, it would just be a matter of putting all together in a package. Possible add in a Pocket D teleporter as well since people tend to gather there for kickball and other arena events. |
However;
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Change how pvp loot is awarded. Use the existing bounty system from sirens and make it for all pvp and make a store to spend your bounty on the loot. Add more lower tier pvp recipes/IOs. Not everything in PVP needs to be top of the line. Just make something comparable to the level 50 uncommon and rare recipes and their bonus' (think doctored wounds and numina's sets) Remove Heal Decay (HD). Just remove it please. There is no need for it. Revert Travel Suppression (TS). Change travel suppression back to pve travel suppression. This will make Kinetic buff more viable in zones and arena pvp. As it is now if more then one person is attacking you and you don't have an escape power or lots of greens you will not be able to evade very well and more then likely die. Evading is a big part of survival in pvp and TS just make it so you can not evade nearly as effectively. (again this is a major dead horse...) |
Yes, yes, and yes. Please.
Given the recent Rp Gladiators event on Union, I've taken a bit of a reknewed interest in PvP, and well, y'know...it's stil broke.
*Mumbles "Arcanaville, Arcanaville, Arcanaville..."*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Sorry, but your 'Hell no. Just... no. Sorry.' isnt a valid reason
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Hell no. Just...no. Sorry.
However; Yes, yes, and yes. Please. Given the recent Rp Gladiators event on Union, I've taken a bit of a reknewed interest in PvP, and well, y'know...it's stil broke. *Mumbles "Arcanaville, Arcanaville, Arcanaville..."* |
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Valid reaction, though. |
Originally Posted by prophet_8
Sorry, but your 'Hell no. Just... no. Sorry.' isnt a valid reason
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PVP booster pack? No. Even though you're restricting these to PVP, advantages shouldn't be bought in the NC store. Add to that a small PVP population (who likely have them anyway) - I'd rather see *any* PVP related work go to fixing the overall problems with it, not something a minority of a minority might buy.
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Why not? Just saying no they shouldnt make one isnt a valid reason. If you have a better way to get them THROUGH PvP, please share. You may be very surprised how many of these minorities dont have accolades, and how many of those may buy it. Why should you care? Do you PvP?|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Valid reaction, though.
PVP booster pack? No. Even though you're restricting these to PVP, advantages shouldn't be bought in the NC store. Add to that a small PVP population (who likely have them anyway) - I'd rather see *any* PVP related work go to fixing the overall problems with it, not something a minority of a minority might buy. |
As far as devs spending time fixing stuff, there really isnt much to fix bug wise left. Stuff that would be fixed would be overhauls of systems that would take more time then a simple booster pack, but again, why would you care?
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Alright, I'll explain further.|
Originally Posted by prophet_8
Sorry, but your 'Hell no. Just... no. Sorry.' isnt a valid reason
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This is basically giving those with a bigger wallet a not slight advantage over those who don't have it. Sure, it puts them on a level palying field with those who do have it....Players who have rewards for in-game activities that other players could just as equally go and get if they got off their (in-game) backsides and went and put the effort in.
Not everyone has the Accolades anyway. It just seems like a really daft thing to give for a monitary value. Theres no precedent for it.
And you pretty much cannot get to a decent PvP point without playing the PvE game. So...saying you only want to PvP would only hold water if there was an option for an insta-50 PvP Only Character. Which I also don't see happening anyime soon.
And yes, I do PvP, albeit in slightly closed circles in Union.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Ill give you that as a valid concern about the whole money thing. You forget there is still the normal way to get the accolades so its not actually any advantage over anyone else, just an alternate way|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Alright, I'll explain further.
This is basically giving those with a bigger wallet a not slight advantage over those who don't have it. Sure, it puts them on a level palying field with those who do have it....Players who have rewards for in-game activities that other players could just as equally go and get if they got off their (in-game) backsides and went and put the effort in. Not everyone has the Accolades anyway. It just seems like a really daft thing to give for a monitary value. Theres no precedent for it. And you pretty much cannot get to a decent PvP point without playing the PvE game. So...saying you only want to PvP would only hold water if there was an option for an insta-50 PvP Only Character. Which I also don't see happening anyime soon. And yes, I do PvP, albeit in slightly closed circles in Union. |
To do something new, there doesnt need to be a precedent.
There is an option for an insta-50 PvP Only Character, its called PLing and the AE. You can easily go sit in atlas for 2 days and be 50, never leaving the comfort of the AE building or go to PI and never leave the comfort of that.. or RWZ.. or whatever. I think you get my point.
A better solution would tie back into rewards and whatnot for PvP. Make them so with this much needed changes for PvP loot, you would also be able to buy these PvP accolade through that. At least this way your actually PvPing for stuff you will use and its a win-win.
Besides, its not like you would HAVE to buy the booster pack.
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Yes, I do. |
Originally Posted by prophet_8
Why not? Just saying no they shouldnt make one isnt a valid reason. If you have a better way to get them THROUGH PvP, please share. You may be very surprised how many of these minorities dont have accolades, and how many of those may buy it. Why should you care? Do you PvP?
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| As far as devs spending time fixing stuff, there really isnt much to fix bug wise left. Stuff that would be fixed would be overhauls of systems that would take more time then a simple booster pack, but again, why would you care? |
"There's a thriving PVP community, PVP is fun, and this little booster pack might help me a bit," or
"I'd spend $10 on that, but there's nobody ever in the zones or around the arena terminals, so why should I bother?"
PVP needs a(nother) overhaul, this one a bit better worked through. Castle and crew could have had their list of PVP changes and introduced them a bit at a time, seeing how each individual one works (or doesn't) and improved the PVP game as a whole, but instead we had *everything* dumped on us at once. The zones - where I tend to prefer to play, though I run through arena matches with friends on occasion - went from Siren's Call (primarily) and RV being busy to being dead zones. The last fight I had with anyone was around a month ago, and THAT was the first time I'd seen anyone else for months. (And I tend to server hop, so it's not just one server.)
That's a BIG disappointment to someone who cut their teeth on multi-team PVP in those zones from issue 6 onward.
And, frankly, there's even *more* now that would need to be changed - SSKing, especially in the *lower* zones, needs to be removed *from* PVP zones, IMHO. It's no good saying, for instance, that Bloody Bay is for 15-25 when you can have up to level 30 powers available (see: Masterminds with all 3 pet tiers,) or Siren's Call with primary Tier9s suddenly available (which was complained about when people were uisng an exploit, pre-SSK, to fire them off,) or Warburg with APP/PPPs.
There's just too much that needs to be done to make PVP "viable," for lack of a better term, once more - and that's not even touching on base raiding.
Basically, a suggestion for a booster pack for PVP is like looking at a rusted, non-starting car with oil leaking everywhere, broken windows and flat tires and saying "You know what? Some shiny valve covers and fuzzy dice in the mirror would be just what this needs!"
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You can already buy buffs. Some of them, like the mutation one, have pretty potent buffs.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
PVP booster pack? No. Even though you're restricting these to PVP, advantages shouldn't be bought in the NC store. Add to that a small PVP population (who likely have them anyway) - I'd rather see *any* PVP related work go to fixing the overall problems with it, not something a minority of a minority might buy.
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Besides, youre not actually gaining any buffs, it would just make it so that you don't have to do the boring **** that's fun like once, maybe. Like do I really have to kill all those marcone bosses, on every toon I make? I'd sooner pay ten bucks.
Granted, I would agree that I'd rather they spend their time actually fixing it. Maybe then I'd actually play the game.
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The potent buffs of the Mutant pack only last a limited time, unlike the proposed change, and it has the chance to turn you into a monkey.
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Originally Posted by DaveMebs
You can already buy buffs. Some of them, like the mutation one, have pretty potent buffs.
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Where to now?
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Again, if I have read the initial post correctly, This booster pack would give people the same accolade bonuses in a PvP zone as if they had gotten the accolades that are available to anyone in game for free, and that they wouldn't stack with the current accolades if the character already had them. I don't see how this would make anyone more op'd than anyone else. All it would do is exactly what Mebs said and that is remove the monontony of all the defeat badges, tf's etc., etc. Been playing the game since it started but really running every task force for TFC and doing all the defeats for every character that I make to PvP with is just ridiculous, it wouldn't provide any of the hunt badges or anything like that, the booster pack accolades would just be there in PvP. Just like all the other things that happen when you enter a PvP zone and also if I read correctly it wouldn't be active in PvE. Also the arguments that you would be getting something that others may not be able to have do to money can be said for every single one of the booster packs that have ever been released. I have only bought one booster pack and that is the very first one that was released. Should I complain that people have that secondary mutation power or ninja run but I don't and there is no possible way that I can attain these powers in the game without paying for the booster pack. In this case there are ways to get accolades in the game and not have to buy the pack, so really what is the argument here............
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
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| Revert Travel Suppression (TS). Change travel suppression back to pve travel suppression. This will make Kinetic buff more viable in zones and arena pvp. As it is now if more then one person is attacking you and you don't have an escape power or lots of greens you will not be able to evade very well and more then likely die. Evading is a big part of survival in pvp and TS just make it so you can not evade nearly as effectively. (again this is a major dead horse...) |
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| Travel power enhancement (and others that are not coming to mind at this time). Consider removing certain things from being affected by DR. That way things (like travel powers) can be capped at pve standards vs spending alot more slots to get the same results. You can currently easily cap run/jump speed and height in pve, but to get the same effect you have to speed 2-3x more slots to get the same effect when your also trying to get other things in your build (a lot of people use travel powers to get extra knockback protection. That with extra slots on top to get max run/jump speed ends up being a lot more slots then you would if it was not DR'd) |
I don't see these things ever changing. Whether PvPers, or anybody for that matter, agrees with these things or not, reducing travel speed and evasion capability was one of the cornerstones of the PvP changes. The devs don't want people to be able to get away easily. For whatever reason, they feel it is counterproductive to good PvP, and no amount of evidence to the contrary has changed their minds. They very specifically want to slow down PvP, and would most likely be the very last thing to be reverted back.
I think the efforts of the PvP community would be better channeled toward getting other things reverted that would lessen the impact of slower speeds. Getting rid of HD and softening the DR curve on teammate buffs would be a good start. As it stands now, there is almost no way to really help a teammate that is being spiked by a determined and coordinated team. If that teammate doesn't have an escape power, they will most likely be taken down no matter what the other members of the team do to help them. This is assuming zones of course.
I know it would never happen, but if they came out with a PvP expansion with our own dedicated PVP server. Auto level to 50 and you can get whatever IOs from a vendor, that'd be just the most bamf thing ever. I'd probably **** myself.
But in all reality that would never happen.
I think the majority of the ideas in the OP are great, esp a PvP booster pack.
Shameless bump, and for those that missed it....
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Lets all just hope this isn't some PR sidestep on the issue like it looks like.
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ZAM: It seems that for the PvP crowd in City of Heroes, development hasn't been exactly at the level of what they've wanted. Are there any future developments coming along for die-hard PvPers? Nate: We always fix bugs that come up with the current PvP system, and a couple of years ago we made it possible to balance PvP separately from PvE. The challenge is that it is very difficult to balance PvP in a game with over a thousand powers in hundreds of potential combinations, and we have made some changes in the past that didn't end up the way we wanted them to. "Just doing something else" isn't going to make anyone happy, least of all us. The community has given us great PVP feedback over the years and we have had some sound ideas internally, but we also want to find the right solution. |
An interesting read somewhat pvp related... and a shameless bump
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=25399&storypage=1
Personally, I would rather see the rollback of 90+% of the changes and then have it reworked with minor changes, 1 at a time, so the impact of each can be measured accuratly.
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Well I totally sympathize with you, the odds of that happening are like getting a blizzard in Hawaii..|
Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Personally, I would rather see the rollback of 90+% of the changes and then have it reworked with minor changes, 1 at a time, so the impact of each can be measured accuratly.
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/bump
So this dead horse needs to be beat on more. So instead of rewriting 90% of what has already been written, please read these three posts and then refer back here....
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130423
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=121077
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=122744
Now overall a few things asked for /bugged in these topics have been add and fixed but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done overall to make the experience more enjoyable.
So a few things to add onto and stress a bit more what was requested here already:
Add a PvP Booster Pack. This would include Accolades that provide you with buffs equal to existing Accolades. This would be +15% max HP and End, and the click power accolades (think demonic, geas, meglo, etc) for PvP use ONLY. These would not stack with the other accolades. (pve equivalnts: +max HP,+max End, Geas/FoN, Magnus/Demonic, Elusive Mind,Vanguard/Meglomanic) This is generally already able to be done mechanic wise, it would just be a matter of putting all together in a package. Possible add in a Pocket D teleporter as well since people tend to gather there for kickball and other arena events.
Change how pvp loot is awarded. Use the existing bounty system from sirens and make it for all pvp and make a store to spend your bounty on the loot.
Add more lower tier pvp recipes/IOs. Not everything in PVP needs to be top of the line. Just make something comparable to the level 50 uncommon and rare recipes and their bonus' (think doctored wounds and numina's sets)
Remove Heal Decay (HD). Just remove it please. There is no need for it.
Revert Travel Suppression (TS). Change travel suppression back to pve travel suppression. This will make Kinetic buff more viable in zones and arena pvp. As it is now if more then one person is attacking you and you don't have an escape power or lots of greens you will not be able to evade very well and more then likely die. Evading is a big part of survival in pvp and TS just make it so you can not evade nearly as effectively. (again this is a major dead horse...)
Diminishing Returns (DR). Over the past year or so people have gotten used to this. Overall it was bound to happen. There are still tweaks that need to be made though I think. Refer back to the links at top for better in-depth look at it or call up the stats guru...
Travel power enhancement (and others that are not coming to mind at this time). Consider removing certain things from being affected by DR. That way things (like travel powers) can be capped at pve standards vs spending alot more slots to get the same results. You can currently easily cap run/jump speed and height in pve, but to get the same effect you have to speed 2-3x more slots to get the same effect when your also trying to get other things in your build (a lot of people use travel powers to get extra knockback protection. That with extra slots on top to get max run/jump speed ends up being a lot more slots then you would if it was not DR'd)
Global PvP Resists. Please add an option in arena to turn this off. That would mean separating it from the DR off option that already is there.
New Arena Maps. Please add new maps. Right now there is a decent variety but nothing besides the cage match map has been added in a very long time. A block off of Founder's Falls or Boomtown or something like that would be great. Just in general more maps.
Add a maplist. Make it so you can add and remove maps from the random option to choose from in arena. Random is still used and nice, but generally people will reset any arena match that ends up on cage match, and in larger matches, office, and sometimes caves. It would be great to be able to remove or add them to the random list so you wouldn't have to reset out of that.
So that is all I got for now. Feel free to add any comments or suggestions as well.