Please remove Pet Collision from ALL players
By
Carnifax_NA,
Posted on: 2011-02-15 19:36 in Suggestions and Ideas
I want pets to just count as phase through, as well. For the reason given above, and for a secondary RP reason, in that I hate positioning pets and then have people maigcally shunt them around by coming within two feet of them. Major annoyance.
But yeah, getting stuck on my own pets while in combat, especially in the sewer choke points and the like, is a real pain.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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+1. I also want a rooting/self immob power on the pets when you tell them to move to a spot, instead of taking off down a hall to brawl some random mob, the pets will actually stay where you put them.
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STAY! MEANS! STAY!|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
+1. I also want a rooting/self immob power on the pets when you tell them to move to a spot, instead of taking off down a hall to brawl some random mob, the pets will actually stay where you put them.
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Ye gods, Stay is the most broken command ever! I was trying to use it on the ITF last night to make sure my pets would stay the hell out of melee.
Stay and set to aggressive, right? That'll make them do that!
No...no it won't. They fire one shot then blimble off into melee range again.
Ok, Stay and Defensive, right? That'll-
.....
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Or, in short...
Masterminds want to have better control over their pets... you know, the whole purpose of the AT in the first place?
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Yup. I honestly swear I might as well have Controller pets, for all the listening the little sods actually do.
Stay and go aggressive! They don't stay.
Follow me! They do so briefly, then charge off on their own agenda
Go back to Defensive! It takes them about five solid shots to actually realise they need to fire back.
Go to there! They take a bloody age to break off and spaz-twitch there way there. Badly.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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All of that stuff leads into the problem with Pet AI in general. A /Devices Blaster has one mobile pet, the gattling drone, and once the little guy is summoned and sees a target he'll zip off into melee range despite HAVING NO MELEE ATTACK. He has only one attack, his little gattling burst, but the little twerp NEEDS to use it at point blank range for some reason.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yup. I honestly swear I might as well have Controller pets, for all the listening the little sods actually do.
Stay and go aggressive! They don't stay. Follow me! They do so briefly, then charge off on their own agenda Go back to Defensive! It takes them about five solid shots to actually realise they need to fire back. Go to there! They take a bloody age to break off and spaz-twitch there way there. Badly. |
Something somewhere in the Pet AI got borked. The little gattling drone didn't use to rush into melee, he'd hover right with you and pelt the enemy. If the enemy broke line of sight THEN he'd rush off to get a clear shot, but he wasn't the suicidal punchy-gun he is now.
My own theory is something got misplaced or pasted the wrong coding to the wrong spot when the Earth Control pet was reworked. I'm not entirely sure, but a lot of the problems went Full Speed Ahead when his attack patterns were altered and his hammer attack got replaced with another stone punch.
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
I think pets were plain derpy before/after that, tbh. I think they really broke out into the HURRer we have today when Demons came out. Everything suddenly seemed to get about ten times worse around then. IIRC, didn't Demons get patched because all they used to do was sit at range and pelt stuff, despite being a heavily melee set?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yep, Demoos were the reason for the AI change. Overall this was a disaster as it seemingly ignored the knock-on effect to every other pet in the game. Whomever did it should be strung up (although he may have already left Paragon Studios anyway).|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I think pets were plain derpy before/after that, tbh. I think they really broke out into the HURRer we have today when Demons came out. Everything suddenly seemed to get about ten times worse around then. IIRC, didn't Demons get patched because all they used to do was sit at range and pelt stuff, despite being a heavily melee set?
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Some form of acknowledgement from Sunstorm / Black Scorpion that the issue is known and they are currently working on a fix would be welcome though. As-is it looks amateurish and unprofessional not to even have acknowledged a widely reported issue which affects a whole AT (and had knock on effects on numerous other sets in the game).
Hey, the last mission room in the LGTF has been bugged to graphical hell since...I think since I10.
I've never been under the disillusion that our Devs do anything fast unless it's totally gamebreaking. I'm not knocking the restults, sure...but 'More Haste and, oh, hey, Speed too!' would be quite nice in a few areas.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Any time a henchman is Aggressive, that henchman will disregard follow, goto and stay commands if that henchman's AI chooses to close in for an attack. That's how it's always been. Henchmen set to Defensive will act as though they are set to Aggressive once engaged, though they will disengage if the enemy goes too far away from where the henchmen want to be. Trying to recall henchmen set to Aggressive or Defensive will not work, as they'll accomplish the order, then return to what they were doing, chasing enemies if they must.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yup. I honestly swear I might as well have Controller pets, for all the listening the little sods actually do.
Stay and go aggressive! They don't stay. Follow me! They do so briefly, then charge off on their own agenda Go back to Defensive! It takes them about five solid shots to actually realise they need to fire back. Go to there! They take a bloody age to break off and spaz-twitch there way there. Badly. |
If you want to keep your henchmen in place, you need to use Passive and direct them via Attack My Target. Unlike when set to Aggressive or Defensive, henchmen will not remain in attack mode once that specific target is down, and will instead return to you or to where you ordered them to stay.
Generally speaking, however, I can deal with ranged henchmen going into melee if it means melee henchmen going into melee. Robotics, Thugs and Mercenaries may be a bit harder to handle, but at least Ninja and Necromancy are not completely worthless.
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As for the original post, yes, removing clipping from henchmen for all players, not just the Mastermind, is a good idea. It would keep henchmen from blocking hallways forevermore.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Except THAT doesnt work either! Passive, attack target; whats the second thing the little buggers do? You guessed it! THEY RUN RIGHT INTO MELEE!|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Any time a henchman is Aggressive, that henchman will disregard follow, goto and stay commands if that henchman's AI chooses to close in for an attack. That's how it's always been. Henchmen set to Defensive will act as though they are set to Aggressive once engaged, though they will disengage if the enemy goes too far away from where the henchmen want to be. Trying to recall henchmen set to Aggressive or Defensive will not work, as they'll accomplish the order, then return to what they were doing, chasing enemies if they must.
If you want to keep your henchmen in place, you need to use Passive and direct them via Attack My Target. Unlike when set to Aggressive or Defensive, henchmen will not remain in attack mode once that specific target is down, and will instead return to you or to where you ordered them to stay. Generally speaking, however, I can deal with ranged henchmen going into melee if it means melee henchmen going into melee. Robotics, Thugs and Mercenaries may be a bit harder to handle, but at least Ninja and Necromancy are not completely worthless. --- As for the original post, yes, removing clipping from henchmen for all players, not just the Mastermind, is a good idea. It would keep henchmen from blocking hallways forevermore. |
There is no way this should be considered WAI, especially since they were NOT this bad before Demons came out. Something tweaked around them has borked them...again.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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"They" being ranged henchmen. Melee henchmen were just this bad, and far, far worse, in fact. Zombies and Grave Knights were almost impossible to get to use their melee attacks, even when you order them into melee range of other enemies, the Jounin would spam his stupid hand crossbow dart in melee range and the Bruiser would only do Hand Clap and Hurl. Melee henchmen were broken and unplayable. Ranged henchmen now are just somewhat difficult to manage.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
There is no way this should be considered WAI, especially since they were NOT this bad before Demons came out. Something tweaked around them has borked them...again.
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Also, I'm not sure what's happening to make your bots misbehave, but when I played mine, they'd very rarely run into melee at all, and most of the time it would be just one errant drone. It's probably my fault for missing it, though, since if a few bots ran into melee, I'd usually run in with the whole group and keep them together.
That's not to say I don't want henchman AI to be fixed, though I don't know how that would be done. But that IS to say that the pet AI changes un-broke melee henchmen from almost complete suck.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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All it needs is for 'Stay' to do what it says on the box, not 'Stay until I feel like it, which is as soon as I hit my third attack, then lolololBRAWLlol!'
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Mine run in lots too, the drones being most common but Assbot sometimes decides he wants to club someone as well instead of staying put. Prot bots like to run in to die as well.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Also, I'm not sure what's happening to make your bots misbehave, but when I played mine, they'd very rarely run into melee at all, and most of the time it would be just one errant drone. It's probably my fault for missing it, though, since if a few bots ran into melee, I'd usually run in with the whole group and keep them together.
That's not to say I don't want henchman AI to be fixed, though I don't know how that would be done. But that IS to say that the pet AI changes un-broke melee henchmen from almost complete suck. |
Highly annoying on the Tin Mage TF because the War Walker AVs have such a huge stomp radius that the bots get constantly flattened because they are running in to have a peek.
This has been on my "gives me the $#!^" list for a while but recently I was on a team with 2 MM's in the tunnels (Reichman) and I was a melee based toon. While im fighting some mobs the Pets run past me to get into melee range of another toon (another annoying MM Pet issue - http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=252692).
When I then kill my targets and go to hit the rest I cant as there is a chokepoint/bottleneck/WALL of pets in front of me. Cant jump over them cause im in a tunnel.
Another issue is being bumped/pushed. Try aligning a Cone attack and just before it goes of a pet pushes me out of alignment so I only hit 1 target.
Or even worse being pushed OFF a ledge/wall/stairs into the mobs below.
I know this can be done as the cars/trucks that push players DONT affect pets (my Demon MM was standing with his pets around him on the street and a car went through them and moved me).