Bear with me on this one. Invuln tank... with no Knockback Protection.
By
BiohazardZero,
Posted on: 2011-02-15 07:37 in Tankers
If you can role-play it as fire or dark armour instead you're already there. Other than that just push for def is probably gonna work best, what doesn't hit won't mez. Sounds like a fun toon btw!
Defiant EU
Quaver: Kinetics/Sonic Defender
Semiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor
Quote:
To make an Invuln without knockback protection, you would have to skip Unyielding and Unstoppable. Unyielding, of course, also contains hold, stun, immobilize and sleep protections.|
Originally Posted by Selenir
Before you ask, yes, I know that this is a horrifically bad idea. I don't care. I've got this idea stuck in my head of a kid who found a magic lamp, wished to be "invincible," but never got any of the Required Secondary Powers which usually go along with being an indestructible superhero. Like, say, being able to "plant your feet" and be immovable. I don't care how utterly unbreakable you might be, having a body which can't be damaged does nothing to decrease your ability to be batted around like a pinball when somebody throws a car at your head... and the mental image associated with that is hilarious.
(He'll probably have blown wishes #2 and #3 on like, an Xbox and a sports car. Which he can't drive yet.) Ideally, I want this character (whose name is the appropriate epithet "Invincibility") to have softcapped defense and resistance at level 50 (and not caring if there's much of a Psi hole - it'd be nice, but for my RP build, not required), and as many Mez protections as I can get without taking a single point of Knockback Protection. I'm not sure if it's possible, but I want to be immune to all mezzes but not KB. Yes, I will have a secondary build for non-RP, when I really wanna crack my indestructible knuckles (wait, is that even possible? is my cartilage as indestructible as I am? OH GOD THE SCIENCE) and kick some butt. What mez protections can I even take (including IOs and power pools, of course) which wouldn't give me the KB protection I want to avoid? |
If you're serious about the concept... delving into the leaping pool gets you combat jumping for immobilize protection. I'd suggest acrobatics for a little hold protection, but it takes out knockback as well. Aid Self gives a short-duration stun resistance effect.
It's a really bad idea, honestly. If you wanted to make a tank without knockback protection, it's a lot easier with Fire Armor, Electric Armor, or Dark Armor, each of which has a full-strength mez protection without any knockback protection.
Basically, you'll be relying on defense to keep the mezzes missing you, because we can't get you any hold protection. I'm not sure how fun it would be to play, but if you want to try it, go for it.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
Quote:
None.|
Originally Posted by Selenir
What mez protections can I even take (including IOs and power pools, of course) which wouldn't give me the KB protection I want to avoid?
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invulnerability#Unyielding
Quote:
| You are resistant to all damage except Psionics, as well as Knockback, Slow, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize, and Disorient effects. |
The Acrobatics Pool does give you major protection against Immobilize (Combat Jumping), and resistance to Holds (Acrobatics), but these are the only places any significant benefit is gained from pool power effects.
If you want to be mez free, you will need to take unyielding.
If you don't take unyielding, everything and it's mother will be stunning you, slowing you, sleeping you, and holding you.
Not to mention that Unyielding also provides a not insignificant amount of resistance. Fully slotted on a Tank, Unyielding provides 7.9% Smash / Lethal, and 15.8% to Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, and Toxic resistances.
So not only will you be mezzed by everything and it's mother, you are going to take more damage as well.
Concept characters can be fun, but this is one concept you aren't going to get fulfilled on most Armor Sets.
Now... you "can" maybe pull this off on an Electric Armor, and certainly with a fire or dark armor.
If you don't take grounded, you can make up Grounded's immobilize protection in combat jumping. You'll be out on Energy and Negative damage resistances, as well as protection against End-Drain...
but neither fire nor dark get any knockback protection, period.
Unyielding provides all of your mez protection in Invulnerability. There is nothing else in game to cover that gap, except for minor hold protection in Acrobatics which will, ironically, keep you from getting kbd. Unyielding is also a significant source of your Resists.
If you skip Unyielding, getting kbd will be the least of your issues. You will get mezzed, that will suppress your other toggles, you will then die, it's that simple.
I second the idea above, to go with Fire or Dark if you want to get kbd.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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That's what I was afraid of. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
Concept characters can be fun, but this is one concept you aren't going to get fulfilled on most Armor Sets.
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I suppose I could do Fire/ or Dark/ (perhaps by making one of his other wishes to be able to be on fire? I'll think of something...), but the lovely "feel" of Invun is lacking there.
Well, I kinda guessed from the beginning that this wouldn't really be possible (or, at least, practical). I'll probably just restrict his "can be knocked down/mezzed" qualities to pure roleplay. I just think it'd be charmingly silly to eat like fifteen knockdown effects in a row, but still be sitting at full health and hardly even noticing that the enemies are doing damage.
...if I could take Dark, Fire, or Elec, and not display any graphical effects, I'd take one of those in a heartbeat and pretend it was just Invuln, heh.
Thanks for the help anyway. ^_^
Go Elec/. You can get all the mez protection you need and skip grounded. You're going for a soft-cap build, so you'd be taking CJ anyway, which means you have immobilize covered.
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While I get what you're saying, there aren't many times cars and large objects get thrown at you. While KB powers exist, there's always the fact that you can naturally be agile, thus, making it harder to knock you off your feet. Agility isn't a superpower. | I don't care how utterly unbreakable you might be, having a body which can't be damaged does nothing to decrease your ability to be batted around like a pinball when somebody throws a car at your head... |
I'd actually suggest getting 4 pts. of KB protection, for a more believable RP character. Yeah, you can stay on your feet, but when something with more mass than you comes your way and hits you, you're going to fall down.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Quote:
It's not a bad concept. In fact, I wish knockback was more prevalent in the game. Even Superman gets knocked around sometimes.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
Go Elec/. You can get all the mez protection you need and skip grounded. You're going for a soft-cap build, so you'd be taking CJ anyway, which means you have immobilize covered.
While I get what you're saying, there aren't many times cars and large objects get thrown at you. While KB powers exist, there's always the fact that you can naturally be agile, thus, making it harder to knock you off your feet. Agility isn't a superpower. I'd actually suggest getting 4 pts. of KB protection, for a more believable RP character. Yeah, you can stay on your feet, but when something with more mass than you comes your way and hits you, you're going to fall down. |
Seriously, Electric Armor is the way to go, if your concept allows for it. Skip Grounded and go.
I play a /fire armor scrapper with 4 points of KB protection; that really does protect against the vast majority of knockback effects. I only really get knocked around by Fake Nemmies and occasionally when two KB effects hit me at the same time.
Go for nothing. Flop around like a fish. I'd think it would be highly entertaining for a concept.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
Quote:
Well, then flop I shall! Though I thoroughly expect whining from people saying "b-but your info screen says Electric armor, you're not invincible!' lol.
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Originally Posted by Smersh
It's not a bad concept. In fact, I wish knockback was more prevalent in the game. Even Superman gets knocked around sometimes.
Seriously, Electric Armor is the way to go, if your concept allows for it. Skip Grounded and go. I play a /fire armor scrapper with 4 points of KB protection; that really does protect against the vast majority of knockback effects. I only really get knocked around by Fake Nemmies and occasionally when two KB effects hit me at the same time. Go for nothing. Flop around like a fish. I'd think it would be highly entertaining for a concept. |
Quote:
My elec armor tank has all of her primary powers colored pure white, so other than lightning field (or whatever its called) I honestly never notice any of them. If you skip your taunt aura (in this case, totally worth it as the concept is great) you should be able to pass as invuln visually (minus the glowie lights)|
Originally Posted by Selenir
...if I could take Dark, Fire, or Elec, and not display any graphical effects, I'd take one of those in a heartbeat and pretend it was just Invuln, heh.
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Fire would work, but its really not there visually, and healing flames would just look funny for an "invuln".
Dark I have no experience with (yet) so I can't help you there.
Whatever you go with, have fun with it
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Well, the wish-granter granted the wish. It's HOW the wish gets granted that you can RP. IO out your Elec/ tank with plenty of +HP and at least 30% S/L Def, and you will be invincible.
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Originally Posted by Selenir
Well, then flop I shall! Though I thoroughly expect whining from people saying "b-but your info screen says Electric armor, you're not invincible!' lol.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
If I somehow decide I want a fifth level 50 with Dark Armor...
I could just say that a Demon granted him the wish.
But then again, 90% of the fun of DA is the multiple mez/dmg auras and Dark Regeneration, so those don't fit the "I'm just invincible, no other powers" theme.
I'm gonna fiddle with Electric Armor and see how subtle I can make its effects.
I'm pretty sure you can get away with turning off the FX of all non-aura powers except in PvP (which shouldn't be a problem) and then just play elec, dark, or fire.
Quote:
Minimal FX are not an option for elec, dark or fire.
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Originally Posted by BiohazardZero
I'm pretty sure you can get away with turning off the FX of all non-aura powers except in PvP (which shouldn't be a problem) and then just play elec, dark, or fire.
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Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
Quote:
MAN, I wish that this were possible.
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Originally Posted by BiohazardZero
I'm pretty sure you can get away with turning off the FX of all non-aura powers except in PvP (which shouldn't be a problem) and then just play elec, dark, or fire.
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So, does this concept mean you can't take self healing powers, or utility powers like End Drain or Consume?
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
I saw a lvl 42 Inv tank missing unyielding. He couldn't tank unless you count running halfway up to a group and getting held for the entire time the team beat stuff out of mobs as tanking. Sitting back unable to press a key from floating around the floor into all the other groups a room has to offer wouldn't count as fun, or helpful, ya might as well go afk at the entrance.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Depends on the graphical effect, really. If I can pretend that the self-healing effect is just his natural unkillable nature, then that's fine.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
So, does this concept mean you can't take self healing powers, or utility powers like End Drain or Consume?
|
Healing Flames is pretty damn over the top for pretending it's just me standing there being invincible though.
Quote:
Not to be a jerk about it, but as fun as the character sounds to you to play, I don't think I'd want him on my team if I'm actually looking for someone to tank. At least not as a main tank. If there was another tank on the team I'd be okay with it though, since you wouldn't be as crucial that way. |
Originally Posted by Selenir
Well, I kinda guessed from the beginning that this wouldn't really be possible (or, at least, practical). I'll probably just restrict his "can be knocked down/mezzed" qualities to pure roleplay. I just think it'd be charmingly silly to eat like fifteen knockdown effects in a row, but still be sitting at full health and hardly even noticing that the enemies are doing damage. |
Getting knocked all over the place isn't exactly conducive to holding agro, since you can do literally nothing while you're flying through the air or getting back up. Can't taunt, can't attack, can't draw enemies to a different spot. If you have no knockback protection and run into an enemy group that does a lot of knockback, your teammates will not be happy with you if you are important to their survival.
If you still want to do it, don't let me stop you, but make sure you warn any teams you join that you have no KB protection for concept so they can find a main tank if it's needed for what they are doing.
I like the concept, it does sound like a cool character, but with the way the game mechanics work he would be poorly suited to the job a tank is supposed to do.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
You think the pet rock was a really great idea?
I first read the title as "Beer with me..."
Then I read it and thought yeah, you'd have to be drunk to want to get knocked around on a tank 
My dark got knocked around quite a bit early on. I was fine with it for a while (man that guy hit hard! Woohoo!) but eventually I found the upper level enemies (Nemesis esp) just turned it into a near-constant annoyance and when my teams started suffering for it I buckled down and got a Steadfast.
I guess before inventions every dark and fire had to go leaping for acrobatics... what a bummer that must have been.
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No worries - I'm not sure I'd want me as a tank either! If I do decide to go this route, I'll definitely have one build for tanking with every protection in place, and another for my silly "human pinball hour" missions.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Not to be a jerk about it, but as fun as the character sounds to you to play, I don't think I'd want him on my team if I'm actually looking for someone to tank.
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At this point I'll probably just make him an awesome Invuln tanker and toss in some roleplay about being batted about, especially if I ever choose to *shivers* textfight with him.
In RP terms, he'd have NO mez protections whatsoever, but even I'm not masochistic to actually want to play something that un-fun.
Before you ask, yes, I know that this is a horrifically bad idea. I don't care. I've got this idea stuck in my head of a kid who found a magic lamp, wished to be "invincible," but never got any of the Required Secondary Powers which usually go along with being an indestructible superhero. Like, say, being able to "plant your feet" and be immovable. I don't care how utterly unbreakable you might be, having a body which can't be damaged does nothing to decrease your ability to be batted around like a pinball when somebody throws a car at your head... and the mental image associated with that is hilarious.
(He'll probably have blown wishes #2 and #3 on like, an Xbox and a sports car. Which he can't drive yet.)
Ideally, I want this character (whose name is the appropriate epithet "Invincibility") to have softcapped defense and resistance at level 50 (and not caring if there's much of a Psi hole - it'd be nice, but for my RP build, not required), and as many Mez protections as I can get without taking a single point of Knockback Protection. I'm not sure if it's possible, but I want to be immune to all mezzes but not KB.
Yes, I will have a secondary build for non-RP, when I really wanna crack my indestructible knuckles (wait, is that even possible? is my cartilage as indestructible as I am? OH GOD THE SCIENCE) and kick some butt.
What mez protections can I even take (including IOs and power pools, of course) which wouldn't give me the KB protection I want to avoid?